stickymitten said:
Thankyou Painaid for your solid response and set of justifications, I agree largely with the settup you run, however I feel that a rogue or ret paladin on O really can bring heavy burst at times when its needed. E.g. HoJ, warrior/hunter/lock/priest/pally (some combination of these classes) burn the FC, who has no alternative but trinket if his heals are not strong snough, or health high enough. In the case of a rogue I feel their constant high dps coupled with dispels and/or a HoF paladin really does help, plus they have two interrupts which is really nice when trying to disrupt or even remove the effect of a particularly solid healer.
@Supadrood: Yes, Revolution, I was the D shaman, Stiçky
Your offense was really nasty, thats why I asked
Ret pallies and rogues can do damage, yes, but aside from a rogue's sprint, they have zero speed increasing abilities. And the pally can't stealth either. A pally's only form of CC is a stun which can be dispelled. While the two classes can do damage, they are hardly in a position to do that damage for long, since they are so easily CC-able with snares, and simple avoidance since most defenses will be running ahead of the bulk offense where usually rogues and certainly paladins will be at. They are a terrible choice of trappers as well.
Under no circumstance do I see any reason to bring a ret paladin to a premade if there is another class that I previously mentioned of equal skill that is available to go. They do not bring enough to the table. LoH is a defensive spell only. The offense shouldn't be taking the damage to require it unless they are getting wiped, in which case LoH is just a waste of a cooldown. Freedom is not very useful either as it is most certainly going to be dispelled. Not to mention ever since it got nerfed several patches ago, paladins simply haven't been the same class. Paladin damage and CC ability is lackluster and underwhelming in almost every aspect. Your offense will be relying on the CC of your priest, locks, hunter, and warriors, and the dps of your locks, hunters, and warriors, all who are superior to a ret paladin.
As for rogues, they are mostly in the same boat. Sure, they can 'sneak' up on the offense in stealth, but they still can't leave the bulk of their O because without instant-dispels by a very smart priest, they're going to be useless as well because they're so easily CC'd. Their main boon is sap which is one of the best CC's in the game. To repeat, rogues are extremely reliant on dispels by their priest. Otherwise they're just going to get left behind with no way to catch up except via a 3 minute cooldown. And if the D has a hunter back with them like I propose, it's basically lights out for an offensive rogue sadly.
Against certain guilds, and maybe just for shits 'n giggles, I might take two rogues, but never just one. Doubling down on them has sometimes been successful when they can coordinate saps and sprints. But even this is situational, and the thread OP clearly asked for a generic premade set up which having a rogue or ret pally in certainly is not.
And I've honestly never understood the concept of 'burst'. No one is going to 'burst' down the EFC. When the offense usually gets in that mentality, they end up forgetting about the healers because they're too busy tunnel-visioning. I can't even begin to count the number of times GuP offense was guilty of this concept. The goal should be to isolate and wear down the defense, not sneak up on the FC and burst him down real quick. It's not going to happen. The HP-DMG ratio is still a pretty wide margin in the 19 bracket.
Take one of those classes if you want, or perhaps because good players happen to play those classes in your guild, but it certainly won't be an optimal line up. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to play one. But that's just my $.02 from playing against them in matches.
