US It's about time. . .

[MYT]

I mean, I didnt compete but I certainly watched high level twink premades as far back as BC and I can distinctly remember there being formal rules and even gentlemens agreements regarding premades. Stuff like restricting stealthie classes, consumables and bomb restrictions, and even full out spec bans when some specs (shield slam warriors, aimed shot hunters, etc) were breaking brackets.

Rules and restrictions on twink premades arent new and they certainly dont lower the level of competition.

But I think I generally agree with you that if there werent class restrictions AND we had an active premade scene, the meta and team comps would shift enough to be interesting. But since we dont really have an active premade scene (yet) then perhaps starting a little conservative might be the safe bet.

I can assure you that quite literally there was a time where everything went but exploiting, and people didn’t even really complain or if they did they were laughed at for making excuses. Slumber sand (30 second sleep in an era of 5 minute cd on trinket if I remember correctly), loh style crystal focus, etc. Premades lasted hours sometimes and you did what you had to do to win, period.

I am aware that after my team effectively retired that a team that wasn’t near the top before started playing others and getting them to agree to rules. That team was led by a guy named Pizza, who among other skills managed to manipulate the then twink world into agreeing to his rules which then contributed to him creating a dynasty.

I can tell you though that when my team had its dynasty, there were no rules.

 

[Iild]

a good fury should do fine, knowing he's not supposed to be having 100% uptime and will only be charging in to finish/secure kills and leaping back out within seconds, he's really only going to be used to engage efcs on high stacks and clean up kills in mid, with a possibility of scaring healers out of position with his melee interrupt

obviously dumbass warriors will rack up 10+ deaths and people will say it isn't viable but the potential is definitely there

 

[Geekz]

Best comp without touching or looking up about your bracket -

Double disc
Double rsham
Double boomie / 1 resto 1 boomie
Double hunter
1 Mage
1 rogue/warr

any1 got a better list

run rogue into double boomie
run resto druid into rogue


edit: thinking of dumbass comps if MYT gets his no rules games

no rules comp:

triple disc
double rsham
5 boomkins

any1 got a counter? spoiler alert ofc there's no counter, there's also no fun

Double disc double MW is more than enough healing. 6 boomies and gg. Sounds fun right?

All jokes aside my ideal comp is
2x disc
2x MW
2x arcane
2x marks
1x boomkin
1x resto FC

 

[Chops]

I can assure you that quite literally there was a time where everything went but exploiting, and people didn’t even really complain or if they did they were laughed at for making excuses. Slumber sand (30 second sleep in an era of 5 minute cd on trinket if I remember correctly), loh style crystal focus, etc. Premades lasted hours sometimes and you did what you had to do to win, period.

I am aware that after my team effectively retired that a team that wasn’t near the top before started playing others and getting them to agree to rules. That team was led by a guy named Pizza, who among other skills managed to manipulate the then twink world into agreeing to his rules which then contributed to him creating a dynasty.

I can tell you though that when my team had its dynasty, there were no rules.

You got me.

The way you structured 19s in vanilla is definitely applicable to 39s in BFA

 

[Iild]

id pick rsham over mw for the ranged interrupt, ranged damage to secure kills and other general use like totems etc not sure what they get at 39 but in general fights what they lack in healing over monk they make up for in utility, with decent healers the mid pressure you receive shouldn't be too bursty to need 4 hps heavy healers with 100% output, so i don't think double disc double mw will be mandatory so swapping out one or even both mw for rsham seems like the best option, on paper obviously

 

[MYT]

Hey man , you’re the one that countered that there were always rules. I was just correcting that misperception.

If your point is instead that we have rules now therefore must continue because we’re pizza’s sheep then it’s you that got me!

 

[Chops]

Hey man , you’re the one that countered that there were always rules. I was just correcting that misperception.

If your point is instead that we have rules now therefore must continue because we’re pizza’s sheep then it’s you that got me!

To get really pedantic, I countered that there were rules back to what I could remember in BC. Im glad you had a decent run in twink BGs 12 years ago though. Congrats on that.

My point was that rules are not only nothing new, but that theyre generally accepted as par for course.

id pick rsham over mw for the ranged interrupt, ranged damage to secure kills and other general use like totems etc not sure what they get at 39 but in general fights what they lack in healing over monk they make up for in utility, with decent healers the mid pressure you receive shouldn't be too bursty to need 4 hps heavy healers with 100% output, so i don't think double disc double mw will be mandatory so swapping out one or even both mw for rsham seems like the best option, on paper obviously

I dont know why people are down on RSham in this bracket. They do remarkably well for all the reasons you mentioned (just ask rise) and I've only seen one MW that didnt fold like a cheap table when the pressure was applied.

 

[Iild]

take off your rose tints, vanilla/tbc premades were awful messes that look like pugs with no strategy, just 20 headless chickens who didn't know how to play the game running around

 

[Geekz]

id pick rsham over mw for the ranged interrupt, ranged damage to secure kills and other general use like totems etc not sure what they get at 39 but in general fights what they lack in healing over monk they make up for in utility, with decent healers the mid pressure you receive shouldn't be too bursty to need 4 hps heavy healers with 100% output, so i don't think double disc double mw will be mandatory so swapping out one or even both mw for rsham seems like the best option, on paper obviously

You absolutely can and both have their strengths for sure, but MW is much more slippery and has crazy burst damage and burst healing.

