Lore Breakdown of New Cinematic (WoD)

[Rollop]

Yes to all except this

He's on the side of the Orc's

Guldan has always been about himself, which is why he sold his race too the demons in the original timeline

but he's also half demonic which is why Hellscream doesn't trust him.

Hellscream didn't trust him because Garrosh has already tipped them off in the 2nd timeline

He's actually a pretty bad ass villain, no cheesy "was good but went bad" because old gods/burning legion corruption. Which is like 99% of all wow villains. He's just a power hungry dude that wants to rule as much as he can.

Originally they were all coerced by Guldan into thinking that the Draenei were planning on wiping them out, this wasn't true of course, but orcs aren't very bright. The only one that was bright (Durotan) drank the demon blood anyway, knowing full well the truth of the Draenei, but feared his wife/clan being slaughtered for not joining.


While the cinematic looked great, and the time travel/dimension hopping story somewhat interesting, i'm disappointed they're focusing on Orcs yet again, and in the process retconning one of very few epic moments for the Alliance. It's the entire reason an Alliance was even formed, to defend Azeroth against the evil, bloodthirsty Horde.

I mean really, not a single Alliance character in the cinematic? They could have showed Velen using his "prophet" powers and sensing the Horde threat that is amassing, Or maybe Maarad off in the distance watching as it all unfolded. Something, ANYthing would have been great. Anyway, i'll play through it just to see how the story develops, even if the Alliance gets another shitty expansion, lore wise.

/end rant


Edit: Also, if they could make Orcs look as bad ass as they do in that cinematic, i'd totally play one. You can be a giant brute without a hideous hunchback. <_< Same goes for cows and trolls.

 

[Pooh]

I thought WoD was a sort of an alternate prequel to MoP. So he'd be younger and not in command. And would have not drank anything yet. Hence why it says 35 years ago at the start.

omg you need to check out Nobbel's Warcrimes lore video its so great and worth the watch (unless you are a lore nerd and want to read the book dont watch it)

 

[Xenophon]

Such terminator, much rip.

Anyone think the score was too much like LoTR?

That Lords of War clip was pretty cool (although I am ignoring the stylistic rip-off in that).

 

[SPQR]

Anyone think the score was too much like LoTR?

That Lords of War clip was pretty cool (although I am ignoring the stylistic rip-off in that).

Yep, why create new things when you can take old and change it abit. not like any gona have ballz go against arny of lawyers blizz got. There is you warlords lol..

Cool signature btw.



On other completely different note, if someone lore wise person can answer question.
Since they killed of Mannoroth, there is no logical way for all those tanning bed orcs come back in current universe all players are now in.

Since we already lived through burning crusade and all those things. Thus the orcs are in spin of. Live in their own universe and cant contact current one - logical. Why rush via portal to kill em? let they live in their own timeline conquer and kill all, and let the garosh be their leader, since he so much diehard.

None of those who in our timeline will be affected. and if we could, then alliance and everything els must go lol transparent like back in future movie as soon Mannoroth are dead.

Make expansion about fishing instead. will be first to pay for it. lol.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Crap I'm way off. Watch the video below. Thanks [MENTION=20517]Pooh[/MENTION] lol
I had a lot of fun thinking I figured all this out today but it's not right. Garrosh is the same Garrosh that was from Cata. He jumped in a portal to go back in time to stop his father from drinking demon blood. Gul'dan says this was not our destiny cause he knows this is not how it was supposed to go down. Garrosh says "times change" cause he's altering this decision. They are going to rise up the brown orcs and resist the demon blood that makes them green and starts their slavery into the Burning Legion. Sorry if everyone already knew this... lol

The Story of War Crimes [Lore] - YouTube

 

[Pooh]

Crap I'm way off. Watch the video below. Thanks [MENTION=20517]Pooh[/MENTION] lol
I had a lot of fun thinking I figured all this out today but it's not right. Garrosh is the same Garrosh that was from Cata. He jumped in a portal to go back in time to stop his father from drinking demon blood. Gul'dan says this was not our destiny cause he knows this is not how it was supposed to go down. Garrosh says "times change" cause he's ultering this decision. They are going to rise up the brown orcs and resist the demon blood that makes them green and starts their slavery into the Burning Legion. Sorry if everyone already knew this... lol

