Mists of Pandaria - Resilience

[Splosion]

I'm yet to see a proof, untill than i remain sceptic.

You go ahead and be skeptic, but I'll post a screenshot for you if you'd like.

Without frost resist gear: http://i.imgur.com/KvMTf.jpg
With frost resist gear: http://i.imgur.com/cz60G.jpg
All other healing spells are similar, with different co-efficients.

I don't see how it could be clearer. As for the ice lance crap, I haven't done arenas in over a week, but I'll take some screenshots when I do (and encounter the "impossible" double mage setup)

Edit: And before you cry fake with the screenshot having power torrent procced, the spell I just cast never benefitted from it. I'll be happy to make a second screenshot if you really want me to.

 

[Nesyla]

I'm sorry but what did you just proove me ?

That you have the gear ?

I want to see your logs saying you got a 4 k critical ice lance.

Oh and just cause i'm curious, do you actually join the fight with that gear right away loosing 184 resi or do you join with your usual set-up, loose the first match, put on your frost gear and hope it's the same team ?

Edit : you spoke about 600 frost resistance, i can see 470, you might have forgot some ?

Edit : on a side note that's a very pretty UI you got there.

 

[Splosion]

I'm sorry but what did you just proove me ?

That you have the gear ?

I want to see your logs saying you got a 4 k critical ice lance.

Oh and just cause i'm curious, do you actually join the fight with that gear right away loosing 184 resi or do you join with your usual set-up, loose the first match, put on your frost gear and hope it's the same team ?

Edit : you spoke about 600 frost resistance, i can see 470, you might have forgot some ?

Edit : on a side note that's a very pretty UI you got there.

It was more for the loss in healing. I barely noticed the swap.

I tend to just queue in my frost resist gear (protip, we have 130 extra resistance from an aura).

I'll post a screenshot as soon as my partner wants to do some games (Which is unlikely atm).

I use tukui, with a few mods.

 

[Amaya]

4/5 Wrathful Frost crits IL for 22k /w only 22 Mastery.
Mastery Stacking (31 mastery) crits 24-25k.

These are both self buffed, no debuffs on target.

Even with 60% damage reduction, you're still going to eat 10k Ice Lance crits unless the 4k number you're throwing out is a partial resist.

 

[Splosion]

4/5 Wrathful Frost crits IL for 22k /w only 22 Mastery.
Mastery Stacking (31 mastery) crits 24-25k.

These are both self buffed, no debuffs on target.

Even with 60% damage reduction, you're still going to eat 10k Ice Lance crits unless the 4k number you're throwing out is a partial resist.

4/5 wrathful with full offset (minus 1 ring), then resi stacking? I still get 40% DR from resi.

But, given that I have such high resistance, and that most mages don't go for spell pen (especially not 600 spell pen), I do resist everything. Try and math it all you want, I've yet to die to double frost mage since I went with this much FR.

 

[Nesyla]

It was more for the loss in healing. I barely noticed the swap.

I tend to just queue in my frost resist gear (protip, we have 130 extra resistance from an aura).

I'll post a screenshot as soon as my partner wants to do some games (Which is unlikely atm).

I use tukui, with a few mods.

You would really give up your concentration aura and run without aura mastery's benefit ?

4/5 Wrathful Frost crits IL for 22k /w only 22 Mastery.
Mastery Stacking (31 mastery) crits 24-25k.

These are both self buffed, no debuffs on target.

Even with 60% damage reduction, you're still going to eat 10k Ice Lance crits unless the 4k number you're throwing out is a partial resist.

That was more or less my point.

 

[Splosion]

You would really give up your concentration aura and run without aura mastery's benefit ?

Concentration isn't that useful outside of AM. But hey, I switch (I also use mostly instant cast spells).

That was more or less my point.

As I said, you can math it all you want.

 

[Nesyla]

Concentration isn't that useful outside of AM. But hey, I switch (I also use mostly instant cast spells).


As I said, you can math it all you want.

I guess that you use aura mastery when pressure is up right ? and you would switch loosing a whole global right by when they are going for a kill ?

