New to the 20s Twinking First Try Need Some Help

[raziel83]

Yea that's what I'll do to tinker and take suggestions here.

I do wish there was anything Twink related on Darkspear there is nothing. No BoE, No dragonlings, Nada. Gotta farm everything.

If you don't mind abomb let me know your gear / talent plan (when you get one). I'll be doing this (or something similar) too. I have a geared 20 hpal but I don't like holy lol and I won't play ret. I currently have 11/15 (one slot is pvp trink) ilvl 28 harmonious gear all socketed. As you said there really isn't a good mastery gem option so I was just going to use 15 x steady talasite. None of it is equipped so I don't know what block % it gives yet.

You mentioned dragonling...it's only compatible with the cata cogwheels which are unique and there's only 1 mastery and 1 verse cog available. So at best you'd get 1 mastery 1 verse and either haste or crit for the 3rd. Probably not worth it? I'd rather have the boe str / mastery / socket trink or the silence proc trink. I guess if you're human(?) it's fine for a 2nd trink.

I saw a twink prot pal last night performing very well. He was 4th in dmg and 2nd in heals. His flash heals were doing 1 k non-crit which is more than my holy FH. He was the healing spec with blessed hammer, probably no mastery. Also FYI the +42 mana to chest seems decent for prot, an extra flash heal before OOM.

Circle of flame is basically mandatory for healers, drinking is painful. I wonder if it's a good idea for prot as well. Just a couple of ticks and you're full mana again to spam another 6 or so flash heals. But you lose a lot of stats so maybe not.

Finally a ilvl 28 skullflame is probably BIS. The lifesteal scales with sp/ap for paladins. That's out of my price range tho

 

[The Abomb]

If you don't mind abomb let me know your gear / talent plan (when you get one). I'll be doing this (or something similar) too. I have a geared 20 hpal but I don't like holy lol and I won't play ret.

Well probably gonna be a long while I don't have the gear. Would have to make a 24-25 to start farming for it. 2 days on sub so I have been focusing on my fallback Twink my Spriest as the gearing is real simple. Get some sockets, run mostly intel gems and melt stuff. Like I said this is the first test with observing the bracket so I'll have to make adjustments get another 1 month sub then farm for the ideal gear in the future.

Talent simple Holy Shield, that is the talent that makes Prot well a Prot. It's the only reason I play Prot. If they removed that talent I would never touch Prot again. Just like I abandoned Prot War when they removed D stance.

Haste is up there with Mastery and think it will be important in Twinking since you have no option for double judgement talent or other holy power generators with Holy shield. On my Prot Pal Twink I got 18% haste which gives me a low GCD and 5.1 sec Judges. Since I haven't had luck on Mastery gear yet I got this at least.

So other gem option 2 str 2 haste or any 2 str secondary.

You mentioned dragonling...it's only compatible with the cata cogwheels which are unique and there's only 1 mastery and 1 verse cog available. So at best you'd get 1 mastery 1 verse and either haste or crit for the 3rd. Probably not worth it?

Hmmm this is interesting and didn't know that. Still learning a lot but I've seen people with 2 crit, or 2 haste in there. So I thought you could wear 2 Mastery? If not as mention above double haste would be good in the build.

I'd rather have the boe str / mastery / socket trink or the silence proc trink. I guess if you're human(?) it's fine for a 2nd trink.

Yea If I can't get double mastery cogs then perhaps this is best, although Secondary stat stacking can be very fun would have to play with it. In max level in BFA I even ran less str for secondary stats in some slots because they just offer so much in mitigation, damage and rotation. Crit is very powerful now since it was buffed in SL as well to 175% dmg. Good for healing and dmg. Also Holy Shield dmg can crit and since it will be going off 100s of times in a BG the more that crits the better for damage. Also Versa would increase that as well.

I saw a twink prot pal last night performing very well. He was 4th in dmg and 2nd in heals. His flash heals were doing 1 k non-crit which is more than my holy FH. He was the healing spec with blessed hammer, probably no mastery. Also FYI the +42 mana to chest seems decent for prot, an extra flash heal before OOM.

