Premade Discussion

[Ertai]

Offense:



Rogue

Priest

Warrior

Shaman

Lock



Defense



Priest

Paladin

Druid

Mage

Hunter

With the offense you're running I would probably prefer a Hunter in place of the Warlock. The way it is you don't have much CC on the D. You have the Warrior and that's about it (and he's one of the guys you want on the FC primarily). A Warlock is nice but not a must-have, in this case a Hunter clipping the Priests/Mage of the other teams D would be better if you ask me.



D Hunter is situational, my guilds have used it sometimes, and other times have not. Five man D is already conservative, so I think the best bet is to start the Hunter out on O, and if your D is getting overwhelmed, move him back later.

i dont have any premade experience as of yet, but it seems like a wtf are you thinking setup to me... i mean, mage on defense? i'd rather have the mage on offense then D, and put the lock in its place, druid defense? explain please.

Think of a Mage's primary moves at 19. Polymorph, Frost Nova, Frostbolt. All these moves have the common factor of being good at stopping/slowing down other players. A Defense's only job is to keep their FC from dying, and this doesn't mean they have to try to kill the opposing team's Offense in any way, all they have to do is kite them. A good Mage can slow/stop multiple people at one, including removing the other team's dispels by sheeping the Priest. Being able to slow so many people so easily is the reason Mages are a staple of any D.



A Druid on D is even more simple, they are the best flag carrier at 19. They have the highest health, high armor, but most of all the act of shapeshifting removes all movement impairing effects on the Druid. This means any snare can be removed simply by shifting into or out of bearform. So as long as the Druid still has mana he can get out of the enemy slows while his defense slows them down.

I still like the idea of a Warlock in a premade. Perhaps not as a 'normal' slot in your team, but a good Lock can really trip up the opposition if it's unexpected.

Fears on the D priests and full SP dots ticking on the FC (if the Priest is incapacitated especially) are definitely nice. The fact that the vast majority of their damage can be dispelled before happeing makes them situational, but still quite useful if played right.

 

[Quara]

So the first cap is pretty much everything in 3.2. This would seem to mean that you'd need a powerful offense, because if you just sit back on D the best that will happen is a draw. Since no team wants to play for a draw, I think the new balance will be usually 6-4; in the PTR premades I played we had a 7-3 split, with the FC utilizing his travel form as much as possible. By putting a lot more pressure on your opponents, the worst that will happen (with good communication) is that you will have to pickup the flag again.



I'd really like to hear some other opinions on post-patch premades.





EDIT: a possible set up, for good disruption and burst potential on O and flexibility and survivability on D:



O:

Warrior (AP)

Hunter (AP/Int)

Shaman (Int/SP)

Priest (mp5/Haste)

Rogue (AP)

Rogue (AP)



D:

Druid

Mage

Priest

Pally - or maybe Mage.

 

[Ogsir]

not at all, rogues are pretty weak at 19

LAWL, kakdsakja awida iadjaidi a10 chars

 

[Rayu]

Offense



Holy Priest

CC Lock

Subtelty Rogue

CC Mage

Shaman FC



Defense



2 CC mages

3 warriors with glyph of hamstring

 

[kidneypopper]

offense



holy priest

cc lock

subtelty rogue

cc mage

shaman fc



defense



2 cc mages

3 warriors with glyph of hamstring

]





jahahhahahhahahahahahaha

 

[Painaid]

I prefer a 7-3 set up in most situations. Sometimes a 6-4 is needed, but 5-5 is just far too defensive. With a 7-3 you put so much pressure on the EFC that they are forced to kite outside the base most of the time. Therefore, if your FC dies, your offense will almost always be in a position to pick it back up and reset.



I won't get into specifics, but in general I prefer a double-priest offense for maximum dispels and reducing the ability of the enemy mage to CC your offense.



The important thing in creating a comp in a 10v10 situation is to make sure you get the most out of your money. Therefore, make sure that no two classes are overlapping each other in terms of what their job is. This means, for instance, that I would not recommend running a double-mage D. One mage can do pretty much the same job that two mages could do. It just becomes inefficient when you add another and that slot would better be spent with a shaman or hunter on D.

 

[kidneypopper]

I prefer a 7-3 set up in most situations. Sometimes a 6-4 is needed, but 5-5 is just far too defensive. With a 7-3 you put so much pressure on the EFC that they are forced to kite outside the base most of the time. Therefore, if your FC dies, your offense will almost always be in a position to pick it back up and reset.



I won't get into specifics, but in general I prefer a double-priest offense for maximum dispels and reducing the ability of the enemy mage to CC your offense.



The important thing in creating a comp in a 10v10 situation is to make sure you get the most out of your money. Therefore, make sure that no two classes are overlapping each other in terms of what their job is. This means, for instance, that I would not recommend running a double-mage D. One mage can do pretty much the same job that two mages could do. It just becomes inefficient when you add another and that slot would better be spent with a shaman or hunter on D.

you've obviously never played with Deathstone/Snowshoe playing double mages on D. it's 'lol'

 

[Ogsir]

Yeah I never want to be an asshole to snow and /spit him but he basically CCs the shit out of me, who is death's mage??

 

[kidneypopper]

Yeah I never want to be an asshole to snow and /spit him but he basically CCs the shit out of me, who is death's mage??

the wolf of the night

 

[Painaid]

you've obviously never played with Deathstone/Snowshoe playing double mages on D. it's 'lol'

I would venture to say Prodigy has the two best ice mages in the US right now. Just one of them is all the CC we need.