We aint trying to proove a point, you are, i will gladly wait untill you give us a proof of a 4 k ice lance crit on you, untill than, i remain sceptic.

 

[Aelobin]

(25k Ice Lance crit) * (1-0.4077 resilience) * (1-0.6 average frost resist) = 5,923 damage
(22k Ice Lance crit) * (1-0.4077 resilience) * (1-0.6 average frost resist) = 5,212 damage

Not exactly 4k, but it isn't far off (and would most likely be less than 4k for a non-crit). You've then also got a 60% chance to resist Frost Nova, Deep Freeze and Water Elemental Freeze. That means no frozen modifier (unless FoF is up) and no stun (= ability to actually heal the damage).

Regarding the loss in other stats: what are the 3 top burst classes in the 80 bracket? Frost Mage, Frost DK and Rogue.

Oh and I find it quite amusing that you're telling Splosion he has to prove himself, Nesyla, when you failed to do so in that "use Val'anyr in PvP" thread.

 

[Zmirnøff]

Fight, fight, fight!

As for the updating of stats, I meant mainly the endgame tiers/epics, I know they've done well to update quest gear etc.

Spirit on mage gear, int on hunter gear etc...

 

[Nesyla]

(25k Ice Lance crit) * (1-0.4077 resilience) * (1-0.6 average frost resist) = 5,923 damage
(22k Ice Lance crit) * (1-0.4077 resilience) * (1-0.6 average frost resist) = 5,212 damage

Not exactly 4k, but it isn't far off (and would most likely be less than 4k for a non-crit). You've then also got a 60% chance to resist Frost Nova, Deep Freeze and Water Elemental Freeze. That means no frozen modifier (unless FoF is up) and no stun (= ability to actually heal the damage).

Regarding the loss in other stats: what are the 3 top burst classes in the 80 bracket? Frost Mage, Frost DK and Rogue.

Oh and I find it quite amusing that you're telling Splosion he has to prove himself, Nesyla, when you failed to do so in that "use Val'anyr in PvP" thread.

I haven't failed to proove anything, i gave my point of view, as simple as that, my oppinion, i diden't state anyhthing which is what splosion did.

You can do all the maths you want, but i will remain on my idea untill i see a screenshot of a combat log.

 

[Aelobin]

I haven't failed to proove anything, i gave my point of view, as simple as that, my oppinion, i diden't state anyhthing which is what splosion did.

You stated that using Val'anyr to stack up the absorb at the start of an arena battle would be beneficial. I (and others in that thread) outlined some major flaws in doing so, and you failed to counter those points or provide any "proof".

Splosion chooses to use frost resist gear, and has given his reasons explaining why. You think it's not worth it, so you need to prove why it isn't.

You can do all the maths you want, but i will remain on my idea untill i see a screenshot of a combat log.

So logic, maths and facts won't satisfy you? I'm honestly baffled. Here's a little more theory for you:

In order for a mage to derp freeze you, you have to be "frozen" or they need FoF up.
- Frost Nova = 60% chance to be resisted.
- Water Elemental Freeze = 60% chance to be resisted. I'm not sure if the mage still gains FoF if it is resisted, but they definitely don't get the FoF buff if it doesnt hit any targets.
- Frostbolt = 20% chance to proc FoF.

So the mage succeeds with one of the above? There's then a 60% chance that their 30 second cooldown "I-win-button" will be resisted. That would mean no stun, no crit/lance/mastery modifier from being frozen, and wasting Cold Snap if they want to try their luck again.

Now if they do manage to get you in a derp freeze, the Ice Lances will hit you for 76.31% less damage. It's also likely that they wasted a stack of FoF, which means no 25% bonus for one of the lances.

 

[Nesyla]

You stated that using Val'anyr to stack up the absorb at the start of an arena battle would be beneficial. I (and others in that thread) outlined some major flaws in doing so, and you failed to counter those points or provide any "proof".

Splosion chooses to use frost resist gear, and has given his reasons explaining why. You think it's not worth it, so you need to prove why it isn't.



