If its too premature to discuss specs - can we discuss gem/stat priorities?

[toskosa]

I am going for a close to 50/50 split on steady talasites and pure intellect gems on my mage.
Arcane doesnt really need haste it brings its own via arcane charges which you can get quickly via arcane explosion.
My vers is around 12% in bgs and mastery is around 18-20% and crit sits around 11% as well.
The only downside is 1.6 second sheeps.

 

[Chops]

does arms still prefer crit to haste, and does fury still prefer haste to crit? Secondly, even if either spec prefers one secondary to the other, does it really matter when 2 stam 2 str or talasite exists?

So this is my personal take on it...

Arms is crit and fury is haste, yes. Probably even more so now than in BFA. Arms has a very narrow burst window with Colossus Smash and the more crits, the merrier in there. Fury only benefits from mastery when enraged, so pulling the bloodthirst CD down as much as possible keeps their dmg up.

That said, no it doesnt really matter. Warrior damage mostly comes from crusader procs and whether I've got 10% or 15% haste or dithering over 2% crit vs 2% mastery is inconsequential compared to whether Im at 0, 1, 2 or more crusaders. If I have double crusader and colossus smash up, you're in trouble regardless of whether Im haste or crit built. I ran a crit fury build in BFA just fine and I cant imagine its changed too terribly much.

From there, I am of the opinion that warriors should stack as much Talasite as reasonable (ie, dont give up a great piece of gear with one socket for a trash piece of gear because it has 2 sockets) for both the "2 crusaders, I win" factor as well as the cascading effect it can have on your healers mana. More health = more flexibility in their GCDs.

Now assuming talasites get the nerf, you have more interesting choices. Id assume they get nerfed to 3 stam (a safe bet, I think) and so now we get to ask, do I want 3 stam or 2/2? both of which have legit arguments.

 

[Malgibbon]

I am going for a close to 50/50 split on steady talasites and pure intellect gems on my mage.
Arcane doesnt really need haste it brings its own via arcane charges which you can get quickly via arcane explosion.
My vers is around 12% in bgs and mastery is around 18-20% and crit sits around 11% as well.
The only downside is 1.6 second sheeps.

Thanks. This is what i was thinking as well but I wasn't sure if i should be considering main stat/secondaries at all or whether to pick up the JC cut. I've seen a few people gem this (2 str 2 crit to be exact) but it didn't seem often or better than a talasite heavy build.

I think gemming talasite heavily on a MM hunter would be problematic since you'll probably end up doing too little damage. On a survival hunter it seems a bit different since your mastery gives you a passive health regeneration every 5 seconds. The more tankier you are the more regen. I don't have all my socketed mastery pieces on yet so i can't see how high the hp regen goes but at 30% its 1.8% HP every 5 seconds.

 

[Chops]

I've seen a few people gem this (2 str 2 crit to be exact) but it didn't seem often or better than a talasite heavy build.

yea dont do that on a str class. Most of the solid gear choices for str classes have crit on them anyway. You dont need more, especially with the new DR mechanic.

 

[toskosa]

Thanks. This is what i was thinking as well but I wasn't sure if i should be considering main stat/secondaries at all or whether to pick up the JC cut. I've seen a few people gem this (2 str 2 crit to be exact) but it didn't seem often or better than a talasite heavy build.

I think gemming talasite heavily on a MM hunter would be problematic since you'll probably end up doing too little damage. On a survival hunter it seems a bit different since your mastery gives you a passive health regeneration every 5 seconds. The more tankier you are the more regen. I don't have all my socketed mastery pieces on yet so i can't see how high the hp regen goes but at 30% its 1.8% HP every 5 seconds.

yeah surv with a crap ton of stam would be interesting to see, arcane spec is in a unique position though where it doesnt really need secondaries to do well unlike fire which needs crit/haste and frost which from my testing probably needs master/haste to feel good to play. So as arcane you can kinda just stack intellect and be fine but with the abundance of hunters running around I opted for 1 50/50 split just for survivability.

With more stam/armor + alter time arcane is surprisingly beefy + prismatic barrier in bgs gives me around 600-700 absorb and the pvp talent netherwind armor reducing crit chance aginst me by 15%.

