Show your 24s.

[Goomphy]

24s can be defeated by 20s if they knew how to play instead of rage at us say "you have 4 levels on us more gear and abilities" imo people should just deal with the fact we are here and we are que- i mean we aren't going anywhere. I love the 20-24 bracket as since it is a lot more balanced than the 19 bracket. Of course hunters need to be controlled. Again i had a warsong today there was only 1 hunter on horde i was on alliance. The game was overall fun no BS burst except from myself since i am a rogue i was killed multiple times though. Alliance did win 2-1. Horde kind of fell apart even though they got the 1st cap.

That's exactly the kind of attitude that's needed. There's zero hostility and it puts focus on looking for solutions, not being nasty and hoping people throw their hands up and walk away.



On another note... It's getting worse in BGs. I'm calling on the administration for twinkinfo.com to make some sort of retraction on it's call for hostility towards other players in a big enough way that people who are perpetuating what was started here, take a second look. I see the administration of twinkinfo.com asking Blizzard to take them seriously and to give them what they want, while at the same time they are working against Blizzard by discouraging play. Why should the people at Blizzard give anybody the time of day when that said somebody is doing their best to make certain people quit playing? I'll make myself clear... While some 24s are walking away, I'm not going anywhere no matter how many people decide to treat me with the disrespect twinkinfo.com asked them to. Throw all the rotten apples you can... Make people hate me as much as you can... Do everything you want to try to make me just "quit". I'm not going to. I've raided, I've quested, but the part of the game I have the most fun with is this bracket with the many good people I play it with.



On to a better outlook... If there's a problem, there are ways to work with the community to fix things without spreading contempt for your fellow player. I'll agree there are a lot of problems to work out, but perhaps the way to work all that out is to seek solutions. There's certainly more credibility with Blizzard when you're acting in a way that promotes play as opposed to discouraging it. There's a real credibility issue at play here. We all want changes for the better, so let's make one by starting here.



Here's what's happening with players.... As newer players or as players that don't have as much gear, they're frustrated when going up against higher level, better geared, more experienced players. They read...



"BoAs throw off low level PvP so much they should be removed from PvP"

"24s RUIN the bracket - Do not heal them and put them on your ignore list"



When people read that in a frustrated state, instead of learning and developing their characters, they associate their frustration with a group of people or two. Instead of learning they're quitting or making such a fuss in BGs that the BG is ruined. That's how it's happening....



Perhaps a better message to send them is...



"Buying a WoW subscription can help you to be more competitive" - You bring business to a company... You bet they'll listen to you better...

"Learn how to handle this that and the other thing"

"Treat others with respect"



You could add a lot to the list, much of what Twinkinfo is already doing... Yeah, it's not all bad. Some doggone good information and people here.



Look, I know why it came to this... Frustration. People want to have twinking BGs back in a way that's enjoyable for the masses. Blizzard hasn't exactly provided us with the best of platforms to do that in so the people at Twinkinfo tried to do what anybody who cares would... They tried to do what they could to change it for the better. I know the intent isn't bad, just some of the results from mistakes. It's the fact that the people here really do care that I'm making an effort to perhaps change an attitude or two. I love low level PvP and twinking. Some of the best players in the game make twinks and it's really an awesome crowd. Maybe we just need to all take a step back and rethink ourselves before we start going in the right direction again. What ever it takes... Let's do it. I think it's worth it.

 

[allahkazam]

I'm of the mindset that I don't think anything is going to happen. I don't think Blizzard is going to look at things and fix them. It would basically favor the people that are on free accounts and give people not paying a dime exactly what they want. I don't think people who have 24s are going to really change their mindset either. There are nasty and spiteful people on both sides of things. I made a 24 because a realid friend and some other people from the 19 bracket were making 24s on Arthas horde side. I followed suit. I played games before that on both a decked out 24 hunter that basically mowed anything down that moved and a 24 with modest gear but no BoAs or enchants. What I found was that my 24 was easily killed if I wasn't with my team and that my 24 hunter should be shelved once I get another 375 honor to buy an heirloom piece I had been farming while leveling.