So logic, maths and facts won't satisfy you? I'm honestly baffled. Here's a little more theory for you:

In order for a mage to derp freeze you, you have to be "frozen" or they need FoF up.
- Frost Nova = 60% chance to be resisted.
- Water Elemental Freeze = 60% chance to be resisted. I'm not sure if the mage still gains FoF if it is resisted, but they definitely don't get the FoF buff if it doesnt hit any targets.
- Frostbolt = 20% chance to proc FoF.

So the mage succeeds with one of the above? There's then a 60% chance that their 30 second cooldown "I-win-button" will be resisted. That would mean no stun, no crit/lance/mastery modifier from being frozen, and wasting Cold Snap if they want to try their luck again.

Now if they do manage to get you in a derp freeze, the Ice Lances will hit you for 76.31% less damage. It's also likely that they wasted a stack of FoF, which means no 25% bonus for one of the lances.

Indeed i said that i thought that using val'anyr at the beginning of a battle would be beneficial, what in " my oppinion " is not clear ?

Splosion on the other hand is saying that he get's 4 k ice lances crits wile using 600 resistance, which i dont believe, and ask for a proof.

Indeed logic and maths wont satisfy me, give me a combat log and i'll be glad to admit i was wrong.

On the other hand i'm getting annoyed at the team up on these forums, having a discussion with one of you 2-3 get's the other ones right into the discussion to defend each other, i find it great to see such solidariety, but annoying at the same time.

Edit: Unnecessary

 

[Splosion]

Indeed i said that i thought that using val'anyr at the beginning of a battle would be beneficial, what in " my oppinion " is not clear ?

Splosion on the other hand is saying that he get's 4 k ice lances crits wile using 600 resistance, which i dont believe, and ask for a proof.

Indeed logic and maths wont satisfy me, give me a combat log and i'll be glad to admit i was wrong.

I've been sat in a bg queue to attempt to get you your so-important "proof" for a while now. Unfortunately, the only BG I've managed to get in has proved rather fruitless for mages (outside 1 arcane mage who I didn't even come close to dying to, lol)

On the other hand i'm getting annoyed at the team up on these forums, having a discussion with one of you 2-3 get's the other ones right into the discussion to defend each other, i find it great to see such solidariety, but annoying at the same time.

Lets wonder why that is shall we?

Quote of unnecessary comment.

But, I've a feeling you're taking it a little personally, so to PMs if you want to talk about cross-realm raiding, please.

 

[Nesyla]

I've been sat in a bg queue to attempt to get you your so-important "proof" for a while now. Unfortunately, the only BG I've managed to get in has proved rather fruitless for mages (outside 1 arcane mage who I didn't even come close to dying to, lol)
Lets wonder why that is shall we?
I don't remember wiping to that. By the way, what are you going to do once you have BiS gear? Since you aren't coming to the relevent level raids, I doubt all those 277s will be of any use to you.
But, I've a feeling you're taking it a little personally, so to PMs if you want to talk about cross-realm raiding, please.

I do wonder why :<
Oh i'm already BIS if that is your wonder > and my next project is to get bis retri and bis prot ( just 1-2 items off ) and the only reason why i aint joining the cross realm raids is because of Aelobin, so yes it is slightly personal and i dont see how talking with you thru pm's about cross realm raiding would be any use ?

I will however end it here, as a proof that any discussion that i bring up even it being positive get's into a heavy and annoying discussion.

 

[Splosion]

I do wonder why :<
Oh i'm already BIS if that is your wonder > and my next project is to get bis retri and bis prot ( just 1-2 items off ) and the only reason why i aint joining the cross realm raids is because of Aelobin, so yes it is slightly personal and i dont see how talking with you thru pm's about cross realm raiding would be any use ?

I will however end it here, as a proof that any discussion that i bring up even it being positive get's into a heavy and annoying discussion.

I meant overall, and I meant talking to Aelobin, since the topic has apparently changed, I dunno.

 

[Aelobin]

Indeed i said that i thought that using val'anyr at the beginning of a battle would be beneficial, what in " my oppinion " is not clear ?

