Mists of Pandaria - Resilience

[Nesyla]

Alright so i haven't seen any discussion for the bracket on the arguement, and i'm interested in hearing people's oppinion on the so far announced possible and probably changes.

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Resilience

• We are renaming this stat to “Defense (PvP)” or possibly “PvP Defense.” All players will have 30% base Defense, the same way all characters have some base Stamina.
• PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP).” Power increases the damage you do to other players as well as the healing you do to other players in PvP situations.
• If you have a lot of Power, you’ll do more damage to other players, but they likely have Defense as well. If you fight players in lots of PvE gear, they’ll take more damage. Likewise, a player in PvE gear won’t have enough Power to effectively penetrate your Defense.
• The names PvP Power and PvP Defense may not be final, but we’re leaning towards going with stat names that are obviously PvP-related, rather than “fluffier” names that might not be as easy to grasp. We want it to be clear to players that neither Power nor Defense have any relevance when fighting creatures, such as in dungeons or raids.
• PvP gear will be lower in item level than PvE gear of an equivalent tier, however the Power and Defense stats will make sure that PvP gear is more powerful in PvP (both offensively and defensively) than PvE gear. In our budgeting system, the PvP stats will be free rather than causing other stats, such as Strength or haste, to be smaller as a result of including Power or Defense.
• The goal of this change is to make it easier for a PvP player to participate in PvE, or for a PvE player to get started in PvP. Currently, we feel it is too large a barrier to go from one to the other, and the result has been that we see more and more players choosing to focus exclusively on only PvP or PvE. In earlier expansions, it was more feasible to use PvE gear in Arenas or Battlegrounds until you acquired the more useful PvP gear. The same was true of being able to use your PvP gear in a dungeon or raid until you acquired something better. In Cataclysm, stepping into PvP with no PvP gear would result in a player being so ineffective that it was difficult to even make progress towards acquiring PvP gear.
• For the higher-end of PvP or PvE (say Gladiators or heroic raiders), we believe those players will still gravitate towards the dedicated PvP or PvE gear. It is the players who are working towards those two end games that will benefit more from some cross over.

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Criticals

• All spells and abilities will crit for double damage, baseline. There are a few exceptions where crits can get larger, but the default is x 2.0 for everyone.
• This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance.

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Those are the most considerable changes worth taking into discussion, we could talk about the hit and expertise cap but i dont see any real massive change, they are from what i see trying to make it easier for people.

So yeah, what are your thoughts about the changes ? Positive and Negative points ?

I take no credit for what's above writen, it's a blank copy paste from mmo.

 

[Amaya]

I wonder if this'll force twinks into full PvP gear at 80.

 

[Falkor]

interesting...not sure if i like it at all though

 

[Splosion]

I wonder if this'll force twinks into full PvP gear at 80.

I have a feeling that's the idea.

 

[Oliks]

I wonder if this'll force twinks into full PvP gear at 80.

Would be nice

 

[Zmirnøff]

Blizzard has never been known for updating old content, especially gear.

Mage gear with spirit for example.

So I'm thinking, our PvP gear won't be any different than it is now, which according to their explanation will make defensive PvP stat even higher in value because we won't have any offensive PvP stats.

I reckon if all characters across the board get a baseline 30% defensive PvP, we'd just grab 4pc 270 and full Cata gear and that'd be enough to have competitive PvP.

Ya never know, maybe it's a good thing for twinks not to have offensive PvP stats, we already hit way too hard... Defensive PvP stat is going to be Godly though if stacked, healers and tanks in particular with be irritating as hell to kill.

 

[Vaxyo]

"PvP gear will have Defense on it, as well as a new stat, “Power (PvP)."

@BMEU: Don't forget that Blizzard updated the entire world including items with odd stat combinations such as agility and spirit; e.g. Paladin Marshal/Field Marshal gear etc., so while I'm sure they overlooked a few items, I'd bet that any resilience found on current gear will simply be converted into these 2 new PvP stats. It's a re-hash of the resilience stat as a whole, so it will probably be easy to simply convert every single bit of resilience using a stat conversion formula. So for instance at a rate of 10 resilience = 5 PvP defense & 5 PvP offense

A stat change like this is likely to be pushed out in the traditional pre-expansion major patch anyway, and I honestly can't imagine that resilience gear at max level would be left without the offensive pvp stat component and only sport the defensive one, so again I believe it will be in Blizzard's best interest to simply convert existing resilience as a whole.

 

[Falkor]

Blizzard has never been known for updating old content, especially gear.