That's interesting. I rarely flash heal though to prevent holy lock out. Only if I'm in the back away from combat. I mostly am using my Holy Power to WoG which is where your big healing is in a healing spec especially with hammers. Like at max level I likely will never even press flash heal in a BG. WoG is the way as it is instant and a big heal. Granted 1k non crit is nice on flash.

Although I always play Prot aggressive and not like a healer. Most of my heals are on me and I'm busy Dpsing.

Circle of flame is basically mandatory for healers, drinking is painful. I wonder if it's a good idea for prot as well. Just a couple of ticks and you're full mana

Prot doesn't use mana though. That is why they just nerfed them at Max level because of Drainer playing Prot Pal as a healer in last seasons AWC. Running a hammer build and just WoGing full healing people like he is casting Lay on Hands. Really annoyed because he got my Steed PvP talent nerfed where you had CC immunity. The stupid conduit extended steed making you have 11 secs of CC immunity. So instead of just fixing the conduit they broke the PvP talent and you are no longer immune to CC.

Finally a ilvl 28 skullflame is probably BIS. The lifesteal scales with sp/ap for paladins. That's out of my price range

How I get one of those haha. Honestly everything is out of my price range because there is nothing to buy on Darkspear. Literally nada. So farming is the only way. Yea a mastery Prot Pal will have the most sp/ap possible.

I also use dejacharacter stats add on too see how much Ap I have what my GCD is etc to truly decide on if an item is good for my build.

On the note of Trinkets, is it possible to do Mechagon or get to the content of Mecha in chromie time? If so I wonder if I can get a Twink version of my old best buddy from BFA in the Pocket-Sized Punch card.

All this pally talk maybe I'll log on him today or at least try to quick build a farmer for the gear for him. See if i have luck. The shoulders for my 2pc on Priest wouldn't drop yesterday lol. Maybe a change in farming for today and see if i get lucky.

I enjoy the conversation and suggestions thanks.

 

[Goesid]

Hmmm this is interesting and didn't know that. Still learning a lot but I've seen people with 2 crit, or 2 haste in there. So I thought you could wear 2 Mastery? If not as mention above double haste would be good in the build.



Yea If I can't get double mastery cogs then perhaps this is best, although Secondary stat stacking can be very fun would have to play with it. In max level in BFA I even ran less str for secondary stats in some slots because they just offer so much in mitigation, damage and rotation. Crit is very powerful now since it was buffed in SL as well to 175% dmg. Good for healing and dmg. Also Holy Shield dmg can crit and since it will be going off 100s of times in a BG the more that crits the better for damage. Also Versa would increase that as well.



Prot doesn't use mana though. That is why they just nerfed them at Max level because of Drainer playing Prot Pal as a healer in last seasons AWC. Running a hammer build and just WoGing full healing people like he is casting Lay on Hands. Really annoyed because he got my Steed PvP talent nerfed where you had CC immunity. The stupid conduit extended steed making you have 11 secs of CC immunity. So instead of just fixing the conduit they broke the PvP talent and you are no longer immune to CC.




How I get one of those haha. Honestly everything is out of my price range because there is nothing to buy on Darkspear. Literally nada. So farming is the only way. Yea a mastery Prot Pal will have the most sp/ap possible.

On the note of Trinkets, is it possible to do Mechagon or get to the content of Mecha in chromie time? If so I wonder if I can get a Twink version of my old best buddy from BFA in the Pocket-Sized Punch card.

All this pally talk maybe I'll log on him today or at least try to quick build a farmer for the gear for him. See if i have luck. The shoulders for my 2pc on Priest wouldn't drop yesterday lol. Maybe a change in farming for today and see if i get lucky.

I enjoy the conversation and suggestions thanks.

Haste and crit are the only cogs that you can stack, this is because all cogs are unique and 1 of the haste cogs and 1 of the crit cogs are the old hit and expertise cogs, if you want haste you can go haste, mast, vers though.

