Ivo
Dedicated Guide Author
So a 29 hunter is equal to a 20 hunter. Got it boss
Ques Merged... kinda
- Thread starter Chops
- Start date
OP
OP
Chops
Soccer Dad
"can you do math or do you need me to do grammar" is kind of a weird question but... ok
Bambucea
Veteran
I agree with you, but there are some 20 AHTwinks out there, as I like to call them, that are equipped with full tert gear bought of the AH for millions of gold that do the same thing, 1 or 2 button delete people with an advantage gained buy spending years worth of gametime in 1 or 2 days maybe, so imo they dont deserve respect either. Also maintaining the advantage of being 29 is also possible by farming a token, not only by paying $.
Sil
Member
TL;DR long queues and being destroyed makes me a sad F2P
I just wanted to share my perspective of this change (if it remains permanent).
I am fully F2P and haven’t had gametime on my current account (used to play and twink back in Vanilla/TBC with a sub). The reason I play right now is for the PVP. The gearing, exploration, questing, grinding, and farming is all, to me, only enjoyable because of the PVP goal at the end.
The things I enjoy about the PVP is that it is possible for a pure F2P to be able to (eventually lol) gear up to about 95% the strength of a vet, and the games are frequent with usually short wait times.
I enjoy being able to get fast and consistent BG queues. I am in Aus, on Oceanic servers which are tied in with the NA servers BGs. People from the NA region servers make up, usually, the large majority of all the players in the 20’s BGs I play in. The usual times of the day when I am available for BGs are often very scattered compared to that of the peak times for NA.
With this change, two things are happening, which affect me negatively. Allow me to QQ moar:
Unsure if this is just teething and the adjustments are because it is middle of the week and it hasn’t settled yet, but game queue times have so far been MUCH longer. With me not being always able to queue up in “peak” times, this could make a casual game or 3 be a significantly longer experience than what it has been. I like being able to have a quick game here and there when I don’t have time for a longer session.
2. Getting completely and utterly destroyed by 29’s.
Some of the games I’ve played, since the change, have been incredibly rewarding. With 20’s on either side, it’s much harder to kill or be killed in an instant. Healers on your team are likely to have more than 125 int and 5 haste so your team is able to survive longer. Probably feels like what organised 10v10 games can feel like (RIP timezones)!
However, there have already been some people joining games which are 25+ and locked XP. Most topped a few of the charts and were individually very hard to deal with. 1v1 was out of the question.
Not all of them were amazing. Some had mediocre gear, and the meta hasn’t caught up yet and there is no definitive BIS yet. But also, the ones who are making 29’s haven’t yet had the chance to. I predict in a week or 2 that there will be a much greater percentage of people playing their 29’s after they have gear and enchants, and things are going to be much more difficult for anyone who isn’t 29.
I see people saying that the 29’s “aren’t that much stronger” and it isn’t a huge deal – I thought so, too, until I encountered some of the more geared ones. I don’t stand a chance against them L
I have a hunch that these two things will get worse. People will find better gear and destroy the unsubbed 20’s, queue times will get longer, which will cause more people to stop queuing, which will cause queues to get longer, etc.
If this continues (long queue times and feeling like a leveller in BG-crate gear) then I might tour out, sadly. I was very excited for DF talents and was planning to make a 2nd (Vet) account in order to unlock timewalking and more RDF dungeons for my other account. I would have paid some amount of cash money for the game in order to gear up and stuff, but I have no interest in a long term subscription in order to play a 29 to stay relevant. I have even less interest in paying a subscription in order to wait half an hour in order to get a game. I liked the casual nature of it with no pressure to “use it or lose it” that comes with a subscription based game.
(and yes I know that my main is a hunter lol I do appreciate the irony but it is one of the few classes that allows me to fully, entirely, 100% solo and no help gear my own toons – I'm making more toons on my other account in order to let my hunter carry it through dungeons. My points still stand, my Hpal or WL also don't want to be hitting like soft noodles or being unable to out-heal a single DOT from a 29 or being chain stunned like no tomorrow against the DIPs etc. and they also don't want to wait 30 minutes for each and every game)
ETA: I don't want to sound entitled or that I *deserve* a more "fair" and quick PVP experience, just sharing my perspective and that I'd be sad, but that I'd simply move on. I've really enjoyed what the last year of my brief tour had and I liked what was available
I just wanted to share my perspective of this change (if it remains permanent).
I am fully F2P and haven’t had gametime on my current account (used to play and twink back in Vanilla/TBC with a sub). The reason I play right now is for the PVP. The gearing, exploration, questing, grinding, and farming is all, to me, only enjoyable because of the PVP goal at the end.
