Most Complex Class

This coming from a paladin running from a rogue miles away being so scared to throw a heal on himself and dying near the Horde health Hut in the end.
Or from the same paladin trying to gank the same rogue with his hunter buddy, ofc they both failed in the end.

Truth hurts, isnt it?

But still, make that book and read it every day, you might learn something from it eventually.

Now be a good boy and stop crying on the forums ;)

Keep it up bro, i don't know where you find all these bullshit stories but i have to admit you have some nice creativity. I won't go more off-topic since arguing with you is obviously a waste of time
 
So complex means in comparison able to kill all other classes...

Take half your shootrange and tell me: do u really believe hunter would still be the most played class.
Would you still play it?
Don't know where you are getting that from but he never wrote about dueling other classes.

What exactly does the amount of people playing a class have to do with its complexity?
I love the way every topic ends up in flaming. I'd suggest you to go out and get some chicks, maybe ged laid even? Do something productive instead of endless usess fights on TI.

You're all bad at this game even if you think you're so good.

Pff, i've said it, gn ;)

Who was flaming?
 
Don't know where you are getting that from but he never wrote about dueling other classes.

What exactly does the amount of people playing a class have to do with its complexity?

I quoted him saying "duel". Duel means dueling others imo?!

Also my question wasnt meant to get back on that complex-story. That kinda sux and u hunters will never back up from the opinion as well as non-hunter from theirs.
So to get back to my previous post somewhere on page 1328 I wanted to get back to the max-range-thingi which in my eyes is the essential part in playing a hunter..You are op because of that and not in addition to it-nonetheless how many macros buttons or pets u use.
So ask yourself will you play a hunter when the maxrange is just 20 yards and every non-complex clothi [sic!] can cc/reach you?!
But to think of it I kinda dont rly want an answer.
So lets keep calm and merry christmas next week.
 
Hunter --- OP !
Balance/Feral Drood ! Im for feral ... , for balance only if Horde and got ArC Intelect !
Ele SHammy .
Prot pally(Geared) !!!

have to agree on feral/balance/ele, hunters ( if played with full potential) are also complex, im glad i never met such a hunter in the 20-24 bracket (neither in horde nor in alliance) because even jaja / 99% english huntards with zero skill are overpowerd, now imagine you meet one with skill .. ragequit inc

but cmon, prot pally = complex?
 
have to agree on feral/balance/ele, hunters ( if played with full potential) are also complex, im glad i never met such a hunter in the 20-24 bracket (neither in horde nor in alliance) because even jaja / 99% english huntards with zero skill are overpowerd, now imagine you meet one with skill .. ragequit inc

but cmon, prot pally = complex?

Well geared MaX Strenggth prot pally can kill a RDrood. A huntr too. Im talking about myself , idk bout others ... !
 
I quoted him saying "duel". Duel means dueling others imo?!

Also my question wasnt meant to get back on that complex-story. That kinda sux and u hunters will never back up from the opinion as well as non-hunter from theirs.
So to get back to my previous post somewhere on page 1328 I wanted to get back to the max-range-thingi which in my eyes is the essential part in playing a hunter..You are op because of that and not in addition to it-nonetheless how many macros buttons or pets u use.
So ask yourself will you play a hunter when the maxrange is just 20 yards and every non-complex clothi [sic!] can cc/reach you?!
But to think of it I kinda dont rly want an answer.
So lets keep calm and merry christmas next week.
You quoted him saying that bad hunters will never beat great hunters. No other classes involved.

I'm not quite sure where you are trying to get with that max range discussion, every ranged class has 40 yard range.
 
So complex means in comparison able to kill all other classes...

Take half your shootrange and tell me: do u really believe hunter would still be the most played class.
Would you still play it?

??? I actually have no idea how literally any of this statement applies to mine. And, yes, if the nerfed the max range on a hunter, I would still play it. I play my hunter naked, without a pet, in Cata without a bow, white bows, not allowed to use abilities etc. Losing my range, while pretty devastating, wouldn't make a good hunter ineffective.
 
I'm sure you do know that there is a difference between not being able to do something and understanding its simplicity / complexity. Even a person without legs would understand that walking works by putting one foot before the other, if you, however, put a piece of QM in front of a random person...

yes, but my point is, complexity depends on someones PoV. some guy may be a genius, but not be able to change a plug.

Okay sure. I do this pretty much once every three months when this thread crops up and it usually ends the arguments.

Here's the post again though:

SKILL CEILING is the maximum skill level at which a character can be played. In other words, at an inhuman, robot pace of play where no mistakes are made, which class will be the most complex and the hardest to master?. A low skill ceiling would be something like a warrior, where even a tunneling warrior (if geared) is only marginally less effective than a "skilled" warrior.

SKILL FLOOR is the lowest limit at which the class is still effective. In other words, if you are playing a warlock and you are really, really bad (you don't know how to position, you don't fear, you don't keep DoTs up) you are going to have an incredibly bad time (read:useless). On the other hand, a hunter, who is just as bad as our warlock friend, will still be okay, and might even be effective! That means the warlock has a low floor and the hunter has a high floor.

Illustrated in picture terms:

[....................SKILLED....................][AVERAGE][........................................NOOB]
[...........................Hunter's Effectiveness Bar.......................... ]
[.............Warlock's Effectiveness Bar................ ]

As you can see, the warlock's "floor" or point at which he or she is effective skillwise is clearly higher than the hunter. So now we know what those mean.