Afaik all skullflame shields are pre SL items that got scaled down to fit the level 20 requirement in the squish. Maybe someone will find one drop but it hasnt happend yet.
There is no BfA chromie time.

 

[The Abomb]

There is no BfA chromie time.

Oh right it just puts you in BFA normally and you can Que for their dungeons. I guess then you can just progress through BFAs story and get to Mecha?

Haste and crit are the only cogs that you can stack, this is because all cogs are unique and 1 of the haste cogs and 1 of the crit cogs are the old hit and expertise cogs, if you want haste you can go haste, mast, vers though.

Ahhh makes sense.

Afaik all skullflame shields are pre SL items that got scaled down to fit the level 20 requirement in the squish. Maybe someone will find one drop but it hasnt happend yet.

Cool, this is what I think is interesting about Twinking now. The level squish changed everything.

 

[Goesid]

Oh right it just puts you in BFA normally and you can Que for their dungeons. I guess then you can just progress through BFAs story and get to Mecha?

Nah, all zones have a floorlevel, you can see it but just mouseovering the zone on the map. Mechagon floor is level 50.

 

[The Abomb]

Nah, all zones have a floorlevel, you can see it but just mouseovering the zone on the map. Mechagon floor is level 50.

Bummer....The Punch Card trinket was so amazing for making builds. So many cool cards you can put in there along with stats. The dodge card was crazy cause it stacks 99 times great for solo content. Then the Blue swim card and slow fall works in BGs. The stat relocator card let you do some funky things too.

 

[raziel83]

the first test with observing the bracket

Well hopefully your first BG's are after Patch 9.1.5 where it looks like https://www.wowhead.com/item=117551/staff-of-the-one-true-bramble-king is getting nerfed. Or maybe just GF'd. It's ilvl 44 staff that lets survival hunters in this bracket kill people in 2-3 seconds. That's actually one of the reasons I'm leaning towards steady talasites over the 2 str / 2 haste gem. Crusader carries for strength anyway imo.

My hpal has 31% haste and it still doesn't really lower the skill cd's by that much. Like you said, holy power generation as prot in this bracket is very low, even with haste. Especially so without blessed hammer as you need melee range for HoR. That's why I think you need to sometimes flash heal. Not even on yourself but usually off-healing on a team-mate.

Btw what block % do you need to make your max level prot pally work in bgs? What number are you aiming for here?

 

[The Abomb]

Well hopefully your first BG's are after Patch 9.1.5 where it looks like Staff of the One True Bramble King is getting nerfed. Or maybe just GF'd. It's ilvl 44 staff that lets survival hunters in this bracket kill people in 2-3 seconds. That's actually one of the reasons I'm leaning towards steady talasites over the 2 str / 2 haste gem.

Yea the talasites are huge and wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed at some point too. Honestly would even consider wearing them at max level since there are NO stam gems, if you were focusing on HP with all the HP % modifiers they actually might be pretty good with conduits that function off HP. I really wouldn't be surprised with how popular they are that Blizz has their eye on these things and it's been an oversight they haven't been nerfed.

I definitely think some Talesites work their way into any build for EHP. Although the key to tanking anyone in the build is enough mastery for dmg reduction in Cons and Block. Just wish there was a reliable absorb we could also use since they are stronger on Prot Pal then any other class.

My hpal has 31% haste and it still doesn't really lower the skill cd's by that much. Like you said, holy power generation as prot in this bracket is very low, even with haste.

Yea that's a lot of haste. I will mention though the more mastery you have the better str and your other stats are. Mastery is what juices everything since it's the source of big damage and healing. Mastery increases dmg and dmg reduction which makes Versa better since it increases dmg and reduces dmg. Which makes crit and haste better as well.

Btw what block % do you need to make your max level prot pally work in bgs?

