Shadowfang (And other!) item changes!

neverseen said:
As far as the beta goes, booty bay and the arena are still there. Here is a tour of STV from somone in the beta (you guys might know him from his WoW podcast)
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That's good to know. The arena is still there, but is the quest? And is it the same? I havn't gone looking for footage, but feel free to see if you can find some validation that it stays the same. If so, no rush for people to go get AGM before cataclysm :)
 
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this before, but there are some substancial changes to the amount of armor on items. Mail items have less armor, leather items have more armor. Surely this will screw warrs over even more - but wait! Shields have hugely more armor - for example arctic buckler has over 900. Imagine the benefit these changes will give to shammies. Could we see a shammy with more damage absorption than a warr? That would be stupid.
 
lindenkron said:
That's good to know. The arena is still there, but is the quest? And is it the same? I havn't gone looking for footage, but feel free to see if you can find some validation that it stays the same. If so, no rush for people to go get AGM before cataclysm :)
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From what i could see, short john was not in the arena, though it could be that blizzard has not put him in yet at this stage in the beta. But...what if they gave him some new quests along with the arena one, and what if 19s could use them!?1? oh the possibilties. I will try to find out more about this using my...contacts....



P.S arena is at around 4:55 and booty bay is towords the end of the video, they dont have any major changes.
 
depends on rogue build, my alliance rogue has 137 agi with duel LS and 170 with duel 15agi weapons



rogue autoswing attack damage is getting nerfed, but ability attacks are going to hit harder. blizz blue posted on this.



looking at gear changes coming on what is inplace, rogues are losing AP from strength due to it being removed and converted to mostly stam. kinda like what is happening to caster gear in regards to SP.
 
as for shadowfang nerfed, none of my rogues have one, but am amazed at the incoming nerf. i guess this was the easier fix to all the QQ concerning the low drop rate, OPness, rareness, making it a epic, requests to increase drop rate, etc. etc. on WOW forums and having to deal with GM tickets over issues with the SF. blizz pretty well evened out the weapons SF really not the I WIN weapon no more, near the same as the skeletal club



btw anyone ever look close at XP turn off NPC's " Behsten " and " Slahtz " who have also refered to as BiS? both have CB and AB with duel LS. with the incoming changes it appears CB may be a top sword for rogues, AB top dagger?
 
shanker said:
depends on rogue build, my alliance rogue has 137 agi with duel LS and 170 with duel 15agi weapons



rogue autoswing attack damage is getting nerfed, but ability attacks are going to hit harder. blizz blue posted on this.



looking at gear changes coming on what is inplace, rogues are losing AP from strength due to it being removed and converted to mostly stam. kinda like what is happening to caster gear in regards to SP.
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White attacks would get 26.42 damage on white attacks and 21.53 damage from normalized attacks from the agility 2x AP change alone at 137 Agility. I'd say the Shadowfang Nerf softens the buff from the Agility/AP change for Agi Based DPS (Though simultaneously nerfs Strength based classes equipping the SF like Sword and Board Warriors/Paladins)
 
With the introduction of ShS and mut swords MH may become a moot point, I can't really see rogues getting killing spree for going combat. Either way my opinion on the shadowfang nerf is being reserved for a later date. Tresspasser had a good point that the +4-8 shadow damage may have just not been picked up by the datatminig programs since it's not a very common mechanic.
 
Rivfader said:
With the introduction of ShS and mut swords MH may become a moot point, I can't really see rogues getting killing spree for going combat. Either way my opinion on the shadowfang nerf is being reserved for a later date. Tresspasser had a good point that the +4-8 shadow damage may have just not been picked up by the datatminig programs since it's not a very common mechanic.
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Actually, if there is an absence of pro-dagger talents in early subtlety, ShS Swords is a possibility for 19.
 
Conrose said:
Actually, if there is an absence of pro-dagger talents in early subtlety, ShS Swords is a possibility for 19.
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Well since they want to define classes early on and they have defined sub and assassination as dagger specs I would expect daggers to be the new thing, barring combat getting KS of course :p
 
Rivfader said:
Well since they want to define classes early on and they have defined sub and assassination as dagger specs I would expect daggers to be the new thing, barring combat getting KS of course :p
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Actually, they said that Subtlety will also be about daggers, but not quite to the extent that Assassination is. It was only until very recently that "Hemo Daggers is Pro" was a joke amongst rogues.