So there I have my 24 Hotspank @ Arthas - Game - World of Warcraft with pretty much nooby gear and no enchants. I do have the 15 stam mining helm because I really don't feel like fishing. I pay for the game and that's one tiny advantage I'll allow myself. I do have the pants that Saxxon gave me which are good for ret paladins and are 1 stam, 1 str, and 5 agility better than anything f2p's can currently get. Everything else I have as far as gear goes is either obtained via quest or dungeon drop or from PvP honor vendors. Yes I'll eventually get heirlooms. The difference between what I have and 24 heirlooms isn't that great. The weapon will make me hit a lot harder though.



I'm level 24 with 2k honor so I'm not rerolling, but I don't have to fully enchant myself to compete either. I don't need 9 stamina or strength to bracers. I don't need a crusader proc on my axe. I don't need a glove enchant (though I do need better gloves!). While I'll continue to play games maybe once or twice a week (give or take, depending on other brackets games and real life) on my 24, I'll also be making a 20 shaman Jekhar @ Boulderfist - Game - World of Warcraft. I've said in the free to play forums that I'm leveling as a caster with my 19 mages enchanted heirlooms to get to 20 faster and more easily before I'll switch to enhance with unenchanted stuff I already have. I'll be level 20 with basically the f2p restrictions. Since f2p players can get rum by fishing it up, I'm probably going to be rocking a tackle box full of it. No primary profs over 100 though but anything from professions that can be attained under 100 is fair game. Call it the pay to play advantage of having every crafting profession at a level of 100 without needing necessarily to use the slot on my twink. In more general terms, I mean the auction house and mailbox.



I want the bracket to thrive and succeed. Some of my favorite people are the 20s on AP that I see every morning for AGM. It's pretty idiotic for me to log on my paladin and win 15 ABs in a row pretty much without effort and then try to help any 20 on Aerie Peak get AGM, all the while I'm here trying to make an excuse for playing 24s. I won't apologize for having a 24 or for being a MUCKA MAD BOY because we do have fun even if it's fighting an entire alliance team at stables with Bone healing my weak paladin through it. I won't shelve my 24 pally because I don't perceive myself as a big enough threat with my mundane gear and no enchants. I will continue to help those on Aerie Peak who need it, including running any p2p through Stockades or Deadmines for gear on my 70 mage if they are having a hard time getting a drop they need and helping anyone who shows up at Gurubashi to get the AGM chest. All I've ever asked in return is to treat the opposing team with respect even while winning and to not spawn camp or farm the GY in the gulch. I may even make a level 20 xp off tank to queue randoms if anyone needs satchel loot. I'd even help those fishing on Sunday if I didn't need to get it done myself on my 19.



As far as f2p players queueing xp off 19s goes, the ones who will do it anyway in garbage gear are the ones who will never see this post. The ones here that are hardcore into maxing their gear out will be bearable but not exactly welcome. It remains to be seen if they will have any lasting impact for the good on the 19 bracket.

 

[Inkobah]

If you read encouraging fair play as hostility then you need tougher skin. My personal stand and not TI's is that we should be playing 20s. If you think playing 24s isn't an unfair advantage then that really means you already have a 24 and are trying to defend your reasoning. Those who have been playing 20s know that 24s are anything but fair no matter how people try to spin it. Are there bigger problems in the bracket? Yes, I think so. But 24s are not excused from the list.



So there's no hostility coming from me. I'm not going to hate, but I am going to encourage fair play and that includes playing a 20.



-Ink

 

[Rivfader]

24s can be defeated by 20s if they knew how to play instead of rage at us say "you have 4 levels on us more gear and abilities" imo people should just deal with the fact we are here and we are que- i mean we aren't going anywhere. I love the 20-24 bracket as since it is a lot more balanced than the 19 bracket. Of course hunters need to be controlled. Again i had a warsong today there was only 1 hunter on horde i was on alliance. The game was overall fun no BS burst except from myself since i am a rogue i was killed multiple times though. Alliance did win 2-1. Horde kind of fell apart even though they got the 1st cap.