In SL I'm at 39% Mastery which is 54% block. I wasn't able to get Mastery trinkets or the gear as well SL is just trash and a gearing nightmare. Which is why I'm now here

Bare minimum you want is 32% where you finally break the 50% block threshold. However the more the better obviously. In BFA I was over 60% Mastery base which gives you 65% block. The softcap DR for Mastery is 70% as this gives you 70% block. Any mastery past this point rewards less and less block from DR as you now begin to approach Block Cap. I could reach Block Cap in BFA with Wings, Seraphim, Azerite armor. Which was why you were nigh-immune to dmg with that offensive CDs up.

A note though is the Cons dmg reduction has no cap or DRs (well there is likely a hard cap like all other dmg mitigation) So not only is Mastery giving you the main source of damage and blocking but the biggest Flat dmg reduction in the game standing in Cons. In BFA I went past Block cap and had over 55% dmg reduction in Cons with CDs popped.

So the idea of the build is stay in Cons vs Casters let them throw dots on you and just face tank them and watch holy shield kill them as you block all Spell dots and Spell then you judgement/AV from far to finish them off. Obviously melee has to come in your Cons so it's just tank and spank them.

For my Twink 50% Mastery is the goal as you have 60% block and 22.6% dmg reduction standing in Cons. That is where you begin to get super beefy. If you can go past 50% Mastery well that is where you step back into feeling like a god again.

 

[raziel83]

So the idea of the build is stay in Cons vs Casters

Can you block hunter's ranged attacks though? I thought you couldn't in wow (which makes no sense since historically shields were primarily created to counter projectiles). Also be mindful that freedom is a lvl 22 spell. Which means you need to use the pvp talent 'hallowed ground' as a ghetto freedom. But if you do that, you're not standing in conc lol.

Unfortunately I can't test mastery prot stuff for like a week or so. I did a combination of buying some tokens and also farming on a lvl 24 prot pally. Yesterday I sold a ilvl 28 neck from Azsuna murlocs for 595 k (socket + leech). That got me another 3 mastery socket pieces.

 

[Goesid]

Can you block hunter's ranged attacks though? I thought you couldn't in wow (which makes no sense since historically shields were primarily created to counter projectiles). Also be mindful that freedom is a lvl 22 spell. Which means you need to use the pvp talent 'hallowed ground' as a ghetto freedom. But if you do that, you're not standing in conc lol.

Unfortunately I can't test mastery prot stuff for like a week or so. I did a combination of buying some tokens and also farming on a lvl 24 prot pally. Yesterday I sold a ilvl 28 neck from Azsuna murlocs for 595 k (socket + leech). That got me another 3 mastery socket pieces.

Gonna just bring in these quotes from last prot pally discussion.

you need to run hallowed ground so that you don't get snared and become a sitting duck.

The point is to kind of be a sitting duck

 

[The Abomb]

Can you block hunter's ranged attacks though? I thought you couldn't in wow (which makes no sense since historically shields were primarily created to counter projectiles)

Pretty much the only thing you can't block is Bleeds. You can block trinket attacks, you can block sieges or cannons, you can block rogue poisons, you can block engineer bombs, you can block all spell dots etc....

Gonna just bring in these quotes from last prot pally discussion.

Yea the quote you bring up is good as I definitely want to sit there. Just be a big ole target in the middle of stuff tanking. Put down Cons and set up shop.

Which means you need to use the pvp talent 'hallowed ground' as a ghetto freedom. But if you do that, you're not standing in conc lol.

I rarely use it. Even though they ruined the CC immune on the Steed talent you are still immune to movement if you cast steed first. So the goal would be to steed to a location put down Cons start fighting. You are always keeping Cons and putting it down where you plan to be.

However I'd likely take Shield of Virtue for the silence as we don't have a kick. Another option is Inquisition as it makes your taunt do 3% more dmg to the target per each enemy hitting it stacking 5 times. So as Prot I use this to kill EFC or Healers as they will take 15% more dmg with 5 ppl hitting them.

Yesterday I sold a ilvl 28 neck from Azsuna murlocs for 595 k (socket + leech). That got me another 3 mastery socket pieces.