The things I enjoy about the PVP is that it is possible for a pure F2P to be able to (eventually lol) gear up to about 95% the strength of a vet, and the games are frequent with usually short wait times.
I enjoy being able to get fast and consistent BG queues. I am in Aus, on Oceanic servers which are tied in with the NA servers BGs. People from the NA region servers make up, usually, the large majority of all the players in the 20’s BGs I play in. The usual times of the day when I am available for BGs are often very scattered compared to that of the peak times for NA.
With this change, two things are happening, which affect me negatively. Allow me to QQ moar:
- Queue times have gotten longer.
Unsure if this is just teething and the adjustments are because it is middle of the week and it hasn’t settled yet, but game queue times have so far been MUCH longer. With me not being always able to queue up in “peak” times, this could make a casual game or 3 be a significantly longer experience than what it has been. I like being able to have a quick game here and there when I don’t have time for a longer session.
2. Getting completely and utterly destroyed by 29’s.
Some of the games I’ve played, since the change, have been incredibly rewarding. With 20’s on either side, it’s much harder to kill or be killed in an instant. Healers on your team are likely to have more than 125 int and 5 haste so your team is able to survive longer. Probably feels like what organised 10v10 games can feel like (RIP timezones)!
However, there have already been some people joining games which are 25+ and locked XP. Most topped a few of the charts and were individually very hard to deal with. 1v1 was out of the question.
Not all of them were amazing. Some had mediocre gear, and the meta hasn’t caught up yet and there is no definitive BIS yet. But also, the ones who are making 29’s haven’t yet had the chance to. I predict in a week or 2 that there will be a much greater percentage of people playing their 29’s after they have gear and enchants, and things are going to be much more difficult for anyone who isn’t 29.
I see people saying that the 29’s “aren’t that much stronger” and it isn’t a huge deal – I thought so, too, until I encountered some of the more geared ones. I don’t stand a chance against them L
I have a hunch that these two things will get worse. People will find better gear and destroy the unsubbed 20’s, queue times will get longer, which will cause more people to stop queuing, which will cause queues to get longer, etc.
If this continues (long queue times and feeling like a leveller in BG-crate gear) then I might tour out, sadly. I was very excited for DF talents and was planning to make a 2nd (Vet) account in order to unlock timewalking and more RDF dungeons for my other account. I would have paid some amount of cash money for the game in order to gear up and stuff, but I have no interest in a long term subscription in order to play a 29 to stay relevant. I have even less interest in paying a subscription in order to wait half an hour in order to get a game. I liked the casual nature of it with no pressure to “use it or lose it” that comes with a subscription based game.
(and yes I know that my main is a hunter lol I do appreciate the irony but it is one of the few classes that allows me to fully, entirely, 100% solo and no help gear my own toons – I'm making more toons on my other account in order to let my hunter carry it through dungeons. My points still stand, my Hpal or WL also don't want to be hitting like soft noodles or being unable to out-heal a single DOT from a 29 or being chain stunned like no tomorrow against the DIPs etc. and they also don't want to wait 30 minutes for each and every game)
ETA: I don't want to sound entitled or that I *deserve* a more "fair" and quick PVP experience, just sharing my perspective and that I'd be sad, but that I'd simply move on. I've really enjoyed what the last year of my brief tour had and I liked what was available
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Bop
Remember the Treeline
Let me be the first to officially welcome you to the grand irony of our bracket: we say we want competitive games. Really, the bracket wants the exact opposite. We want to outlet IRL frustrations by smashing some buttons and seeing some health bars get low.
No one wants competitive games. We want to be king in a small, sad part of the internet.
Get used to playing with people who would blow their dad for +1 vers.
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Sil
Member
Haha I definitely understand and see that mentality!
I'd love, truly, having full team of 20 twinks on either side, full gear and enchants, and quick queue times. I know that organised games alleviate some of that desire but that isn't always available to me and it also doesn't satisfy the casual quick game desire, either. It'll probably always remain a fantasy but that is what I'd love
Radoon
Member
Number 4.. Not like gonna happen.. They just changed it again from talent to baseline..
OP
OP
Chops
Soccer Dad
I need you to look at the date on that thread, man
Dragonstormy
Member
I feel you...TL;DR long queues and being destroyed makes me a sad F2P
I just wanted to share my perspective of this change (if it remains permanent).
I am fully F2P and haven’t had gametime on my current account (used to play and twink back in Vanilla/TBC with a sub). The reason I play right now is for the PVP. The gearing, exploration, questing, grinding, and farming is all, to me, only enjoyable because of the PVP goal at the end.