So it's a balanced bracket because no one except for you is bursty? I don't think you understand the meaning of the word.



F2p is balanced and not at all bursty, p2p and 24s are broken and incredibly bursty.

 

[allahkazam]

So it's a balanced bracket because no one except for you is bursty? I don't think you understand the meaning of the word.



F2p is balanced and not at all bursty, p2p and 24s are broken and incredibly bursty.

there are bursty classes. hunter and rogue, of which there are plenty, are bursty. what keeps the burst down otherwise is the no enchants that 20s can get that really boost dps. if everyone was running around with enchants it would still be a mindless zerg fest like 19s has kinda turned into.

 

[Rivfader]

there are bursty classes. hunter and rogue, of which there are plenty, are bursty. what keeps the burst down otherwise is the no enchants that 20s can get that really boost dps. if everyone was running around with enchants it would still be a mindless zerg fest like 19s has kinda turned into.

That's why I made a point of saying p2p along with 24s. Rogues and hunters get an additional 45 agi from just 3 enchants, that's a pretty significant advantage. P2p (lvl 20-24, doesn't really matter) will turn this bracket into what 19s is now, stupid burst coupled with the likelyhood of getting grouped with terrible players. To prevent this from happening, people who play this bracket should do so under f2p restrictions, that gives everyone a more enjoyable gaming experience. Unless of course you're the kind of person who get's off on stacking odds so heavily in your favor that the challenge is gone.

 

[roudy]

got tired of being rolled by 24's on a 20 warrior, deleted so i can roll a 24 huntard and hug my s key, see you guys soon

 

[mookjr]

That's why I made a point of saying p2p along with 24s. Rogues and hunters get an additional 45 agi from just 3 enchants, that's a pretty significant advantage. P2p (lvl 20-24, doesn't really matter) will turn this bracket into what 19s is now, stupid burst coupled with the likelyhood of getting grouped with terrible players. To prevent this from happening, people who play this bracket should do so under f2p restrictions, that gives everyone a more enjoyable gaming experience. Unless of course you're the kind of person who get's off on stacking odds so heavily in your favor that the challenge is gone.

skilled players that group with people they know will still roll inexperienced pug players, even if the gear is identical...it just won't take as long.

I like the idea of a level playing field, but just like a fps, if you take a bunch of random guys on one team and a group of guys that always play together on the other, the randoms are going to lose 99 of 100 times.

Most f2p trials are going to be in the second category, so this still sounds pretty much like 19s to me except now you have mounts.

(i'm making a 20 to see what's its like, but just my observation on the conversations here)

 

[allahkazam]

ok fine once i farm BoAs on my 24 i'll reroll a 20 paladin for MMB. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW

 

[saxxon]

ok fine once i farm BoAs on my 24 i'll reroll a 20 paladin for MMB. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW

no if you are gunna cheat do it right

 

[allahkazam]

no if you are gunna cheat do it right

ok you've convinced me. fully enchanted 24s for me!

 

[Ellindore]

i pay 15 bucks a month to pwn 20s, umad?

 

[Skanktmonius]

If you read encouraging fair play as hostility then you need tougher skin. My personal stand and not TI's is that we should be playing 20s. If you think playing 24s isn't an unfair advantage then that really means you already have a 24 and are trying to defend your reasoning. Those who have been playing 20s know that 24s are anything but fair no matter how people try to spin it. Are there bigger problems in the bracket? Yes, I think so. But 24s are not excused from the list.



So there's no hostility coming from me. I'm not going to hate, but I am going to encourage fair play and that includes playing a 20.



-Ink

The irony of long time twinks calling for balance still dominates my thought process. The entire community was founded upon the idea of imbalance. "I'm 1-8 levels higher than you and have insane gear. PWNT!" I really don't understand the QQ coming from those people who can't seem to accept the fact that 24s are going to be here.