WoW that's crazy!! Yea my main farming SL content only has 400k lul. I just made a boomy going to level to 24 to start BoE farming. Maybe I can get lucky, just wish AH on darkspear had BoE to even buy.

 

[Hashbrowns]

If you are open to server choice we'll happily fund you on Blackwing Lair Horde

 

[The Abomb]

If you are open to server choice we'll happily fund you on Blackwing Lair Horde

Thanks for the offer. That is something I will have to think about. Guess it depends how rough the gearing is and well if I'm truly alone in the twinking front here then maybe I will xfer everyone.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Thanks for the offer. That is something I will have to think about. Guess it depends how rough the gearing is and well if I'm truly alone in the twinking front here then maybe I will xfer everyone.

Sounds good, here's a link to our guild https://xpoff.com/threads/horde-war-machine-blackwing-lair-horde-20-guild.93567/
Farming in groups works really well as we usually trade drops to eachother if it's not the armor type we need. I think we have ~64 plate items rn. I'm moving IRL but if you "/who horde war" anyone can inv. If you do end up xfering we might bug ya for some talasite/herbs to bring with, which we can pay back here.

 

[The Abomb]

Farming in groups works really well as we usually trade drops to eachother if it's not the armor type we need. I think we have ~64 plate items rn.

Thanks for the link and that is a crazy amount of plate lol. I'm just getting all this rolling right now between mains both Twinks and now making my BoE farmer just got Boomy too 20 lvl time for lunch.

I'm moving IRL

Good luck and hope you have a smooth move.

 

[The Abomb]

I think we have ~64 plate items rn.

I got my level 24 boomy up and running was doing the murlocs in Azuna but seems to be mostly cloth, ammies. Is there a great spot for Plate? I got now 8 hours left on Sub haha. Last min trying to get some gear before I see where all my builds stand.

So my Spriest at least has a few 28 BoEs now.

 

[Goesid]

I got my level 24 boomy up and running was doing the murlocs in Azuna but seems to be mostly cloth, ammies. Is there a great spot for Plate? I got now 8 hours left on Sub haha. Last min trying to get some gear before I see where all my builds stand.

Kobolds in Highmountains is probably easiest spot.

 

[The Abomb]

Kobolds in Highmountains is probably easiest spot.

Thanks got 1 Plate waist with haste/mastery. Nothing super juicy yet but it's a start

Also is there a consumable guide? I read over this below by Chubarkass but it doesn't exactly tell me how to acquire these consumables and no idea how to get them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...KjxWLCPn-erRxVes2iWkNoTqLw8ar9UI9Cmw/pubhtml#

I don't even know where to get wizard oil these days, is it at a vendor? Do I need a main to make a bunch? It's definitely not on AH on my server so that isn't an option.

Thanks again everyone for the tips.

 

[Goesid]

Thanks got 1 Plate waist with haste/mastery. Nothing super juicy yet but it's a start

Also is there a consumable guide? I read over this below but it doesn't exactly tell me how to acquire these consumables and no idea how to get them.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...KjxWLCPn-erRxVes2iWkNoTqLw8ar9UI9Cmw/pubhtml#

I don't even know where to get wizard oil these days, is it at a vendor? Do I need a main to make a bunch? It's definitely not on AH on my server so that isn't an option.

Thanks again everyone for the tips.

wizard oils are enchanting. some are alchemy some are vendor. Idk i dont use consums

 

[The Abomb]

wizard oils are enchanting.

Yea I know they are enchanting but do I have to level an enchanter or is there a vendor that sells the old ones? Just didn't want to invest in a long grind if I'm missing something simple

Well I did just score a Thundertotem band of Harmonius +16 mastery ring. No socket but my first big Mastery item. The Prot Pal is still nowhere close to the bare minimum I wanted for this test run. A Prot Pal with only 25% Mastery just isn't going to cut it. So I guess I'll likely be Queing with the Spriest since gearing was easy just stack intellect and dot stuff.

I have enjoyed the BoE farm though it's actually really exciting when you see a green drop. Also got a +7 Relic but guess they are worthless maybe I should list it on AH.