Mage gear with spirit for example.

some stuff slips through the cracks, but actually blizzard has been good about updating gear. in almost every expansion they've taken time to go back and reitemize gear, update quests and loads of other things for old content including the most massive overhaul precata.

plus this isnt just a small change, they're removing the resil stat and adding defense/power. so they wouldnt just leave two systems active and have everything 1-85 have resil then 86-90 have defense...just doesnt make sense

So I'm thinking, our PvP gear won't be any different than it is now, which according to their explanation will make defensive PvP stat even higher in value because we won't have any offensive PvP stats.

they should change all the gear, meaning we should have defense and power too

I reckon if all characters across the board get a baseline 30% defensive PvP, we'd just grab 4pc 270 and full Cata gear and that'd be enough to have competitive PvP.

depends on how defense works. if you can wear full wrathful to get high defense you may be able to negate a lot of dmg someone wearing 4 set is doing (due to lack of power), and force them into using more pvp gear. and since pvp gear has no mastery (and who knows if you can even reforge power/defense to mastery or what 2ndary stats would be if at all) it should really bring all the classes into a lot closer balance instead of how it is now. we'll also have smaller hp pools due to lower ilvl. so smaller hp but less damage coming in and out could make for pvp more like endgame instead of 1/2 shotting people. but at the same time those big numbers are fun, and it would kinda suck to lose them in pvp...but we'll see how it all works

 

[Amaya]

If this does force twinks into full PvP gear it will be a huge nerf to specs that benefit heavily from mastery for burst, Arcane, Frost Mage, Frost DK, Shadow Priest, etc.

It will not really hurt specs that avoid mastery, MM Hunters, Fire Mages, Sub Rogues (to an extent), would probably become the top 3 damage specs.

 

[Falkor]

I hope they lower the cost of wrathful to help new players/old ones w/o it, if full wrathful becomes the best option that is

 

[Nesyla]

If this does force twinks into full PvP gear it will be a huge nerf to specs that benefit heavily from mastery for burst, Arcane, Frost Mage, Frost DK, Shadow Priest, etc.

You mean the classes that can get a 30 - 35 % mastery at the moment and hit a 1.6 k resi geared player for 18 - 19 k ?

I'm not going to feel sad to see the bracket turning into something more balanced where cc will be needed to kill someone instead of double mage teams globalling someone in a deep.

I hope they lower the cost of wrathful to help new players/old ones w/o it, if full wrathful becomes the best option that is

I'm unsure on this point, i mean yes if they reduce the cost we will probably see more people joining the bracket and i would love to see the 80's have the same activity of the 70's bracket, yet i think that a too low cost may introduce un-skilled twinks who might ruin several games.

But i guess that this will happen based on what they did with the 70's gear cost, let's hope that they leave the 2 min purple trinket instead of giving a less efficent blue one.

 

[Splosion]

You mean the classes that can get a 30 - 35 % mastery at the moment and hit a 1.6 k resi geared player for 18 - 19 k ?

I'm not going to feel sad to see the bracket turning into something more balanced where cc will be needed to kill someone instead of double mage teams globalling someone in a deep.

They're fairly easy to survive, just roll with resist ring + boots with aura, you won't get deeped or globaled in a deep. But it's simply talent imbalances, which are being fixed anyway.

I'm unsure on this point, i mean yes if they reduce the cost we will probably see more people joining the bracket and i would love to see the 80's have the same activity of the 70's bracket, yet i think that a too low cost may introduce un-skilled twinks who might ruin several games.

But i guess that this will happen based on what they did with the 70's gear cost, let's hope that they leave the 2 min purple trinket instead of giving a less efficent blue one.

The 70s trinket was removed as a result of a vendor fail. Unless stuff goes seriously wrong, I doubt the 264 trinket will be removed (as there isn't any others besides the WG trinkets)

Oh, and the 80s bracket is already full of un-skilled retards. Have you tried queueing with a fresh team?

 

[Nesyla]

They're fairly easy to survive, just roll with resist ring + boots with aura, you won't get deeped or globaled in a deep. But it's simply talent imbalances, which are being fixed anyway.

The 70s trinket was removed as a result of a vendor fail. Unless stuff goes seriously wrong, I doubt the 264 trinket will be removed (as there isn't any others besides the WG trinkets)

Oh, and the 80s bracket is already full of un-skilled retards. Have you tried queueing with a fresh team?

Please dont tell me that 18 k frostbolt + 13 k ice lance on wile wearing 46 % damage reduction is " fairly " easy to survive Splosion, it's absolutely not normal, a retri paladin as an example cant get that much as he would be unable to kill anything, so he is setting at say 27-39 % and he get's globalled.

The 70's trinket was removed as choise from blizzard, hence why it's on the ptr but not on live realms, open a ticket and you will have a blue answering " yes we did remove it ".

Wile talking about the un-skilled people yes there might be a few but it's no way as it could be if the cost of wrathfull gear was 1/10 of what it is now.

 

[Splosion]

Please dont tell me that 18 k frostbolt + 13 k ice lance on wile wearing 46 % damage reduction is " fairly " easy to survive Splosion, it's absolutely not normal, a retri paladin as an example cant get that much as he would be unable to kill anything, so he is setting at say 27-39 % and he get's globalled.