 

[Pizza]

I would still have to say the set-up Pizza Hut we have been using for the past year is really not beatable. We have done tons of scheduled premades this last year (20 or so). Our set-up has yet to fail us.



Set-up:



Offense: Secret

Defense: Secret



Really though, with different players different class set-ups work. If you don't have the right player then certain classes won't work correct.

 

[Ertai]

LAWL, kakdsakja awida iadjaidi a10 chars

Rogues aren't very versitile at 19, you peel one off of you and that's about it. Pretty much every other class has more uniqueness to add to a team.





Quara, you realize the team set-up you posted for post 3.2 is probably the current "cookie cutter" build for premades in 3.1 and before? I'm not saying it's wrong, just pointing out how I don't think 3.2 is really changing much gameplay-wise except for the timer.

 

[Quara]

Rogues aren't very versitile at 19, you peel one off of you and that's about it. Pretty much every other class has more uniqueness to add to a team.





Quara, you realize the team set-up you posted for post 3.2 is probably the current "cookie cutter" build for premades in 3.1 and before? I'm not saying it's wrong, just pointing out how I don't think 3.2 is really changing much gameplay-wise except for the timer.

I see most teams, in Ruin at least, running 5-5. And rogues have fallen out of favor. I don't think there is an exact 'cookie cutter team', and if there is that's definitely not it.



EDIT: I do think rogues are still very useful. They can burst in full AP and if they're decent players can stay on their targets much more reliably than hunters. A good rogue can be a huge problem for a Defense, as they can lock down at least one healer with kicks & gouges. Most successful teams I've seen run 2.

 

[Ertai]

I see most teams, in Ruin at least, running 5-5. And rogues have fallen out of favor. I don't think there is an exact 'cookie cutter team', and if there is that's definitely not it.



EDIT: I do think rogues are still very useful. They can burst in full AP and if they're decent players can stay on their targets much more reliably than hunters. A good rogue can be a huge problem for a Defense, as they can lock down at least one healer with kicks & gouges. Most successful teams I've seen run 2.

The teams running a 5-5 in Ruin are the ones losing.



I think you took two seperate statements and thought I was making one point. Talking about the versatility of Rogues was explaining why I think Goma called them weak, and I figure he was talking more about arena and overall what they can do.



Rogues have the best CC move (sap), the best interupt, and the best DPS at 19. Two of them played expertly is the ideal way to go. If I was going to write down my perfect team it would've been identical to what you wrote (Pally definitely, two Mages is redundant), and I've seen many other people's ideal team be the same.

 

[kidneypopper]

i played against that mage you're talking about on the PTR, painaid. lol, he aint no snowshoe

 

[(Hass)]

Snow and Math #1.



I'm pretty sure half the kids posting in this thread don't understand how a premade works. They just wanna leave like 5 on defense in the flag room so the 5 they send out to get the flag gets destroyed by the 10 the other team sends to get the flag, cool.

 

[Grunge]

D: Druid (armor/hp)

Mage(stats/haste)

Priest(holy/disc)

Hunter(Stats or Int)



O: Priest(disc)

Mage(stats/haste)

Lock(SP)/Shaman(resto/SP)

Rogue(AP, Blood Elf)

Hunter(Falcon AP set)

Warr(AP)



With a short D the druid must help out with CC, he cant just run else his presence is wasted. I dropped a hunter back to D because they need undispellable snares and at least 1 person who can make a kill.



Offence i opted for a disc priest, putting the bulk of their power in instant cast spells, decreased dispell chance and increased armor. The mage is for sheeps, lock for fears and dots. A shaman could be substituted in the lock slot, they have different strengths but both have good snares and good DPS. Rogue for saps, gouges, kicks, BE for extra interupt. Hunter in falcon gear, for max shots without sacrificing crits. Warr, for charge and GoHS.





Comments?

 

[(Hass)]

D: Druid (armor/hp)

Mage(stats/haste)

Priest(holy/disc)

Hunter(Stats or Int)



O: Priest(disc)

Mage(stats/haste)

Lock(SP)/Shaman(resto/SP)

Rogue(AP, Blood Elf)

Hunter(Falcon AP set)

Warr(AP)

Offensive mage?

 

[Grabco]

I would put a pally on D for the sole purpose of providing Lay on Hands (although at most you will only get two off before the battle ends) I think people are under estimating how game changing Lay on Hands is going to be in 3.2

which is all about the first flag cap.



Good FC's know when to cap the flag because they trust their offenses ability to return the flag. This usually means being in a good position to cap it, what better place than on the capture point



Cap Healing:

At some point during the kiting D (Most effective defense in a premade situation) there is a point where you think with relatively high confidence (aka your O is telling you) the EFC is going to go down. Haven't you guys ever had games where both FC's are standing on the capture point taking huge damage. This is the point where you find out who has the most powerful offense/defense in terms of raw damage or healing. Cap healing (FC is healed on the capture point so he can return the flag right when his offense returns) can be performed from the roof of either base to avoid taking damage and can provide consistent uninterupted healing. The trick is to know when your FC is making his way back so that you can be in the right position at the right time. Although Cap healing can be performed by any healing class paladins can provide LoH at the critical point to get that important first cap.



"get ready to cap their FC is going to die...oh wait nvm LoH...Game Over"

 

[Grunge]

Offensive mage?

Yup. Sheeps kill. Mage isnt there to get the FC, hes there to annoy the piss out of the support.



Nothing breaks a team like a fustrated priest.