So you can play a level 20 for free? Great! Problem is, it is the lowest level in a particular bracket. It's not a true "twink" level! If you decide to "twink" at a level which puts you at a disadvantage against other people (and let's face it, you chose level 20 ONLY because it's free) then you have to deal with those disadvantages.



The level 20 community's attempts to shun, discourage, and estrange 24s is nothing more than an attempt to equalize their inherent disadvantages. To color it any other way is simply dishonest.



Funny thing is, in reality there is NOTHING the 20 community can do about people rolling level 24s. Level 24s are more powerful, therefore in the end, level 24 twinks will outnumber level 20 twinks. Eventually there will only be level 24 twinks because either the level 20s will rage and quit, or because (more than likely) they will eventually roll 24s as well, and undoubtedly complain the whole time about how unbalanced it is and how they were forced to roll 24s by all the twinks out there who don't care about "balance" and "fairness", two concepts that had nothing to do with founding the twink community, and should not have a place today.

 

[Inkobah]

The irony of long time twinks calling for balance still dominates my thought process. The entire community was founded upon the idea of imbalance. "I'm 1-8 levels higher than you and have insane gear. PWNT!" I really don't understand the QQ coming from those people who can't seem to accept the fact that 24s are going to be here.



So you can play a level 20 for free? Great! Problem is, it is the lowest level in a particular bracket. It's not a true "twink" level! If you decide to "twink" at a level which puts you at a disadvantage against other people (and let's face it, you chose level 20 ONLY because it's free) then you have to deal with those disadvantages.



The level 20 community's attempts to shun, discourage, and estrange 24s is nothing more than an attempt to equalize their inherent disadvantages. To color it any other way is simply dishonest.



Funny thing is, in reality there is NOTHING the 20 community can do about people rolling level 24s. Level 24s are more powerful, therefore in the end, level 24 twinks will outnumber level 20 twinks. Eventually there will only be level 24 twinks because either the level 20s will rage and quit, or because (more than likely) they will eventually roll 24s as well, and undoubtedly complain the whole time about how unbalanced it is and how they were forced to roll 24s by all the twinks out there who don't care about "balance" and "fairness", two concepts that had nothing to do with founding the twink community, and should not have a place today.

It may seem ironic to those that twink to roll noobs but there's other reasons to twink. I personally twink to enjoy the game without the carrot on a stick of end game. So yes balance and fairness are huge to me and I'm not the only one (ie 29s, etc.). Balance and fairness are things I think every WoW player, including twinks, wants...except for those on the good end of the imbalance. Don't try to tell me you've never wished for a class to get buffed or nerfed. That's a desire for balance and fairness.



People can do what they want but I think issues like all rolling alliance, class imbalance, GY farming, and 24s are short-sighted for the bracket. In the end 24s might outnumber 20s but I fear that he bracket will die as a result. The 24s seem to forget that it's bc of F2P that they even get pops. If you take away F2P there is no bracket and no 24s.



If your attitude is screw everyone else in the community and let's roll 24s, GY camp, all roll alliance hunters, etc. it's no wonder that all the non-twink WoW players hate twinks. And honestly I hate that stereotype and I know I'm not the only one. Twinks should not be seen as the biggest jerks in the game.



All I'm asking is for everyone in this newer bracket to be more calculating and think through the consequences of the choices we make on the health of the bracket and also community. As I've said earlier, don't take a dump where you want to eat later.



-Ink

 

[Robertx jenkins]

It may seem ironic to those that twink to roll noobs but there's other reasons to twink. I personally twink to enjoy the game without the carrot on a stick of end game. So yes balance and fairness are huge to me and I'm not the only one (ie 29s, etc.). Balance and fairness are things I think every WoW player, including twinks, wants...except for those on the good end of the imbalance. Don't try to tell me you've never wished for a class to get buffed or nerfed. That's a desire for balance and fairness.



People can do what they want but I think issues like all rolling alliance, class imbalance, GY farming, and 24s are short-sighted for the bracket. In the end 24s might outnumber 20s but I fear that he bracket will die as a result. The 24s seem to forget that it's bc of F2P that they even get pops. If you take away F2P there is no bracket and no 24s.



