[Level 20][Opinion] All Specs Mastery Rundown

[Bop]

A couple technical nitpicks. IDK why you rounded to 4 mastery rating but then compared it to precisely 1.02% crit etc. If you are going to be that precise, the numbers are 3.92 rating = 1 mastery point = 1% crit = 0.875% vers = 1.06% haste.

Also if we're talking about PvP, you should be using the lvl 29 scaling values instead of lvl 20. 5.19 rating = 1 mastery point. The scaling comparison ratios to haste and vers stays the same, and while 1 mastery point is still 1% crit, a crit is only +75% effectiveness in PvP, not +100%.

Addressing the how 2 most confusing masteries work:

The MW mastery coefficient is 4.2, not 1. Every point adds 4.2% spell power to gust. This is why you start with 33.6% mastery (8 points*4.2). The formula for gust healing is SP*(1+Vers)*(Mastery).

Outlaw rogue coefficient is 1.45, every point rating adds 1.45% mastery on the character sheet. The base is 11.6% (8 points*1.45). However, the damage formula is not completely straightforward, and there is a multiplication by 2, which is where your 2.9 comes from. The whole formula appears to be 2*(MH Ability damage)*(Mastery)*(1+Versatility)*1.13. So essentially your mastery adding to a multiplier on the damage that these procs do. It is underwhelming, but that's how it works.

Opinions on the few specs I have an opinion on:
Arms: Mastery is on paper the best secondary, but it is kinda clunky. It doesn't start working until after you've hit your target with MS or CS, and it doesn't give a boost to that first hit that applies it, so it only really comes into its own when you can sustain pressure against a single target, and is pretty worthless if you are constantly needing to switch targets. I'd call it 3/5, its kinda a wash between crit, vers, and mastery (and honestly haste scales well enough that it's probably fine too). Arms is probably the poster child for just using https://www.wowhead.com/item=108902/armored-elekk-tusk?ilvl=25

Fury: Pretty spot on, not worth going out of your way to get, probably not worth using https://www.wowhead.com/item=108902/armored-elekk-tusk?ilvl=25 either. But you don't have to avoid it per se.

Prot warr (and tanks in general): The 1% AP is much better than you make it out to be. With 200 primary stat (which is more easily attainable at 29 than 20) 2.6 mastery is basically 1 primary. This isn't amazing, but it is in the same ballpark as the other stats (math says 1 primary should be equal to 2.97 vers, 3.46 crit, and 2.45 haste), plus it has defensive benefit. I'd say 3/5 at least, maybe 4.

MW: Probably 5/5 honestly, it's really strong and adds a frontloaded heal to your HoTs making your ability to react to incoming burst better. Don't think it is as good as resto shaman mastery, but very good nonetheless. Unless you're trying to punch people instead of healing, then it's useless.

Frost DK: It might be 5/5, but it's the lamest feeling 5/5 ever.

I'm working on edits to the main post now, so this is good timing for your post!

On the technical points, there really wasn't a reason to choose to round on mastery and not on Crit - the gut feeling was that it's much easier for people to understand: "You get these stats for every 4 mastery" than 3.92.

With respect to PvP, I decided to keep scaling to 29 out of it. It is the better medium for comparing stats. But I figured there is largely parity between stats scaling down and *absolute* value for purposes of comparisons. I know relative value here is going to change a lot when you start considering what it means to lose a certain amount of Haste vs. Crit, etc. It just is much simpler to make stat comparisons when you can open your character template while in Durotar rather than checking it in a Battleground.

I'll take your points into consideration regarding tank masteries - but the way I viewed it, that's probably not how you'd want to build a tank if you were ever going to play one in a BG, right? I don't see how you can get away without play a lot of Vers. Particularly with respect to Prot Warrior, I also pointed out how terrible the AP scaling of their single target damaging abilities are.

Edit for the main reason for my reply that I forgot ---> How are you getting that primary stat to secondary stat ratio? For the life of me I can't think of a good way to do that, since wouldn't it vary based on like a billion variables?
[doublepost=1649146658,1649146381][/doublepost]

Mastery is good for shadow priest if you not trying to make build which aims to survive - if you dont give a fuck about damage reduction and heal increase.
If we check 100 vers vs 100 mastery in bg at 29 its 16.86% dmg increase from vers and 13.63 from one dot with default mastery or 9.63 without it.
This means you can get 16.86+12% damage (default mastery 4% x 3) while using 3 dots as versa shadow priest and 24.86 while using 2 dots or you can achieve 27.26% damage increase while using 2 dots as priest with 100 mast instead 100 vers. As we can see this means that mastery > versa in terms of damage even if we are not talking about using 3 dots. But if we do - it gives much higher damage potential to burst - use swp, vampiric touch, dp, and then cast of mind blast+instant vampiric and this dp+vamp+mb damage will be increased for 40.89% compared to 28.86 with 100 versa instead of mastery.
Priest is already strong in terms of surviving and mastery is a good option to boost dmg potential if you are not aiming to make very fat character.