The Story of War Crimes [Lore] - YouTube

here is what i dont get too, Gul'dan agreed to give the demon blood to all the other orcs only so he can gain power (he wanted even more power to rule), but when he said it was not their destiny i think hr meant as in them not drinking the blood and Mannoroth dying, so when Garrosh says "Time's Changed" i think he meant it as, "this will not be our past" and that he will fix the mistakes his father did after drinking the demonic blood that led to the acual lore events by killing off Mannoroth and leading the orcs into another path which is his Iron Horde. But people are saying that "This is not our Destiny" is the orcs drinking the blood and Gul'dan knowing it was wrong and should never have drank it.

 

[Hashbrowns]

here is what i dont get too, Gul'dan agreed to give the demon blood to all the other orcs only so he can gain power (he wanted even more power to rule), but when he said it was not their destiny i think hr meant as in them not drinking the blood and Mannoroth dying, so when Garrosh says "Time's Changed" i think he meant it as, "this will not be our past" and that he will fix the mistakes his father did after drinking the demonic blood that led to the acual lore events by killing off Mannoroth and leading the orcs into another path which is his Iron Horde

Yep I agree with all that. So here's what I got, let me know if I'm wrong.

Everyone in this cinematic is of the time period. the only one that's different is Garrosh, and he's tipped of this father about the events off the future. Gul'dan wants them to be demon. For his own personal gain, whatever that may be. But now Gromm knows if he does what will happen: The Burning Legion, enslavement, a weaker horde after, the possible death of his son, etc. So he won't do it, although it seems to fight with the decision in the beginning of the video. Which makes sense, it was his destiny or on his natural path to do things.

So yea time's altered, the pit lord dies in not the way he normally does. Gul'dan knows this isn't right and says "This is not your destiny" And then yea we get the fucking awesome line from Garrosh saying he's changing time.

Gromm went demon to help the Horde the first time around. He thought it was the most powerful path. But with this new information from his son from the future he now proclaims "We will not be slaves!" (to the Burning Legion). "But we will be conquers!" Meaning he will continue to grow the brown orcs into a stronger presence for the Horde.

 

[Rotten Brain]

was it the same pit lord in the warcraft 3 cinematic?

its the same pit lord, but bout 35years younger. not that it matter to the immortal demons

my rant:
... Really? he still get 1 shot by grom, again, in an alternate reality, melee attack, no magic buffs,
no wonder warlock are so weak.
or maybe it a hint warrior going to be op in this expension.
i though mannaroth blood was red, but maybe that just in WC3, in wow green = fel.

and what with the dialog? "and what must we give in return?" "Everything"
any sane orc would said "fuck no" to that offer. especially kargath who been a slave most his life.
at least like something sound like a small price to pay but it actually mean totally opposit, like
"only your aligence to the Horde"

[MENTION=18568]Hashbrowns[/MENTION] i think Mannaroth come out from stealth(magic form of stealth) like in WC3 cinematic, like how do you miss a 10 foot tall 2~3 tons green flaming lizard? in an open field.

but i really like the part where grom was standing infront of the explosion and his son saved him, with the same camera angle like wc3 but diffrent ending. that was a gold moment
the sad part is, in wc3, grom die a hero from the explosion. in wod, grom become the evil from surviving the explosion.

i think gul'dan "this was not our destiny" mean to be just mortal orcs, making the demons mad, and become their enemies.

and i agreed fully with the gorehowl return symbolic garrosh not taking the reigns. there not even any sign of hesitation, garrosh idolize his father after hearing his father heroic deed from thrall.

"But we will be conquerors" is a really powerfull line. means they want to take on the worlds.

i think i'm going to read "rise of the horde" if i got the chance.

additional:
i remember demons can't be kill by mortals ways, or at least the powerful ones, important member of the burning legion. like the dreadlords, how often they came back to life and troll us again.
when we kill it, we just kill its body, the demon is banish to the twisted nether, and wait for the rez timer or the green light from their superior to go back to our realm.
maybe skill of the demon hunter can truly kill the demons.