If your attitude is screw everyone else in the community and let's roll 24s, GY camp, all roll alliance hunters, etc. it's no wonder that all the non-twink WoW players hate twinks. And honestly I hate that stereotype and I know I'm not the only one. Twinks should not be seen as the biggest jerks in the game.



All I'm asking is for everyone in this newer bracket to be more calculating and think through the consequences of the choices we make on the health of the bracket and also community. As I've said earlier, don't take a dump where you want to eat later.



-Ink

I agree with this 100%. Mucka mad boys I hope you be reading this post....

 

[saxxon]

It may seem ironic to those that twink to roll noobs but there's other reasons to twink. I personally twink to enjoy the game without the carrot on a stick of end game. So yes balance and fairness are huge to me and I'm not the only one (ie 29s, etc.). Balance and fairness are things I think every WoW player, including twinks, wants...except for those on the good end of the imbalance. Don't try to tell me you've never wished for a class to get buffed or nerfed. That's a desire for balance and fairness.



People can do what they want but I think issues like all rolling alliance, class imbalance, GY farming, and 24s are short-sighted for the bracket. In the end 24s might outnumber 20s but I fear that he bracket will die as a result. The 24s seem to forget that it's bc of F2P that they even get pops. If you take away F2P there is no bracket and no 24s.



If your attitude is screw everyone else in the community and let's roll 24s, GY camp, all roll alliance hunters, etc. it's no wonder that all the non-twink WoW players hate twinks. And honestly I hate that stereotype and I know I'm not the only one. Twinks should not be seen as the biggest jerks in the game.



All I'm asking is for everyone in this newer bracket to be more calculating and think through the consequences of the choices we make on the health of the bracket and also community. As I've said earlier, don't take a dump where you want to eat later.



-Ink

you are fighting an up hill battle i wish you and the rest of the f2p community the best of luck. word is spreading that trials are capped in 20-24 bracket and things are only going to continue to get worse,even if the mucka mad boys were here or not. there will be no improvement only more 24s on both horde and ally. if worse comes to worse you could just stick to wargames on aerie peak.



though i agree that for competiveness an all 20 f2p bracket would be amazing, it's just not possible while they remain in the 20-24 bracket, why would i want to que on a 20 and PRAY i get into a game of only 20s which is probably not going to happen very often. hopefully blizzard changes this, if trials were put into a seperate bracket i would be on board instantly due to there being no excuse not to be, however if you want a competive atmosphere for twinks I suggest you try out hamcake land.



I disagree with you when you say the bracket will die if 24s outnumber 20s, because trials will still exist and continue to que everyday so there will always be pops, unless trials are put into a seperate bracket, which is what you guys want isnt it?



and if you mean that 24s will stop getting pops because trials arnt in the bracket then all i would say would be "meh" and level my 24 to 29, or hope that the 24 bracket is established enough to stand on its own two feet, if not then id go que on my 19 or even roll a 20 myself, this is a fun gimick for me and i just like to que when 19s arnt popping.



i'm sorry im not as devoted to a bracket in which i would be severely GIMPED as you guys, i guess your all just bloody heros, I suppose your willing to take on a "challenge"(lol twinks r hard) that i am not.



I have a lot of fun playing with my friends and laughing on vent about this bracket.



I also think a full on 24 twink bracket would be a lot more balanced than 19s twinks due to fully experiencing the 19 bracket first hand and being able to compare the two easily, ive seen the moves 24s possess and its pretty much everything that should be in the 19 bracket, but i guess you 20s own this bracket so ill just wait till either its completly over run by 24s or trials have been moved to a seperate bracket.

Until such a day i will continue to roll my face on my keyboard while playing with my toes.



I know i'm just "rehashing" old arguements but seriously you guys are just to much. this is my last big post regarding 24s as i honestly CBF anymore



-Sax(incase you didnt see my name.... above my avatar) aka Bracketruinr.