I've yet to have trouble with double mage teams (outside of dispelling my rogue). It's all about gearing right (unfortunately), and playing well. Throw a couple frost resist enchants on and you're fine. Rogues/level 84s with full 333s are more of a pain than mages (especially since denounce locks a mage down to useless levels of damage, and they can't reset once you use bubble)

The 70's trinket was removed as choise from blizzard, hence why it's on the ptr but not on live realms, open a ticket and you will have a blue answering " yes we did remove it ".

That isn't what the last GM I asked about it told me. Hell, there's threads on the official forums saying they know it's a bug, but they suck at fixing bugs as we know.

Wile talking about the un-skilled people yes there might be a few but it's no way as it could be if the cost of wrathfull gear was 1/10 of what it is now.

You realize that brutal is put at that cost because it brings the gear level of players up higher when they hit 70, ready to tackle the 70-80 content. Wrathful is superfluous for this, as you can get a large amount of very good greens/blues for that. The cost has less to do with twinking than it does with leveling.

 

[Nesyla]

I would to be honest love to see you surviving a deep freeze by cyanerds without having your trinket, aura mastery or bubble up, gearing right and playing well has nothing to do with it, if you have two frost mages getting a deep on you and 1-2 lance each you are dead, no matter what.

I did see your player vs. player gear and there is no chance of you being able to survive a best in slot geared mage in a deep without having your 2's partner ( rogue ) assisting you, assuming you have no cooldowns left, proove me wrong. Untill than the only class being able to survive a deep without using cooldowns are shamans duo to earth shield ticking for 17-18 k.

A bug since cataclysm ? I agree that blizzard is " slow " on fixing bugs, but it's been a whole expansion now,

so you are telling me that blizzard decided to put 70's pvp gear to help people level from 70 to 80 ? You cant honestly be serious on this, blizzard would never put pvp gear to help players go thru a pve zone, not to mention that a lot of people level 1-85 without doing a single battleground, you might be a bi confused on this point.

Edit : let's say you manage somehow to exit the deep freeze with 1 % hp, your sitting in a silence, dead.

 

[Splosion]

I would to be honest love to see you surviving a deep freeze by cyanerds without having your trinket, aura mastery or bubble up, gearing right and playing well has nothing to do with it, if you have two frost mages getting a deep on you and 1-2 lance each you are dead, no matter what.

If I'm queuing at 2k rating, I'm wearing close to 600 frost resistance. Those lances are around 4k, and I resist the deep freeze. Gearing right has everything to do with it.

I did see your player vs. player gear and there is no chance of you being able to survive a best in slot geared mage in a deep without having your 2's partner ( rogue ) assisting you, assuming you have no cooldowns left, proove me wrong. Untill than the only class being able to survive a deep without using cooldowns are shamans duo to earth shield ticking for 17-18 k.

I don't log in my pvp gear often, only the resilience set. Divine protection is also godmode against mages, go have a look at the glyph.

A bug since cataclysm ? I agree that blizzard is " slow " on fixing bugs, but it's been a whole expansion now,

Doesn't change anything, the inspect bug has been around that long aswell.

so you are telling me that blizzard decided to put 70's pvp gear to help people level from 70 to 80 ? You cant honestly be serious on this, blizzard would never put pvp gear to help players go thru a pve zone, not to mention that a lot of people level 1-85 without doing a single battleground, you might be a bi confused on this point.

Brutal has very good stats, given that it's swp-level and epic. It's enough.

Edit : let's say you manage somehow to exit the deep freeze with 1 % hp, your sitting in a silence, dead.

As I said, I don't get die in deeps from double mage. Mage rogue is the weakness however, as rogues are far more deadly to me than mages are.

 

[Nesyla]

If I'm queuing at 2k rating, I'm wearing close to 600 frost resistance. Those lances are around 4k, and I resist the deep freeze. Gearing right has everything to do with it.

4 k ice lances ? I hardly believe it.

 

[Amaya]

How are you wearing 600 FR without gimping your own stats into the ground?

 

[Splosion]

4 k ice lances ? I hardly believe it.

Yes. 600 frost resistance is 57% damage reduction. Add that to my resilience, and you get 4k lances (protip, resistances are godmode against mages)

How are you wearing 600 FR without gimping your own stats into the ground?

I wear 4 piece wrathful, and use all the crafted icebane pieces, cloak enchant, helm enchant, and bracer enchant. The difference from my holy shocks(and all my healing) with full resilience gear was around 600 healing. I can live with that.

 

[Nesyla]

Yes. 600 frost resistance is 57% damage reduction. Add that to my resilience, and you get 4k lances (protip, resistances are godmode against mages)


I wear 4 piece wrathful, and use all the crafted icebane pieces, cloak enchant, helm enchant, and bracer enchant. The difference from my holy shocks(and all my healing) with full resilience gear was around 600 healing. I can live with that.

I'm yet to see a proof, untill than i remain sceptic.