 

[Germinus]

It is not as good as 2h, I thought the extra secondaries and double enchants would be a benefit but they are overall weaker in melee than using a 2h. EF is far superior to +3 agility and mana oils are not as effective as weapon damage for melee. I had to try it

My exp as feral = dual elemental force is better. 20 at least. It does trigger from both weapons and eaven from moonfire cat. Bleeds cam trigger too.

 

[Malgibbon]

So this is my personal take on it...

Arms is crit and fury is haste, yes. Probably even more so now than in BFA. Arms has a very narrow burst window with Colossus Smash and the more crits, the merrier in there. Fury only benefits from mastery when enraged, so pulling the bloodthirst CD down as much as possible keeps their dmg up.

That said, no it doesnt really matter. Warrior damage mostly comes from crusader procs and whether I've got 10% or 15% haste or dithering over 2% crit vs 2% mastery is inconsequential compared to whether Im at 0, 1, 2 or more crusaders. If I have double crusader and colossus smash up, you're in trouble regardless of whether Im haste or crit built. I ran a crit fury build in BFA just fine and I cant imagine its changed too terribly much.

From there, I am of the opinion that warriors should stack as much Talasite as reasonable (ie, dont give up a great piece of gear with one socket for a trash piece of gear because it has 2 sockets) for both the "2 crusaders, I win" factor as well as the cascading effect it can have on your healers mana. More health = more flexibility in their GCDs.

Now assuming talasites get the nerf, you have more interesting choices. Id assume they get nerfed to 3 stam (a safe bet, I think) and so now we get to ask, do I want 3 stam or 2/2? both of which have legit arguments.

Hey, had to ask: are you and other warriors running harmonious gear? or some other stat prioritization? I haven't had time to pay attention to my warrior yet but will in the near future

 

[Chops]

Hey, had to ask: are you and other warriors running harmonious gear? or some other stat prioritization? I haven't had time to pay attention to my warrior yet but will in the near future

I think my vet has a piece or two? Its a mix, I was going for a pretty even split between vers/mast/crit which gives me a pretty even place to start and then as I get more familiar with the bracket, I can adjust from there. Harmonious seems pretty valuable off the bat though, given the amount of crit present on 3 slot TBC pieces.

but honestly, crusader go brrrrrrrr. The rest is details.

 

[Kirise]

- Mid Healer? Vers/Haste (Aurora)
- Pocket Healer? Vers/Mastery (Harmonious

That's interesting -- I would have reversed those, figuring that pumping out single target heals would prioritize haste, while topping off various targets would prefer mastery. But I don't have any field experience in ShadowLands yet.

 

[Counsel]

Currently I'm prioritizing steady talasites, versatility, mastery and movement speed on my plate classes. Along with having a high effective health pool and being able to close the distance, the armor bonus is reducing melee damage by nearly 40%.

I think being able to close distance gaps quickly and remaining combat effective by maintaining a high effective health pool is a reasonable strategy. Sub runs out next week so I can finally get some games in.

 

[Malgibbon]

are you guys including talasites in whatever 3 OS weapon you get? and meta socket helm or no?

 

[Chops]

are you guys including talasites in whatever 3 OS weapon you get? and meta socket helm or no?

not using 3 socket weapons because I actually like doing damage and I use the +12 crit/5% stun resist meta because resisting a hoj is worth all the stam in the world

 

[Counsel]

are you guys including talasites in whatever 3 OS weapon you get? and meta socket helm or no?

I think my primary setup on the warrior is going to be running baron rivendare and ilvl 34 arms artifact weapon. I do also carry a set of the sethekk halls crow wing reapers with 3x talasites each but i'm not sure how often we'll see that come into play. Regarding meta helm, it won't hurt to have both but I'm leaning towards what @Chops mentioned.

 

[Malgibbon]

Sorry i forgot apart of my question related to meta helms - Do you think 12 crit/5 stun resist is going to get nerfed? if so will you continue to use a meta helm and what will you use? I suspect it will get nerfed so im trying to plan ahead. Anyone know how much haste the + chance to haste on gives?

Also for 3 socket weapons - do they do less damage than 34 artifact weapon if you 3X main stat gem them?

I was also thinking rivendare's weapon for the speed buff

 

[Bethdachef]

How would that translate to the Guardian artifact weapon? Would you go for a 2hander instead of it?

They have the same stats as the feral artifact so it's down to what relics you can get. I personally prefer the blades but I am unaware of any advantage other than relic type and easiness finding them.