Why does that mean a hunter is more complex at 20 than a warlock or a mage?

Let's think about it analytically. Name the RESTO shamans off the top of your head that are really good. Maybe you thought of Riptides, Mindy or Phrontistery? What about those shamans impresses you? Take away their gear, take away their ability to FC - focus only on the shaman abilities. What makes them good? It can't just be healing - anyone can predict damage and pre-cast a heal. It can't be positioning and the like; that has nothing to do with the class, it has to do with the player. Here is the question: What about THAT CLASS makes them so much better than other shamans?

Here I think you can figure out at least a little bit about where I am going. What makes a good shaman? I would argue that those three shamans, or a good arena player like myself, Wizkidone, Veinte etc. are going to be more or less at the same level of shaman play. They might have more experience playing 20 shaman and so they might be more natural at it, but overall, you won't be able to tell the difference. I think this has been proven quite often with many, many "good" players rerolling to just about any class at 20 and being one of the elites no matter what they roll. A good shaman knows not just to shear, but when to shear. A good shaman purges, but knows what to purge (the 24 priest is rebuffing Fort? STOP purging it off of everyone and don't go OOM!). You get my point. There's not a lot.

That's the easy way to think about it. Think about the "good" hunters. Lil, humbly submitted, myself, Wizkidtwo, Felix etc. All the hunters that make you miserable. There's 5-10 hunter's a game in WSG. Why do you remember these hunters? Here I think there's a lot more that you can say. "I was killing his pet but he kept dismissing it." "That god-damned 5% crit that he refreshes on everyone." "Scatter, Moth Silence, absurd damage, kiting, keeps SS or Hunter's Mark on me so I can't stealth" etc. There's a lot more. That's because a hunter has a high SKILL CEILING AND a high SKILL FLOOR. That means a shitty hunter can be decent in WSG but it also means that there is a HUGE difference between an average hunter and a god-tier hunter. If you look at my list: Hunter > Mage > Priest > Ele Shaman, you'll notice that the same element is true for most. The difference between poor and average is high, the difference between average and good is higher still, but the difference between REALLY good and good is far, far more obvious and stark.

That's what being complex means. That's why a hunter is complex and a warlock is not. Any good player can play a warlock, focus fear, know DR"s and DoT everything. What's hard about that? Nothing. On the other hand, I guarantee not every good player can play a hunter. I've already seen it happen over and over and over again. Yeah, any good player can beat the garbage players in the gulch. They won't beat a good hunter in arena or a duel.

all well and good, but why do you think a hunter is complex?

play a warlock, focus fear, know DR"s and DoT everything. What's hard about that? Nothing.

knowing what not to dot and when. but that actually makes my point perfectly. all any class needs is focus, assist and mouseover macros.

now i'm sober (hungover) this all seems waaaay less important. you two win i'm off back to bed. o/
 
Why is this even a debate or argument? The most complex class at this level is clearly a hunter.

Are they OP? yes.
Are they easy to play? yes
Is there any difference between a "top" hunt and a "avg" hunt? Hell yes.
Are they the most complex class? Easily

Some people have sooo much hate for hunters they say things like oh there's no such thing as a good hunt or a 5 year old could play it effectively or in this case denying they're clearly the most complex class. Take your hatred away for a moment and make a non biased answer and try to say with everything at a hunts arsenal and everything they have to keep track up and maintain doesn't make the complex. Imo a hunter is the best "leader" class in this bracket because they have the toughest job if they are truly doing their job right.
 

see what i'm saying? any normal person could of made a legitimate argument.... this guy found it to complex.
 
Why is this even a debate or argument? The most complex class at this level is clearly a hunter.

Are they OP? yes.
Are they easy to play? yes
Is there any difference between a "top" hunt and a "avg" hunt? Hell yes.
Are they the most complex class? Easily

Some people have sooo much hate for hunters they say things like oh there's no such thing as a good hunt or a 5 year old could play it effectively or in this case denying they're clearly the most complex class. Take your hatred away for a moment and make a non biased answer and try to say with everything at a hunts arsenal and everything they have to keep track up and maintain doesn't make the complex. Imo a hunter is the best "leader" class in this bracket because they have the toughest job if they are truly doing their job right.

dude just leave you play with roar on autocast and u think u have a tough job
 
Why is this even a debate or argument? The most complex class at this level is clearly a hunter.

Are they OP? yes.
Are they easy to play? yes
Is there any difference between a "top" hunt and a "avg" hunt? Hell yes.
Are they the most complex class? Easily

Some people have sooo much hate for hunters they say things like oh there's no such thing as a good hunt or a 5 year old could play it effectively or in this case denying they're clearly the most complex class. Take your hatred away for a moment and make a non biased answer and try to say with everything at a hunts arsenal and everything they have to keep track up and maintain doesn't make the complex. Imo a hunter is the best "leader" class in this bracket because they have the toughest job if they are truly doing their job right.

been maining a hunter since tbh. they are NOT complex or difficult in any way, shape, or form!
 
Everything is easy for him but cant play anything to its max, its probably cuz hes not playing the same game as us.

it seems he been playing a game named TBH... that explains alot.

i'll play along.. what class do you play to the max my unintelligible little friend?

i have no idea what the 2nd line's s'posed to mean. and unfortunately the only person in my household who speaks that language is at nursery ATM.
 

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