 

[Pooh]

Yep I agree with all that. So here's what I got, let me know if I'm wrong.

Everyone in this cinematic is of the time period. the only one that's different is Garrosh, and he's tipped of this father about the events off the future. Gul'dan wants them to be demon. For his own personal gain, whatever that may be. But now Gromm knows if he does what will happen: The Burning Legion, enslavement, a weaker horde after, the possible death of his son, etc. So he won't do it, although it seems to fight with the decision in the beginning of the video. Which makes sense, it was his destiny or on his natural path to do things.

So yea time's altered, the pit lord dies in not the way he normally does. Gul'dan knows this isn't right and says "This is not your destiny" And then yea we get the fucking awesome line from Garrosh saying he's changing time.

Gromm went demon to help the Horde the first time around. He thought it was the most powerful path. But with this new information from his son from the future he now proclaims "We will not be slaves!" (to the Burning Legion). "But we will be conquers!" Meaning he will continue to grow the brown orcs into a stronger presence for the Horde.

I think Groms quote "We will not be slaves " means they will not give in to the demon blood because after he asked Gul'dan what will they give up after drinking the blood and Gul'dan answers with "Everything", he must have found out that they will be put to enslavement, and was not told by Garrosh of the events that have occurred in the real timeline. And yea i believe that Gul'dan knew that something was wrong after Mannoroth was killed as if that was not supposed to happen, and same with Garrosh stating that he is changing the events in Draenor

in wow green = fel.

i think Lime Green is the color of evil, there are many characters in movies that are evil and often have a similar color of green like Mannoroth's blood

"and what must we give in return?" "Everything"
any sane orc would said "fuck no" to that offer. especially kargath who been a slave most his life.

most likely yea, i think the same

"But we will be conquerors" is a really powerfull line. means they want to take on the worlds.

it could be, i think it means its a new era for the Horde

Hint: Garrosh brings in technology from the present Azeroth that no orc has ever seen in that time period and the establishment of the factory shown in the cinematic showing that the new era has begun.

 

[Xenophon]

So is this a retcon? Or a case of....


"What we're dealing with here is a total lack of respect for the lore"
(or maybe "f*** them and their lore"
The Prodigy - their law - YouTube

or

"I fought the lore and the lore won"
The Clash I Fought The Law - YouTube

 

[Rollop]

Yep, why create new things when you can take old and change it abit. not like any gona have ballz go against arny of lawyers blizz got. There is you warlords lol..

Cool signature btw.



On other completely different note, if someone lore wise person can answer question.
Since they killed of Mannoroth, there is no logical way for all those tanning bed orcs come back in current universe all players are now in.

Since we already lived through burning crusade and all those things. Thus the orcs are in spin of. Live in their own universe and cant contact current one - logical. Why rush via portal to kill em? let they live in their own timeline conquer and kill all, and let the garosh be their leader, since he so much diehard.

None of those who in our timeline will be affected. and if we could, then alliance and everything els must go lol transparent like back in future movie as soon Mannoroth are dead.

Make expansion about fishing instead. will be first to pay for it. lol.

Garrosh has influenced the "Iron Horde" into invading "our" Azeroth, the plan isn't to just conquer Draenor, but all worlds in existence. Starting with "our" Azeroth. I want to point out that this is the reason the original Horde invaded in the first timeline. Also, they can't change the past so that it effects the future. It just creates a new universe.

Does all of this sound stupid and convoluted? That's because it is, and it's why time travel/dimension stories are almost always shitty.

There is something interesting though, the same people from different dimensions cannot occupy the same space. One will die, through a freak accident or other means, bringing "balance" to the dimension. This is blizzards way of making the story less complicated by not having duplicates of characters. Not that it helps, they've already jumped the shark, might as well ride it at this point.

 

[LennywBT]

Hoping they bring Illidan back!