The things I enjoy about the PVP is that it is possible for a pure F2P to be able to (eventually lol) gear up to about 95% the strength of a vet, and the games are frequent with usually short wait times.
I enjoy being able to get fast and consistent BG queues. I am in Aus, on Oceanic servers which are tied in with the NA servers BGs. People from the NA region servers make up, usually, the large majority of all the players in the 20’s BGs I play in. The usual times of the day when I am available for BGs are often very scattered compared to that of the peak times for NA.
With this change, two things are happening, which affect me negatively. Allow me to QQ moar:
- Queue times have gotten longer.
Unsure if this is just teething and the adjustments are because it is middle of the week and it hasn’t settled yet, but game queue times have so far been MUCH longer. With me not being always able to queue up in “peak” times, this could make a casual game or 3 be a significantly longer experience than what it has been. I like being able to have a quick game here and there when I don’t have time for a longer session.
2. Getting completely and utterly destroyed by 29’s.
Some of the games I’ve played, since the change, have been incredibly rewarding. With 20’s on either side, it’s much harder to kill or be killed in an instant. Healers on your team are likely to have more than 125 int and 5 haste so your team is able to survive longer. Probably feels like what organised 10v10 games can feel like (RIP timezones)!
However, there have already been some people joining games which are 25+ and locked XP. Most topped a few of the charts and were individually very hard to deal with. 1v1 was out of the question.
Not all of them were amazing. Some had mediocre gear, and the meta hasn’t caught up yet and there is no definitive BIS yet. But also, the ones who are making 29’s haven’t yet had the chance to. I predict in a week or 2 that there will be a much greater percentage of people playing their 29’s after they have gear and enchants, and things are going to be much more difficult for anyone who isn’t 29.
I see people saying that the 29’s “aren’t that much stronger” and it isn’t a huge deal – I thought so, too, until I encountered some of the more geared ones. I don’t stand a chance against them L
I have a hunch that these two things will get worse. People will find better gear and destroy the unsubbed 20’s, queue times will get longer, which will cause more people to stop queuing, which will cause queues to get longer, etc.
If this continues (long queue times and feeling like a leveller in BG-crate gear) then I might tour out, sadly. I was very excited for DF talents and was planning to make a 2nd (Vet) account in order to unlock timewalking and more RDF dungeons for my other account. I would have paid some amount of cash money for the game in order to gear up and stuff, but I have no interest in a long term subscription in order to play a 29 to stay relevant. I have even less interest in paying a subscription in order to wait half an hour in order to get a game. I liked the casual nature of it with no pressure to “use it or lose it” that comes with a subscription based game.
(and yes I know that my main is a hunter lol I do appreciate the irony but it is one of the few classes that allows me to fully, entirely, 100% solo and no help gear my own toons – I'm making more toons on my other account in order to let my hunter carry it through dungeons. My points still stand, my Hpal or WL also don't want to be hitting like soft noodles or being unable to out-heal a single DOT from a 29 or being chain stunned like no tomorrow against the DIPs etc. and they also don't want to wait 30 minutes for each and every game)
ETA: I don't want to sound entitled or that I *deserve* a more "fair" and quick PVP experience, just sharing my perspective and that I'd be sad, but that I'd simply move on. I've really enjoyed what the last year of my brief tour had and I liked what was available
Is kinda ironic as pure f2p to sucessfully catch up with vets and then boom 29's XD.
Except that I got used to long queues as I only play Epic Bgs. -_-
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Radoon
Member
I did, for sure.. Was just pointing out that blizz does not agree with your (old) opinion about Titans Grip
OP
OP
Chops
Soccer Dad
It... it was not a statement of opinion.I did, for sure.. Was just pointing out that blizz does not agree with your (old) opinion about Titans Grip
raziel83
Legend
You're alliance though. Even just a few days before this change I've had some 20+ min alliance queues on US. Horde has the faster queues. Now that the player pool is reduced, it only exemplifies the faction imbalance. I wont even bother queuing on my ally toon now.
Also back when the bracket was 20-24 and 24 twinks were super OP (no level scaling) 1 shotting everything, the queues still kept going due to f2ps.
icehawk
The Beast Within
I feel u @Sil. Queues on Oce can sometimes be a little slower in general. We usually start off in Oce queue which if it doesn’t pop then joins NA, so we have a little extra lag. I quite often see NA people queue after me but get in bg quicker……
Plus late night Aus is crappola…. the NA crew don’t wake up till later….. so gonna be quite dead for me.
I guess I don’t mind doing some quests and achieves while waiting for queues to pop.
I’m a dust off my Hunter….. 20 Blood was shocking…… Surv Hunter Raptor Strikes we’re hitting me like they were light sabers…..