My exp as feral = dual elemental force is better. 20 at least. It does trigger from both weapons and eaven from moonfire cat. Bleeds cam trigger too.

I found the extra damage from a 2h with +3 wep dmg and bs stone +3 wep dmg matched dual EF on my damage recorder. EF was producing anywhere from 5% to 10% of my overall damage in different combat. My melee damage increased by roughly the same when I switched to the 2h. I think the proc rate may just edge dual EF over 2h in certain situations, but I didn't find it reliable enough to regularly outscore the 2h. Those weapon damage enchants this expansion are OP, I was very surprised at the difference in damage output

 

[toskosa]

Sorry i forgot apart of my question related to meta helms - Do you think 12 crit/5 stun resist is going to get nerfed? if so will you continue to use a meta helm and what will you use? I suspect it will get nerfed so im trying to plan ahead. Anyone know how much haste the + chance to haste on gives?

Also for 3 socket weapons - do they do less damage than 34 artifact weapon if you 3X main stat gem them?

I was also thinking rivendare's weapon for the speed buff

Most likely +2 weapon stone buffs gloom blade ( 47%ap ratio) from 115 to 126 so about 11 damage is around 22 ap for 2 weapon damage. obviously not exact but I am too lazy for that.

 

[Chops]

Do you think 12 crit/5 stun resist is going to get nerfed? if so will you continue to use a meta helm and what will you use? I suspect it will get nerfed so im trying to plan ahead. Anyone know how much haste the + chance to haste on gives?

At some point, maybe? I have some backups, namely the 4stam/10% stun duration reduction meta, which I also wont mind using. I stocked a whole lot of others on my vet, like the + weapon dmg/chance to stun, etc

But in general, I think the benefits of some of these meta gems outweigh the 12 or 18 stam youd get from using a triple socket helm, especially on a warrior thats already stacked talasite. one or two gems wont break the build.

Also for 3 socket weapons - do they do less damage than 34 artifact weapon if you 3X main stat gem them?

No idea, but I would assume not. If you're fury, your offhand is just a stat stick in instanced pvp though, so you can run a triple socket weapon there and I think it might be better? I dont have an ilvl 34 arti so i cant check.

I was also thinking rivendare's weapon for the speed buff

also a solid fury offhand choice. Though I havent (yet) found it difficult to stick on a target or get from fight to fight unless I go full mongo and open with charge. Which I do often.

You might also consider a malownes slam for the stun. The strength proc didnt work, last I checked, but that was several hotfixes, nerfs and an xpac release ago.

 

[Gloom]

The icy-veins resource recommends the following stats for hunters in pvp:
BM
1 Mastery 2 Versatility 3 Haste 4 Critical Strike
MM
1 Versatility 2 Mastery 3 Haste 4 Critical Strike
How true is this for 20lvl?
What min/max values and their ratios are optimal?
Thanks.

 

[Jonjonho]

The icy-veins resource recommends the following stats for hunters in pvp:
BM
1 Mastery 2 Versatility 3 Haste 4 Critical Strike
MM
1 Versatility 2 Mastery 3 Haste 4 Critical Strike
How true is this for 20lvl?
What min/max values and their ratios are optimal?
Thanks.

Hmm as a marksman hunter my preference is like this:
Mastery > Crit> I don't care about the rest

 

[Carbonated]

I think it’s less about SPEC and more about what ROLE you want to play in BGs...

Are you going for...
- Mid Brawler? Vers/Haste (Aurora)
- Sustained Priority Target Damage? Vers/Mastery (Harmonious)
- Infrequent Burst Damage (I.e. you roam at the outskirts of fights waiting for a big burst window before retreating again)? Vers/Crit (Quickblade)
- Frequent Burst Damage (I.e. you have burst, but spend more uptime in fights as opposed to “tagging and retreating”)? Vers/Mastery (Harmonious)
- Mid Healer? Vers/Haste (Aurora)
- Pocket Healer? Vers/Mastery (Harmonious)
- FC? Vers (Adaptable)

For Gems, I’m a believer in the +3 Primary ones, as opposed to +2/+2’s...it’s my opinion that primary stats scale better and are more valuable in BGs, but I know there are others who put more of an emphasis on stacking secondaries to certain thresholds.

Open to alternative views if anyone disagrees.

This obviously isn't all the different modalities of play but it's a really fantastic example of how BiS is just a loose term.

Great post Henry
@Slap