 

[Skanktmonius]

It may seem ironic to those that twink to roll noobs but there's other reasons to twink. I personally twink to enjoy the game without the carrot on a stick of end game. So yes balance and fairness are huge to me and I'm not the only one (ie 29s, etc.). Balance and fairness are things I think every WoW player, including twinks, wants...except for those on the good end of the imbalance. Don't try to tell me you've never wished for a class to get buffed or nerfed. That's a desire for balance and fairness.



People can do what they want but I think issues like all rolling alliance, class imbalance, GY farming, and 24s are short-sighted for the bracket. In the end 24s might outnumber 20s but I fear that he bracket will die as a result. The 24s seem to forget that it's bc of F2P that they even get pops. If you take away F2P there is no bracket and no 24s.



If your attitude is screw everyone else in the community and let's roll 24s, GY camp, all roll alliance hunters, etc. it's no wonder that all the non-twink WoW players hate twinks. And honestly I hate that stereotype and I know I'm not the only one. Twinks should not be seen as the biggest jerks in the game.



All I'm asking is for everyone in this newer bracket to be more calculating and think through the consequences of the choices we make on the health of the bracket and also community. As I've said earlier, don't take a dump where you want to eat later.



-Ink

Oddly enough, I am not and have never been the type of twink to which I refer, i.e. a twink who was created with the purpose of pwning noobs in mind. I have only been twinking for as long as xp-off brackets have been around, and therefore I have amassed all of my ~30k HKs vs nearly all twink 19s. So in reality, I agree with your sentiments on balance and fairness far more than I let on in my last post. I have only ever enjoyed twinking within the context of relative gear equality and competitive balance (as compared to before when it was twink vs noob.) And I personally revel in not having to farm new gear constantly; when I was into arena, I absolutely loved going into BGs and using my full S3 gear to play competitively, unlike some people who get their epics and stop playing a toon.



I just completely disagree with what you're asking the twink community to do: roll a weaker character just so some who choose to put in an INSANE amount of work in order to play free can be among the most powerful in the bracket. And the sentiment that 20s are necessarily more balanced than 24s is not a proven one; it is an assumption made by those who want to play free. If everyone played at 24, it very well could be more balanced than at 20. The bracket is too young. There is not enough data out there to prove either case at the moment.



IMO time > money. Rolling a F2P and dealing with all of the incredible inconveniences is hardly worth not paying $15 a month (which we all do anyway). Any F2P will take months and months, if not years in some cases, to get BiS. Doesn't seem like a smart individual decision to me. Blizz made the bracket 20-24. Don't try to make the bracket something it isn't.



What does seem smart (though not "nice") is rolling a 24 to have some fun pwning the poor F2P people who are struggling to gear up. And let's be honest, being "nice" and the twink community don't coincide very often.

 

[allahkazam]

i think rolling a f2p 20 in a bracket exclusively filled with f2p 20s would be great.



i think asking p2p people to roll a f2p 20 when there is a good chance there will be other 24s in the bracket is dumb.



if i wanted to be a gimped 20 i'd just cancel my retail sub and make a f2p account.

 

[Sequence]

Sequence @ Muradin - Game - World of Warcraft

 

[Speedyclaxton]

What I know is there's hate being spread here. It might not be on purpose, but it's definitely happening. I was just in a battleground (WSG) with Igork and Origin (but with a funny "i" before the "n"). They all but threw the battleground and did nothing but insult and call the 24s as many nasty things as they could think, while quoting the people here. They refused to heal flag carriers, and participate much in anything. I understand the desire to have a good balanced battleground, but what's happening with the "screw you 24s" attitude that is well founded at twinkinfo.com, we have a destructive force at work that's doing more to ruin the community than imbalance could ever hope to achieve. It's time to stop the hate. Let's act like human beings. Enough is enough. By the methods suggested here by administration, it's the administration and its followers that has become the largest threat and destructive force to the bracket. A nasty but obvious truth. Time to own up to our mistakes and fix it.

This is hilarious