This was the point I was trying to make regarding Shadow Priest mastery being a potential option. Thank you!

 

[Ivo]

 

[Hennelorix]

Wow, great answer

 

[Ivo]

Ok then if you don't believe me I'll show you some numbers.

All spell modifiers are multiplied by vers including mastery. This means the dmg is calculated as this vers * (mastery + other mods)
Here's the total modifier when having 2 dots up:

• 100 versatility(16.86%) + base mastery(4% * 2 = 8%): 1.1686 * 1.08 = 1.2621 or 26.21% increased damage.
• 100 mastery: 13.63 * 2 = 27.26%

This means 1.05% difference when having 2 dots up.

Now tell me, is the occasional 9.63% (13.63% - 4% as both builds have the 4% base mastery) extra damage, when having DP up, worth it? You lose 16.86% increased healing, 8.43% damage reduction and only gain 1.05% damage for the most part.

And before you say that this is good for a "glass cannon" build, such build doesn't exist. It's clearly underperfoming compared to versatility. You can't not care about dmg reduction and increased healing in PvP. Not to mention it also increases the healing from frag belt as well.

As I said before sp mastery is a stat that is balanced around having 3 dots up. It's most useful in single target PvE as the dmg reduction and increased healing isn't required and even with 2 dots it still provides ~1% extra damage. DP uptime is much much higher at 60 especially in PvE situations when your uptime on the target is close to 100%. You simply don't have enough tools to build insanity as fast at lvl 20 to justify the extra damage from 3 dots. Let alone disregard the dmg reduction and increased healing which is key to being effective as sp at 20.

 

[Hennelorix]

Idc about healing and damage reduction at all because i never have problems with surviving in even games. And when its full of hunters with pocket heals there is no difference if you have this reduction or not lul.
And yes, 10% damage increase to burst from your main combo dp+mindblast+insta vamp is a lot.
P.S: I dont even use healing belt - i use grenade. And if we are talking about partying with any healer like most of us do - mastery is outperforming versa in terms of nuking any target. You just multidot everything and then randomly burst someone via dp+mb+vamp for ~1500 damage noncrit.
When i read your post and see how you praise versa it looks like you getting hardfocused by 2-4 24/7 and thats the reason why versa is so good in your opinion.

 

[mirrorbender]

Edit for the main reason for my reply that I forgot ---> How are you getting that primary stat to secondary stat ratio? For the life of me I can't think of a good way to do that, since wouldn't it vary based on like a billion variables?

The weights compared to primary stat are making a few simple but reasonable assumptions for getting a simple and reasonable set of numbers. Basically, I'm assuming that 1% crit will increase your output by .75% (in pvp), 1% vers will increase your output by 1% (which it will), and 1% haste will increase also your output by 1%. These obviously gloss over a lot of details, but I think nonetheless are a decent point of reference. I also assumed 200 effective attack/spell power, but the relative weights of secondary stats compared to each other are of course independent of how much attack/spell power you have. It's when you are comparing to primary stat that 20 vs 29 really makes a difference.

I'll take your points into consideration regarding tank masteries - but the way I viewed it, that's probably not how you'd want to build a tank if you were ever going to play one in a BG, right? I don't see how you can get away without play a lot of Vers. Particularly with respect to Prot Warrior, I also pointed out how terrible the AP scaling of their single target damaging abilities are.

My point is basically than even ignoring the more interesting defensive side effects, the 1% attack power alone is enough to make mastery a relevant stat for tanks. Yes all of their abilities suck, but that doesn't affect mastery any more than any of the other stats.

 

[Bop]

The weights compared to primary stat are making a few simple but reasonable assumptions for getting a simple and reasonable set of numbers. Basically, I'm assuming that 1% crit will increase your output by .75% (in pvp), 1% vers will increase your output by 1% (which it will), and 1% haste will increase also your output by 1%. These obviously gloss over a lot of details, but I think nonetheless are a decent point of reference. I also assumed 200 effective attack/spell power, but the relative weights of secondary stats compared to each other are of course independent of how much attack/spell power you have. It's when you are comparing to primary stat that 20 vs 29 really makes a difference.



My point is basically than even ignoring the more interesting defensive side effects, the 1% attack power alone is enough to make mastery a relevant stat for tanks. Yes all of their abilities suck, but that doesn't affect mastery any more than any of the other stats.

But what is your baseline for primary stats? What is the weight of 1 primary stat as it relates to % damage increase? I completely accept your connection with secondary stats - they are almost definitionally correlated to a damage increase.

As an example, I know how to weigh 1 versatility for a shadow priest. How do you weigh 1 intellect? Its value varies based off of the spellpower ratios of the abilities you are using. Do you take a normal Spriest rotation and average out the spellpower coefficients per global cooldown?

 

[mirrorbender]

But what is your baseline for primary stats? What is the weight of 1 primary stat as it relates to % damage increase? I completely accept your connection with secondary stats - they are almost definitionally correlated to a damage increase.

