RIP Aerie Peak Horde

Klinda said:
As long as those 24s are respectful and generally good people who aren't gy farmers, then I don't see why it's not possible to allow them to become respected and contributing members to the growing AP community.
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Hey KIinda. I know where you're coming from. I know 24s are peopIe too and you want to be nice to them.

I'm not saying we shouId hate 24s. I'm saying that their vision for this bracket is different than ours, and that what the bracket can be is much better than what 24s have in mind for it.

I've seen quite a few Iong-time 24s reroII f2p characters and say they're having more fun. It's more fun when you have to try harder, come up with better strategies, outpIay your opponents, rather than just roIIing up to the efc and one shotting them. It's more fun when there isn't an asterisk* by every win that you have -- * "yeah, I pIayed hard and won, but I probabIy wouId've died if I wasnt a 24/p2p and the other team wouIda capped" -- a Iot of peopIe get that after a whiIe, they start understanding that this bracket is dominated by f2p characters and 24s dont reaIIy fit into the competitive community

There are aIways gonna be peopIe who Iove to be overpowered -- theres the 24 premades who pIant that "fIag of ownership" item into your corpse after they zerg you

But they dont know what they're missing, and the best thing we can do for 24s/p2ps is to try and get them to reroII -- not Iet them continue to miss out on the fun of what couId be a not-perfect-but-somewhat-baIanced bracket
 
I agree with Izac about the 24s. I love this game for it's casual competitive game play. Sure you do get overrun or you overrun the enemy. But the memorable situations are when a fight is tied and your team outplays the enemy or gets outplayed. I am by no means skill capped but learning something or improving your play is what makes this game fun. A 24 will come in to most of his fights with a big advantage which ruins many opportunities for evenly matched fights.

I am constantly conflicted whether to pugmade or pug. A pug can be challenging, but all to often, very frustrating. With the winning team being the one that played less bad. A pugmade on the other hand is great to play, for the familiar mates and coordinated effort, but can easily become a boring faceroll.

I always think when i log onto AP that my fond memories might be clouded by nostalgia but it does seem that times were better. The no farming rule seems to me a as a given, because of how i understand the game. I remember the Cata days when out of 30 players only one was a (The) hunter.
 
Horde chat has a lot of dummies in it these days, but I think you're wearing rose-coloured glasses if you think that wasn't the case back in the good old days, as well.

I feel like there are less serious pvpers and less epic twinks around, but that being said you have to give the new people time to distinguish themselves. Some of them will reveal themselves to be trash, while others, and I have no idea how few or how many, will actually be good at pvp and end up contributing to the "community".
 
Pugs are amazing btw.

I feel like the people who get frustrated with pugs games are those who cant hold their own. If youre focusing so much on how bad your teammates are I feel like its probably because you are used to being carried by them.

Also, learn to handle a loss. Yes, you are going to be on the losing end of a WSG game from time to time. People handle this so badly its not even funny. I wonder how many WoW players have ever played a sport.
 
Migration is the worst kind of idea. It leads to splitting and less activity altogether. F2P communities are already very fragile because there is no financial commitment and twinks are easily leveled and abandoned.

When people from AP A migrated, AP A died and then later the migrated server died.

Instead, people need to just ban and reinforce rules. With a bigger pool of people there will be bad apples and they need to be taken care of, that's all. It's a normal development.

Also, sometimes the "old pros" are the ones who are behaving the worst, just saying ;-).
 
Izac said:
Hey KIinda. I know where you're coming from. I know 24s are peopIe too and you want to be nice to them.

I'm not saying we shouId hate 24s. I'm saying that their vision for this bracket is different than ours, and that what the bracket can be is much better than what 24s have in mind for it.

I've seen quite a few Iong-time 24s reroII f2p characters and say they're having more fun. It's more fun when you have to try harder, come up with better strategies, outpIay your opponents, rather than just roIIing up to the efc and one shotting them. It's more fun when there isn't an asterisk* by every win that you have -- * "yeah, I pIayed hard and won, but I probabIy wouId've died if I wasnt a 24/p2p and the other team wouIda capped" -- a Iot of peopIe get that after a whiIe, they start understanding that this bracket is dominated by f2p characters and 24s dont reaIIy fit into the competitive community

There are aIways gonna be peopIe who Iove to be overpowered -- theres the 24 premades who pIant that "fIag of ownership" item into your corpse after they zerg you

But they dont know what they're missing, and the best thing we can do for 24s/p2ps is to try and get them to reroII -- not Iet them continue to miss out on the fun of what couId be a not-perfect-but-somewhat-baIanced bracket
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I agree with you, Izac. The unfortunate reality is that the majority of p2p's are not going to convert to f2p in order to achieve a balanced bracket or a competitive community. My main point is that since we know that p2p's are on AP as well as other servers, we should perhaps welcome them, instead of telling them to go away. We all know that for as long as f2p's are here, p2p's will be as well.

When foreign exchange students come to your school, you don't tell them to go away, you welcome them and treat them the same way you would like to be treated if you were in their country. A terrible analogy for this situation, but you get my point, right?

Activate and everyone else need to realize that p2ps are not going anywhere. Fighting them and calling them "Scum" isn't going to make them go away.
 
P2p's are welcome and appreciated (without them, there would be no premades). However, if they want to participate in premades they must abide by f2p rules.
 
Klinda said:
I agree with you, Izac. The unfortunate reality is that the majority of p2p's are not going to convert to f2p in order to achieve a balanced bracket or a competitive community. My main point is that since we know that p2p's are on AP as well as other servers, we should perhaps welcome them, instead of telling them to go away. We all know that for as long as f2p's are here, p2p's will be as well.

