[Level 20][Opinion] All Specs Mastery Rundown
- Thread starter Bop
- Start date
Chops
Soccer Dad
There are several possibilities
- Better players than you have come to a conclusion different from yours and so maybe its actually you thats wrong
- There are several successful ways to build a toon and the secondaries you prefer (and that work) are largely going to revolve around your playstyle, the type of play youre engaging in and the circumstances of that play (are you pve, arena, wargames, randoms, solo, grouped, have healers, dont, etc)
- Secondary stats actually dont really matter that much outside of a few select specs and worrying about it isnt really all that necessary outside of a handful of instances where an extra 1% somewhere might have made a difference.
- Some combination of the above.
Ivo
Dedicated Guide Author
Man I just don't know what to say anymore... I couldn't care less what they build but when a new player joins and sees that SP stat priority is crit = haste or that mage stacks mastery above all else it's not gonna be fun for him when he realizes that this isn't the right way. The same way I spent tons of gold on the wrong gear, following armories and opinions until finding out the most useful combination after many errors. But ok, if you insist on spreading misinformation and misleading new players on literally every thread so be it. I don't think it's worth wasting my time helping anyone anymore.
Chops
Soccer Dad
The best arena mage in the bracket plays in a full harmonious set. The best mage I've seen in random BGs builds a little more like you. The best wargames mages played with builds a bit differently but not wildly so.
What conclusion can we draw from this? That there is simply one way to build a toon that is "best" in every situation? I simply don't see it. You can do some math, run some sims and beat on a test dummy and figure out what produces the best DPS in a vacuum, sure. And thats valuable information to have. But it's not the whole picture.
Nobody here is misleading anyone or providing misinformation. Concern trolling about "what will new players think!? How ill they sift through all this conflicting info" rings pretty hollow when your suggestions in this very thread were heard, mulled over and led to adjustments in the rankings. It's not like the OP just rolled in, dropped a thread and said anyone who disagreed with him was wrong. New players can read through and see that and then make their own decisions.
Are other people going to have other opinions? Sure. Are they going to post them? Absolutely. Thats the nature of a forum. I dont really know what to tell you if that bothers you.
Hennelorix
So complicated was the fall
OP
OP
Bop
Remember the Treeline
All of this is theoretical. The goal of this thread is to have discussions arguing certain points and changes to the list based on the logic and mathematics from those arguments.
Please don't get upset if a particular point is not given priority status in these discussions. This is a community contribution - This is no place for protagonist syndrome.
No viewpoint is given special consideration. Viewpoints must be argued based on logical reasoning and mathematical evidence. If any individual is upset that their pet point isn't taken rly rly srsly, then maybe do more to argue that point in a clear and concise manner without ad hom attacks.
Thank you all for making this thread what it is <3
Please don't get upset if a particular point is not given priority status in these discussions. This is a community contribution - This is no place for protagonist syndrome.
No viewpoint is given special consideration. Viewpoints must be argued based on logical reasoning and mathematical evidence. If any individual is upset that their pet point isn't taken rly rly srsly, then maybe do more to argue that point in a clear and concise manner without ad hom attacks.
Thank you all for making this thread what it is <3
Kirise
OG
Bud, what's going on? You spent an untold amount of time and effort putting together one of the best twinking resources for 20s ever seen, arguably one of the best resources seen for any bracket in the history of twinking. Then in the last month or so, you're tearing through the forums with near-Selaya levels of contempt for the people to whom you gave such an amazing resource.
It's not like you haven't seen people locking horns over theorycrafting before, replete with their idiosyncrasies. Just a couple of days ago I was telling @youbeezy that after 12 years, I still get into arguments over effective health and why that calculation matters instead of just stacking stam or damage reduction. What changed in the last month or two that's got you like this?
Yayo
Legend
and when is this happening?
JadeFire
Worthless
Mastery and Enhance only has the main issue of it being tied directly into how you play. Stormstrike will always be your highest damage (unless you go out of your way to not use it)... the only thing you can do is mitigate the gap between it and your other abilities mainly that is by using Mastery. And that is just the difference between being all in on Stormstrike/being more of a hybrid.