It WILL happen , it is uncertain when , but i think the right time to do it is when we set feet in The Twisting Nether, since thats the place where demons rise and fight again, but also there is another theory that counters the one i told you, if Ilidan gets rescurected there he might have to face Kil'Jaeden himself. This one can me countered too, the lich king is dead, and maybe Kil"Jaeden has no more interest in ilidan. Chris metzen CONFIRMED that Ilidan WILL be back somehow.
** Also that might be the very first time we will be able to create and master our own Demon Hunters **

 

[Pooh]

It WILL happen , it is uncertain when , but i think the right time to do it is when we set feet in The Twisting Nether, since thats the place where demons rise and fight again, but also there is another theory that counters the one i told you, if Ilidan gets rescurected there he might have to face Kil'Jaeden himself. This one can me countered too, the lich king is dead, and maybe Kil"Jaeden has no more interest in ilidan. Chris metzen CONFIRMED that Ilidan WILL be back somehow.
** Also that might be the very first time we will be able to create and master our own Demon Hunters **

Theory has our that he's not really dead, some believe that he is imprisoned somewhere,

 

[Kearbear]

Anyone else remember this part in Warcraft III? Of course the plot was different, but the animation blew me away then, and the new one blows me away now
Someone already mentioned it but figured I'd link for nostalgia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luuUE0x7-TY

Dem 2002 animations

 

[LennywBT]

was it the same pit lord in the warcraft 3 cinematic?

Y E S ! In WoD we see Mannoroth standing near Gul'Dan , yet i DO NOT THINK he was the one who drew blood in that well, because when Grommash kills Mannoroth ,nothing happens to Gul'Dans eyes, theyre STILL red... Thats only a speculation, wich might be true or not , only time will tell.
As for Mannoroth in OUR timeline, he is dead, might be resscurected at The Twisting Nether...
"What happened to him is : he was sent on Azeroth during the Second invasion of the Burning legion. The Orcs were sent in Kalimdor with the call of Medihv the last Guardian, to find the Oracle, in the way they found Human Forces, (Jaina Proudmore's troups) Jaina was told to go to the lands of Kalimdor by the same prophet, to reach the Oracle . Thrall tells Grom to collect some woods and meet him after the event (oracle thing).
Grom went to Ashenvale to do waht he was told, the first phase was finished , he got as many lumber as he needed from the phase 1 and he started advancing, to phase 2, but this thing draw Cennarius' Attention. Cenarius was a Demigod, like a heart of the forest, he could raise immediatley new trees etc. In the proccees of fighting, they understood that Cenarius was invincible. They sent some scouts to watch around the territory. In the same zone there are Mannoroth and Tichondrius, sent by Kil'Jaeden to Defeat Cenarius. They find themselves near a fountain , and Mannoroth has a good idea , he puts his blood in the fountain , so that the orcs could finish the job defeating Cenarius. Obviously the Orc scouts found about the fountain, some wich doctors went there with Grom, the wich doctors warned Grom about NOT DRINKING IT sicne it was filled with demon powers, and that went against all rules that trall teached them, anyway Grom didnt listen to him and drinked the Demon Blood, he defeated Cenarius. When they was leaving they face mannoroth, and he tells Grom that the drinked blood was his and they will once again serve the legion. ---- Thrall /Cairne and jaina reached the Oracle , when they see each other they start arguing , but they see the prophet, Medihv , who tells them at the legion has come again and that the Alliance must unite their forces witht he Horde. Jaina didnt want but the circumstances made her chose , then the prophed told them that Grom was already in the demons influence... Thrall/Cairne/Jaina mannage to cleanse him, (Not Fully , ofc) , there remained one last thing to do , they needed to kill mannoroth in the cannon, they went there, Grom and Thrall, together, they foungth against him, Grom enrages and breaks Mannoroths weapon and hits his body, mannoroth Explodes , and the demmon fire ran out of Grom and his people's vains. -----

Quite sure that WOD will be heavy centered on Orcs vs Draenei and Humans so we will likely not see heroes of other races and Illidan is still in his eternal prison, since he was released by Tyrande during Burning Legion invasion.

Are you talking about Ilidan (our timeline), or Ilidan (WoD) ?
Ilidan is pretty mutch DEAD in our timeline, Akama and Maiev Shadowsong hunted him down in the Black Temple. As for Ilidan in WoD blizzard confirmed that there WILL NOT be connections with Azeroth(WoD Timeline) .