It was an opinion that was wrong, yet you insisted on sticking by it after adequate proof pointing to it not being viable.

Splosion on the other hand is saying that he get's 4 k ice lances crits wile using 600 resistance, which i dont believe, and ask for a proof.

I think 4k was a pretty fair estimate considering the 5.9k theoretical damage I calculated. I use the word "estimate" because there's no way he can provide you with a solid number due to differences in mastery, spell power, spell pen and the way partial resists work.

Indeed logic and maths wont satisfy me, give me a combat log and i'll be glad to admit i was wrong.

And why exactly does he need to do this for you? I highly doubt he cares if you believe him or not. If you don't, go test it yourself or just dismiss it and move on.

On the other hand i'm getting annoyed at the team up on these forums, having a discussion with one of you 2-3 get's the other ones right into the discussion to defend each other,

That's probably because these are public forums that anyone can freely contribute to (hence me being in this thread even though I don't PvP or play a frost mage). We only have a handful of posters in the 80 bracket here, so of course you're going to see the same names popping up. And for the record, there's a difference between correcting someone who is wrong and defending each other.

i find it great to see such solidariety, but annoying at the same time.

And I find it annoying that this isn't the first time you've started misleading people who just come here looking for some information.

Quote of Unnecessary Comment

I'm not going to respond to the obvious personal attacks on both me and the 80 raiding community, but the blood presence "rumor" is probably something you overheard on our Mumble/stream during one of the raids. Back when Legacy was an 80 raiding guild, we were attempting Herald of the Titans and I was the second one to be tanking Algalon. For that reason, I switched to unholy presence at the start to help dps whilst not overaggroing the tank. When it was my turn to taunt, I forgot to switch back, and didn't realise until we downed the boss. Being the humorous bunch we are, we still joke about it now and then.

 

[Nesyla]

It was an opinion that was wrong, yet you insisted on sticking by it after adequate proof pointing to it not being viable.



I think 4k was a pretty fair estimate considering the 5.9k theoretical damage I calculated. I use the word "estimate" because there's no way he can provide you with a solid number due to differences in mastery, spell power, spell pen and the way partial resists work.



And why exactly does he need to do this for you? I highly doubt he cares if you believe him or not. If you don't, go test it yourself or just dismiss it and move on.



That's probably because these are public forums that anyone can freely contribute to (hence me being in this thread even though I don't PvP or play a frost mage). We only have a handful of posters in the 80 bracket here, so of course you're going to see the same names popping up. And for the record, there's a difference between correcting someone who is wrong and defending each other.



And I find it annoying that this isn't the first time you've started misleading people who just come here looking for some information.



I'm not going to respond to the obvious personal attacks on both me and the 80 raiding community, but the blood presence "rumor" is probably something you overheard on our Mumble/stream during one of the raids. Back when Legacy was an 80 raiding guild, we were attempting Herald of the Titans and I was the second one to be tanking Algalon. For that reason, I switched to unholy presence at the start to help dps whilst not overaggroing the tank. When it was my turn to taunt, I forgot to switch back, and didn't realise until we downed the boss. Being the humorous bunch we are, we still joke about it now and then.

Miss leading ? Who exactly did i miss lead when all i did was being sceptic on what Splosion said ? I miss it.

And on the second point, why would a " personal " attack to you be an attack to the community as well ? Please dont tell me that you are convinced as Lunshj said a few times to me that " Aelobin is the 80's community, if you insult him you insult the community ". Because that would be quite egocentric.

And no i did not hear it from mumble / ventrilo, but from talking with someone who told me it happened in your icecrown raid, hence why i named it " rumor ".

Edit : might have been Xipe or Lunshj, cant really remember as it's been more than a month.

 

[Silinrul]

Oh how I love a good debate! Lets keep it professional though shall we? <3

 

[Nesyla]

Alright well i do feel the need to say that i indeed tested what Splosion said about frost resistance gear and.

I was absolutely wrong, it does work ( you dont get 4 k ice lances ) but the difference is absolutely amazing and the ammount of full resists is quite incredible.

So taking back all i said, it's worth it !