 

[MYT]

Hey Chops, if you want to get ignorant then let me suggest you bring that fury of yours outside Orgrimmar sometime this weekend so I can shit on you. After all, I’m just a guy who had a good run 12 years ago so sure it won’t be much of a challenge fo you!
[doublepost=1544210638,1544210573][/doublepost]

take off your rose tints, vanilla/tbc premades were awful messes that look like pugs with no strategy, just 20 headless chickens who didn't know how to play the game running around

Guess you watched the wrong videos then!

Video quality was shit though.

 

[Chops]

Hey Chops, if you want to get ignorant then let me suggest you bring that fury of yours outside Orgrimmar sometime this weekend so I can shit on you. After all, I’m just a guy who had a good run 12 years ago so sure it won’t be much of a challenge fo you!

lol owned

 

[Iild]

Guess you watched the wrong videos then!

Video quality was shit though.

 

[Geekz]

I dont know why people are down on RSham in this bracket. They do remarkably well for all the reasons you mentioned (just ask rise) and I've only seen one MW that didnt fold like a cheap table when the pressure was applied.

Oh dude I love my shaman and yeah I pump heals in pugs, but against a team that was relatively coordinated in war games I didn’t feel like I had enough burst healing to keep up with the damage. Granted I run 3.8k hp so I could probably go down 500-600 health and up 20-25 int or so for better throughput.

Good mistweavers feel so hard to kill with their double roll and ability to just turn and kick you in the face if you pursue too far.

 

[MYT]

To be clear about a few things re: that video:

First, no organized match I played in ever featured that kind of fight. People would come into games with every buff know to man and we’d frequently go mod to strip their buffs off, but mid fights were not the meta. They’d simply cap around you.

Second that doesn’t look like people who don’t know what they’re doing to anyone that understands that game. Things worked differently. Priests primary spells were dispel (worked offensively and defensively), renew and sometimes rank 1 swp depending on spec. They had to manage oom so they moved a lot although not as often perhaps as that guy. Other classes likewise had a role to play. Just because it doesn’t fit your perception of current mid fight wow that doesn’t mean it wasn’t skilled.

Edit: in fact you can see that he’s constantly on the verge of oom, as were hunters and basically all mana based classes.

Different game. Hunters and rogues were really OP yet there were plenty of other classes in games.

 

[Chops]

Oh dude I love my shaman and yeah I pump heals in pugs, but against a team that was relatively coordinated in war games I didn’t feel like I had enough burst healing to keep up with the damage. Granted I run 3.8k hp so I could probably go down 500-600 health and up 20-25 int or so for better throughput.

Good mistweavers feel so hard to kill with their double roll and ability to just turn and kick you in the face if you pursue too far.

I cant get past the ranged kick and ranged AoE slow that Rsham bring. Earthbind feels like an essential add to any premade comp.

Sure, MW dumps some heals but they also just... dump heals. Thats its.

 

[Iild]

i fully understand how vanilla/tbc classes worked or should be played, the thing that's wrong with the twink premading meta back then is the actual lack of mid fights, mid fights exist in twinking 19s is exactly due to the inability to cross mid effectively, the reason RBG at endgame has no mid is due to 100% mounts and DH FCs crossing in 0.001 secs, so they play O and D

if people at 19 in vanilla had a brain and knew about the game (my original point) they wouldn't have played O and D like they're used to in pugs (my second point) they would've played a mid meta due to lack of mobility especially as FCs didn't have travel form or even dash, they didn't even have cat form so couldn't stealth pick, given all these circumstances it should've 100% been a mid fight meta, there'd be no other way to pick without it, no way to cross effectively if you're playing o and d into mid fight comp etc

tl;dr vanilla and tbc premades were played wrong and wouldve benefited more from a set rule list and pushed into mid comps.

 

[Enno]

Yup, I vividly remember when Ghost Wolf was one of the premier movement abilities added the the bracket - and that wasn't until WotLK? Shit the only mount I remember my BC premades having was the Riding Turtle. Sprint and Swiftness Pots was all we had!

 

[MYT]

People tried midfight strats and lost. Obviously it wasnt the best given that. Pugs also almost always were big mid fights and almost never O/D.

RBGs don’t have a mid fight meta because they don’t have class rules. Other stuff too but end games lacks pizza’s equivalent changing rules so everyone has to play it their way so they can win.

 

[Iild]

midfight not winning just emphasises my point of the players being bad and not knowing what to do

RBG comps always gravitate towards what's meta at the time and become similar due to it, there's rarely any variety and every comp needs to run certain classes due to the inability of knowing which map you're getting, e.g needing to run a dh due to flag maps etc

 

[MYT]

I have no doubt the sheep teams follow a meta. Somebody created it though and they did so by actually winning instead of creating rules to “win”.

Just realized I’m talking to a guy that literally encouraged people to ban mounts in 39 bg’s so you’ll never get what it means to just win.

I took the week of Christmas off. If I decide to spend the time creating a pleb “Win or wipe your puss and stfu” night you should come and learn.