Mastery is the worst stat for Stormstrike... it does not increase it's damage (net 0)... Ride the Lighting does not seem to be elemental damage or at least it does not benefit from Mastery as much as it does just from stacking Verse). Anything tied to Stormstrike does not benefit from Mastery.
You can build with Agility/Verse/Crit/Attack power enchants where your stromstrike does 600+ and Ride can do 600+ (total of course spread out). With Crits you can just annihilate somebody... but your other elemental abilities will do 100s less if you don't have high Mastery.
Almost all builds works on Enhance... I mean any... I've tried 60%+ crit, All Mastery/Verse, all Mastery, etc... all the same... the only one that does not work is all Haste (I mean like all Impatient gear - the loss in damage is not recoverable by the lowered cool downs).
Most of the other classes/specs it's more cut and dry.. X>Y>Z... Enhance being arguably the best true hybrid it's not that apparent (at least for open battlegrounds - non wargame)
So end of long pointless post... Mastery is just a choice you can make based on your playstyle. It can just be 5/5 if you play hybrid... it can also be 1/5 if you are dumb.
Mastery is the worst stat for Stormstrike... it does not increase it's damage (net 0)... Ride the Lighting does not seem to be elemental damage or at least it does not benefit from Mastery as much as it does just from stacking Verse). Anything tied to Stormstrike does not benefit from Mastery.
You can build with Agility/Verse/Crit/Attack power enchants where your stromstrike does 600+ and Ride can do 600+ (total of course spread out). With Crits you can just annihilate somebody... but your other elemental abilities will do 100s less if you don't have high Mastery.
Almost all builds works on Enhance... I mean any... I've tried 60%+ crit, All Mastery/Verse, all Mastery, etc... all the same... the only one that does not work is all Haste (I mean like all Impatient gear - the loss in damage is not recoverable by the lowered cool downs).
Most of the other classes/specs it's more cut and dry.. X>Y>Z... Enhance being arguably the best true hybrid it's not that apparent (at least for open battlegrounds - non wargame)
So end of long pointless post... Mastery is just a choice you can make based on your playstyle. It can just be 5/5 if you play hybrid... it can also be 1/5 if you are dumb.
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Ammonite
Veteran
Why even comment? Ivo maintains a database and puts effort into helping the community.
He doesn't just show up and start pissing everywhere like some people.
Kracks
Professional Button Pusher
So VILE
[doublepost=1651857175,1651856170][/doublepost]
did i lie? nobody askedWhy even comment? Ivo maintains a database and puts effort into helping the community.
He doesn't just show up and start pissing everywhere like some people.
JadeFire
Worthless
85% is too much - you are going to have too little Haste. You have to have Haste on Unholy to make up for the low damage... 30-35% Haste 65% mastery (or there about depending on what i28 gear you get). Haste also lets you spam crap like Reanimation more.
You can play Unholy with no haste, but you have to go all in... I mean perfect the ultimate number on max damage for 1 rotation of runes to try to kill somebody... and it's not easy because the damage is already bad at 20 and you are more relegated to leveler/non-gem-f2p clean up. It's not the same as Frost where you can get away with a big hit build.
Tusk/Injector on non stealth classes are hard to use, because you can't swap them in combat... it's just not worth giving up the Ghost Iron Dragonling and an i28 or even the Pvp Trinket.
Illmatix
Member
I see...ill try to go for 30-35% haste and 65% mastery as you say, i was just trtying to go full mastery since all my damage is shadow damage, and i just wanted to toy around with it and see if its worth or no hovaing that much mastery since its 100% of my dmg , thanks anyways for the respond, and one question , is [Thunderlord Longspear] good ? it has 13 mastery + it proced purple on my dk so its 26ilvl 7 str 10stam 4.9dmg per sec. or should i just use Crow Wing for those 3 extra sockets?
OP
OP
Bop
Remember the Treeline
Crow Wing for sockets. Strength is still a pretty important stat, it turns out.