As an example, I know how to weigh 1 versatility for a shadow priest. How do you weigh 1 intellect? Its value varies based off of the spellpower ratios of the abilities you are using. Do you take a normal Spriest rotation and average out the spellpower coefficients per global cooldown?

Nah it's not that complicated. Basically all abilities just scale linearly with your a base ability number, which is just spellpower for casters and attack power plus weapon damage contribution for melee. So at a value of 200, adding 1 point of primary stat adds .5% damage, and that is a very reasonable number to have and makes the math super easy.

 

[Kracks]

I really wanted to like mastery on my frost DK, but it just doesn't feel like it's 5/5. You're too rune/runic power starved at 20. In practice I feel like I get more mileage out of crit for the extra pressure that it generates. Feels more effective if I target ~30-35% crit versus hard stacking mastery.

Nice list!

Crit is by far the most useless stat for any dk spec at 20 lol

 

[Vasquez]

For ARCANE vers/haste seem better for option for me, but maybe i am wrong. Any high experienced ppl can say something about that spec?

 

[Kracks]

For ARCANE vers/haste seem better for option for me, but maybe i am wrong. Any high experienced ppl can say something about that spec?

I think mastery is bis for the mana pool/regen but I hardly play arcane

 

[Ammonite]

Crit is by far the most useless stat for any dk spec at 20 lol

It's not though. Plus I'm not saying to stack crit, just that I like to hit a threshold before going for other secondaries

 

[JadeFire]

I'd vote for 4/5 on enhance. Its just straight increase on every ability outside of stormstrike (and only if you don't use ride the lighting). In order to get that high using verse you have to destroy your crit and haste... its not the same pay off per point at all.

If you just pick up the BC crit/haste gear and gem for haste/crit... you have around 40% Crit and 25% haste... no reason to not just add on 60% elemental damage (and give up 3-4 gem slots that do not equal the loss in Mastery).

 

[Kracks]

It's not though. Plus I'm not saying to stack crit, just that I like to hit a threshold before going for other secondaries

What hard hitting abilities does dk have that makes crit worth? Haste and mastery are far better options

 

[JadeFire]

What hard hitting abilities does dk have that makes crit worth? Haste and mastery are far better options

Frost:
40%+ crit with just max strength is way more damage than stacking Mastery and adding a tad onto FF total damage. Over time that much crit is just straight gas on 6-8 targets with FF. I don't buy into the "melee Frost DK"... if you don't have dedicated heals in a lopsided game, DK is pretty worthless... I don't really think you can name one player that is rocking it in melee without a carry.

Outside of just trying to do 150k in FF damage and just wearing people down, and getting in some lucky grips... not sure what you are doing with Frost.

Unholy:
Unholy is whatever, I mean Haste there I guess, again... having dedicated heals is more important than anything you are stacking here.


*** Now if there are two lists here one for wargames and one for pugs... I'll 100% agree that haste is better on Frost for wargames because all you are doing there is trying to slow people as much as possible and set up a lockout kill with Dead of Winter/Mind Freeze.

However all of these examples IMO is just leaving mastery out in the cold... as verse/strength is just a better option.

 

[Ammonite]

What hard hitting abilities does dk have that makes crit worth? Haste and mastery are far better options

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=281208/cold-heart because of its high damage in PvP

When I play I'll sit back, DoT, pool RP, grip a priority target, and burst. Obliterate + FS crits are good on demand damage.

I'd lean harder into haste if I had more chances to take advantage of it, but I usually can't in solo queue.

 

[toskosa]

frost dks are a ranged spec, dont @ me.

 

[Kracks]

Frost:
40%+ crit with just max strength is way more damage than stacking Mastery and adding a tad onto FF total damage. Over time that much crit is just straight gas on 6-8 targets with FF. I don't buy into the "melee Frost DK"... if you don't have dedicated heals in a lopsided game, DK is pretty worthless... I don't really think you can name one player that is rocking it in melee without a carry.

Outside of just trying to do 150k in FF damage and just wearing people down, and getting in some lucky grips... not sure what you are doing with Frost.

Unholy:
Unholy is whatever, I mean Haste there I guess, again... having dedicated heals is more important than anything you are stacking here.


*** Now if there are two lists here one for wargames and one for pugs... I'll 100% agree that haste is better on Frost for wargames because all you are doing there is trying to slow people as much as possible and set up a lockout kill with Dead of Winter/Mind Freeze.

However all of these examples IMO is just leaving mastery out in the cold... as verse/strength is just a better option.

You’re just wrong and also not good at the game I’ve seen your dk in action multiple times. No offense.

 

[orcgazmatron]

One of the best Twinking guides on the whole website. Thank you so much for this!

 

[Bop]

One of the best Twinking guides on the whole website. Thank you so much for this!

Happy to help! Still working on an update - taking my sweet time here because this post has generated a lot of discussion. A lot of it is ... not particularly helpful. But I'm purposely keeping my opinion open to change based on logic, good reasoning, and a bit of math.