 

[LennywBT]

Theory has our that he's not really dead, some believe that he is imprisoned somewhere,

Not TRUE, because Chris metzen told us that he loves REDEMTION stories. With taht said, Ilidan IS dead.

 

[LennywBT]

Anyone else remember this part in Warcraft III? Of course the plot was different, but the animation blew me away then, and the new one blows me away now
Someone already mentioned it but figured I'd link for nostalgia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luuUE0x7-TY

Dem 2002 animations

I have been playing warcraft since i was like 7 years old, and i can never forget this, the game sill lies in my PC untouched !

 

[Rollop]

It WILL happen , it is uncertain when , but i think the right time to do it is when we set feet in The Twisting Nether, since thats the place where demons rise and fight again, but also there is another theory that counters the one i told you, if Ilidan gets rescurected there he might have to face Kil'Jaeden himself. This one can me countered too, the lich king is dead, and maybe Kil"Jaeden has no more interest in ilidan. Chris metzen CONFIRMED that Ilidan WILL be back somehow.
** Also that might be the very first time we will be able to create and master our own Demon Hunters **

He is back, sort of. Illidan - Heroes of the Storm Wiki

If you read their character stories you'll notice that they differ from regular warcraft lore, where these guys duke it out in a dimension inside the twisting nether. While this is cool, it also ties into the whole different dimensions/time travel theme of WoD.

You've brought up an interesting point that i'd never even thought of though. It is possible that Illidan can be considered a demon since he absorbed so much fel energy. Which means its possible he could be ressurected/summoned back from death like you said. That's awesome!

I don't believe the arthas lich king will make a return, since like you said he's dead. Well, arthas is dead anyway. The lich king is more of an entity at this point, held in check by Bolvar at the top of ICC currently.

 

[LennywBT]

He is back, sort of. Illidan - Heroes of the Storm Wiki

If you read their character stories you'll notice that they differ from regular warcraft lore, where these guys duke it out in a dimension inside the twisting nether. While this is cool, it also ties into the whole different dimensions/time travel theme of WoD.

You've brought up an interesting point that i'd never even thought of though. It is possible that Illidan can be considered a demon since he absorbed so much fel energy. Which means its possible he could be ressurected/summoned back from death like you said. That's awesome!

I don't believe the arthas lich king will make a return, since like you said he's dead. Well, arthas is dead anyway. The lich king is more of an entity at this point, held in check by Bolvar at the top of ICC currently.

Arthas? Ner'Zhul , he was the one controling arthas, since his soul WAS in the blade, the blade was destoryed, but someone took its essence and IT CAN BE RECONSTRUCTED. Nerzhul foresaw everything , it is explained in Warcraft III the frozen throne, since Ner'Zhul knew that lich king would die and he still WANTED to proceed. Anyway , yea , Bolvar Fordragon is regaining control of the Remaining Scourge, and he might use his troups as Allies of the Horde or Alliance... we do not know it yet , its just a speculation.

 

[LennywBT]

Crap I'm way off. Watch the video below. Thanks [MENTION=20517]Pooh[/MENTION] lol
I had a lot of fun thinking I figured all this out today but it's not right. Garrosh is the same Garrosh that was from Cata. He jumped in a portal to go back in time to stop his father from drinking demon blood. Gul'dan says this was not our destiny cause he knows this is not how it was supposed to go down. Garrosh says "times change" cause he's altering this decision. They are going to rise up the brown orcs and resist the demon blood that makes them green and starts their slavery into the Burning Legion. Sorry if everyone already knew this... lol

The Story of War Crimes [Lore] - YouTube

Yeah , had seen this be4 you bost it and EVERY story that that channel offers.
I have to counter something here, Orcs DID not become green because of Demon Blood.The demon blood only make their eyes RED. The green color came from practicing Dark Warlock spells/rituals. Gul Dan used to be a shaman , but the elements never helped him because Guldan was serving the legion and the elements knew that the Draeneis WERENT the"evil ones", and they stopped supporting him , sure , Kil"jaeden had to act, and he gave them demonic powers, then by using that power the body becomes green by the use of FEL MAGIC! ---- Something interesting is the fact that Thrall is green , what kind of connection could Durotan or Draka have with Fel magic ?!??!