Speaking of which, Hemo is going to be a potential ability to watch for with Cataclysm if they decide to grant multiple activated abilities upon speccing.



Also, I wonder if HAT will be amongst the passives that Subtlety will receive as a tree bonus, it is a core defining talent in Subtlety and push Subtlety Dagger burst potential over the top by allowing an ambush into a 5 point Eviscerate upon unstealthing.
 
All throughout wrath lvl 80 sub was daggers, that was only enhanced with the hemo change. Blues have said that they want to reemphasize daggers as THE rogue weapon so I would expect to see that reflected very early on in the leveling experience. It really is too soon to know for certain but I know I will be picking up a second AB (I know about dissector and the supposed AB nerfs, I'm just hedging my bets here).
 
Rivfader said:
All throughout wrath lvl 80 sub was daggers, that was only enhanced with the hemo change. Blues have said that they want to reemphasize daggers as THE rogue weapon so I would expect to see that reflected very early on in the leveling experience. It really is too soon to know for certain but I know I will be picking up a second AB (I know about dissector and the supposed AB nerfs, I'm just hedging my bets here).
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Okay, think of it this way, blizzard is doing this system revamp to allow players to get a feel for their builds before they get to level 40/50 when most of these spec defining talents and abilities first become available in the current system. "Now I put my first talent point into Subtlety and WOOT, my Ambushes and Backstabs are ZOMGAWESOME. I am happy, put my backstab onto my toolbar and run up to my first mob after levelling, go stealth and Ambush, woot, awesome it crit, now I backstab.... I said backstab... wtf, stop turning towards me you stupid mob, I want to backstab, zomg, ack, sinister strike, sinister strike, why is my sinister strike so weak? Shit, I sold my sword after learning my dagger was leet, damn... I'm dead. Okay, this spec sucks, I'm gonna respec... wtf? I don't have that much money!? I'm stuck this way now? Forget this, I quit." Backstab isn't exactly a solo-friendly ability, so I see Subtlety providing some 1H perks along with the dagger perks. Dagger may pull ahead marginally especially if you are proficient at staying in the rear arc of a target, but for the sake of the solo levelling experience, unless they remove the positional requirement from backstab, I think Subtlety will remain a Dagger and 1H friendly tree.



Also, during Wrath, Subtlety was more of a "Weapon Swap to 1h when you aren't using Ambush" type of tree until the hemo change.
 
Snappy said:
Guys, I can see people having over 30k mana at level 80.

Unless there bumping down the spell power alot, The people with 3k SP, Thats 3k int o_O.

So. I was just thinking about that.
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My priest already has 34K mana in bad gear.





Edit: oops, looks like I'm a few pages late.
 
Conrose said:
Okay, think of it this way, blizzard is doing this system revamp to allow players to get a feel for their builds before they get to level 40/50 when most of these spec defining talents and abilities first become available in the current system. "Now I put my first talent point into Subtlety and WOOT, my Ambushes and Backstabs are ZOMGAWESOME. I am happy, put my backstab onto my toolbar and run up to my first mob after levelling, go stealth and Ambush, woot, awesome it crit, now I backstab.... I said backstab... wtf, stop turning towards me you stupid mob, I want to backstab, zomg, ack, sinister strike, sinister strike, why is my sinister strike so weak? Shit, I sold my sword after learning my dagger was leet, damn... I'm dead. Okay, this spec sucks, I'm gonna respec... wtf? I don't have that much money!? I'm stuck this way now? Forget this, I quit." Backstab isn't exactly a solo-friendly ability, so I see Subtlety providing some 1H perks along with the dagger perks. Dagger may pull ahead marginally especially if you are proficient at staying in the rear arc of a target, but for the sake of the solo levelling experience, unless they remove the positional requirement from backstab, I think Subtlety will remain a Dagger and 1H friendly tree.



Also, during Wrath, Subtlety was more of a "Weapon Swap to 1h when you aren't using Ambush" type of tree until the hemo change.
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Yeah, backstab for soloing does suck and you may be right, It just seems that they would have to give hemo early as well, they have said time and again that they want daggers to be THE rogue weapon and I am hoping that sub will play out that way, either way PvP is different than PvE and it us very easy to get behind people. Currently spell ranking is what makes SS better than backstab imo and with the new way spell rankings will work I expect to see much bigger backstabs in cata
 
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