When foreign exchange students come to your school, you don't tell them to go away, you welcome them and treat them the same way you would like to be treated if you were in their country. A terrible analogy for this situation, but you get my point, right?

Activate and everyone else need to realize that p2ps are not going anywhere. Fighting them and calling them "Scum" isn't going to make them go away.
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I've been trying to get some of my friends into 20 pvp... when I explain the limitations they were shocked anyone would bother to stay at 20 - and even if they did they could not understand why they wouldn't use p2p gear. And these are nice decent people. Just saying not everyone buys into the even playing field mentality... even good peeps.

This isn't the f2p bracket. It's our bracket. Let's play with the cards we're dealt.
 
Well not when they're using our f2p addon, we can certainly expect those that are in the #f2pchat chan, most likely using our addon, to also follow our rules.
 
Klinda said:
I agree with you, Izac. The unfortunate reality is that the majority of p2p's are not going to convert to f2p in order to achieve a balanced bracket or a competitive community. My main point is that since we know that p2p's are on AP as well as other servers, we should perhaps welcome them, instead of telling them to go away. We all know that for as long as f2p's are here, p2p's will be as well.

When foreign exchange students come to your school, you don't tell them to go away, you welcome them and treat them the same way you would like to be treated if you were in their country. A terrible analogy for this situation, but you get my point, right?

Activate and everyone else need to realize that p2ps are not going anywhere. Fighting them and calling them "Scum" isn't going to make them go away.
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Obviously we can't delete their characters. That doesn't mean we're going to play with them. They are NOT welcome in my games, on my team or in my premades. I can control one, sometimes two of those scenarios and I will every single time I can.
 
This isn't your server. It's not your chat channel. It's everyone's. Even new clueless people, Even vets. Even those that go 24. Or those that convert to 20. Even those few confused 22s like Baffi lol.

We are all God's people.

And I am all for banning people... just when they are being a douche - not due to level.
 
Klinda said:
I agree with you, Izac. The unfortunate reality is that the majority of p2p's are not going to convert to f2p in order to achieve a balanced bracket or a competitive community.
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That's okay, they can stay 24s -- they can enjoy the fun of having a signifcant advantage and winning games based on gear instead of the satisfaction of knowing that it was their effort and good pIay that mattered -- if that's what they want, that's fine. but if we start pIaying with them, they start getting the best of both worIds, and its not right. 24s cause a Iot of frustration to a Iot of peopIe who are trying very hard to win but cant because they dont have money to pay for wow. its not a good thing

Klinda said:
When foreign exchange students come to your school, you don't tell them to go away, you welcome them and treat them the same way you would like to be treated if you were in their country.
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Yeah but it's not that sort of thing at aII -- it's not that they have different skin coIor or some other sort of thing outside of their controI. what theyre doing isnt a good or a harmIess thing -- it actuaIIy effects other peopIe in a negative way, even if it is just a game

we shouIdn't hate them, but we can't teII them that being a 24 is okay -- we want to make this bracket as fair and competitive as possibIe, because the majority of the bracket has to pIay on a fair and competitive pIaying fieId anyway due to f2p restrictions

it's not that hard -- if peopIe are making 24s on AP horde, we just teII them "hey man, it's cooI if you stay on AP but most of us want you to be a IeveI 20 with f2p restrictions. it's not fair to the other team and it makes games Iess fun for us because our contributions mean a Iot Iess to the game"

you'II be doing them a favor
 
R Prime said:
This isn't your server. It's not your chat channel.
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Agree.

It's everyone's. Even new clueless people, Even vets. Even those that go 24. Or those that convert to 20. Even those few confused 22s like Baffi lol.
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Disagree.

We are all God's people.
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Keep your rhetoric to yourself. I believe in science.

And I am all for banning people... just when they are being a douche - not due to level.
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I banned him for recruiting trials into his premade. They didn't know any better. I would do it again.
 
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KainUFC said:
Pugs are amazing btw.

I feel like the people who get frustrated with pugs games are those who cant hold their own. If youre focusing so much on how bad your teammates are I feel like its probably because you are used to being carried by them.

Also, learn to handle a loss. Yes, you are going to be on the losing end of a WSG game from time to time. People handle this so badly its not even funny. I wonder how many WoW players have ever played a sport.
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If that is directed partly at me I'll reply:

I agree partly with you. And obviously if you pugmade you get carried more and your individual contribution is less. That's why it's often boring. And I don't have a problem with losses and don't care about any statistics. I even prefer a hard fought loss over an easy boring win.

I do Pug like 90% to 10% pugmade. I agree that those that call people names after a failed cap can't do proper math: EFC alone our offense very strong that means our fc should have no trouble standing on cap spot.

But tell me you don't get annoyed by things that happen in the gulch. When you are alone waiting in enemy base waiting for support and your teammates are derping around in mid. And I can't solo 2 rdruids and a hpal as a mage. Or after waiting till 10 stacks as a fc to watch not one enter the enemy base and then at last you almost believe in miracles the team is entering the enemy base to be struck by the sudden realization why they got out of mid. Mid is empty and the 8 enemy players got to you faster. Or when some guy picks up the flag and doesn't find the base for 10 minutes and when he finally does you are too late to return a 7th time and the game ends a tie. All that happens during CTA on a char that needs honor for his first BoA. Beeing annoyed by that seems to me like a natural reaction and not bad sportsmanship.
 
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Hey Izac you so lucky i wasn't on that Game. I would of killed you like the first time :p
sucks man haha I showed them how to do it now Izac wont ever happen again.
 
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