We used to have to deal with 29’s in the past. Hopefully if it’s only a handful per bg we’ll be ok….. if it starts becoming full blown 29’s with a sprinkling of 20’s…… well - might wanna start being a PvE hero….
Plus late night Aus is crappola…. the NA crew don’t wake up till later….. so gonna be quite dead for me.
I guess I don’t mind doing some quests and achieves while waiting for queues to pop.
I’m a dust off my Hunter….. 20 Blood was shocking…… Surv Hunter Raptor Strikes we’re hitting me like they were light sabers…..
We used to have to deal with 29’s in the past. Hopefully if it’s only a handful per bg we’ll be ok….. if it starts becoming full blown 29’s with a sprinkling of 20’s…… well - might wanna start being a PvE hero….
Adruim
Grandfathered
I leveled up and full geared up one toon of each class just hoping DF to be the best expac ever for lvl 20s /F2P/Vet. I've been playing F2P/Vet since Cata and I remember playing in a lvl 20-24 bracket which honestly sucked a way too hard. Getting literally obliterated by Shadow Priests and Rogues was not fun at all.
Here are my 2 cents. Two possible ways to solve this problem:
1. F2P level change, from 20 to 29 or even 30. So every F2P/Vet can lvl up to 29.
2. Play lvl 19 twinks
Here are my 2 cents. Two possible ways to solve this problem:
1. F2P level change, from 20 to 29 or even 30. So every F2P/Vet can lvl up to 29.
2. Play lvl 19 twinks
Attachments
Chey
Legend
Iam in the same situation as you Sil, also oceanic and the biggest issue is now getting into a game.
But.... idk man, seems like the ones upset the most are the ones used to being at the top of the food chain. I know it will get worse as BiS is discovered and people start maxing 29s but the games I have had so far have been fairly even and I would take that over getting stomped or stomping levelers.
The hypocrisy is huge, the bracket at its core has and continues to not be 'fair' everything from the true FTP vs levelers, the AH VeTs vs FTP, the FOTM VeTs and FTPs vs the nons, the Hunter/Priest premade BGs, the voice chat team queue vs solo queue arena players, the list can go on and on.
The only difference now is the try hards that have been sitting at the top end have now moved on to 29 or rerolled and the others who cant except the change (understandable for many reasons *no sarcasm intended) are going to quit or bitch.
As for me I have reestablished my love of the toon I had played for so long, I plan to continue working on achievements, recipes, reps, etc just as I used to when it was 70. Much the same as a FTP would do just on easy mode, I will do this as I queue for BGs/Arenas until the eventual reality of the brackets dies a natural death.
I am upset yes, but not disappointed. Those that choose to play the game for free have been awarded no thought or regard in the decisions moving forward, this my friends is fair.
But.... idk man, seems like the ones upset the most are the ones used to being at the top of the food chain. I know it will get worse as BiS is discovered and people start maxing 29s but the games I have had so far have been fairly even and I would take that over getting stomped or stomping levelers.
The hypocrisy is huge, the bracket at its core has and continues to not be 'fair' everything from the true FTP vs levelers, the AH VeTs vs FTP, the FOTM VeTs and FTPs vs the nons, the Hunter/Priest premade BGs, the voice chat team queue vs solo queue arena players, the list can go on and on.
The only difference now is the try hards that have been sitting at the top end have now moved on to 29 or rerolled and the others who cant except the change (understandable for many reasons *no sarcasm intended) are going to quit or bitch.
As for me I have reestablished my love of the toon I had played for so long, I plan to continue working on achievements, recipes, reps, etc just as I used to when it was 70. Much the same as a FTP would do just on easy mode, I will do this as I queue for BGs/Arenas until the eventual reality of the brackets dies a natural death.
I am upset yes, but not disappointed. Those that choose to play the game for free have been awarded no thought or regard in the decisions moving forward, this my friends is fair.
raziel83
Legend
idk why people think this. Whatever BG bracket f2ps have been in has never stopped popping, ever. Not even lvl 24 twinks with zero leveling scaling in the 20-24 bracket could kill it.
Sil
Member
I don't like playing these much either, because of how useless I am in these games
Huh interesting! I wonder what else changed in the last week, because the queues have been roughly consistent most days for the last year.
Yeah, the initial drop (right now) is from no levelers. People who stop playing will make this worse.
Completely agree, those have been amazing! I don't personally mind at all with not being at the top, just not keen on being at the bottom by a margin (especially if it is after long wait times). Okay maybe the socketless weird F2Ps are at the bottom lol. The last year with how the margins between F2P and Vets being as small as they have been was exactly what I was looking for and would be great to continue getting that
What did the queue times get up to? Were they as good as it was a month ago?