How to balance 19's (final)

[Tinkerton]

Sorry i paraphrased your quote, it was quite large



Your comment about righteous fury is very interesting, and i like it. I'm not sure how keen blizzard will be, but i will definately consider suggesting it instead.



I agree partly with your sentiment about AS, but remember that this change is only for low levels and will scale back to normal by level 40ish. I would love to have AS as an exciting move at 19, but prots are simply too powerful in pvp



I have suggested that FoL be nerfed, but im not really sure what more can be done to lower prot survivability or if i agree that it needs to go any further down. WoG needs to be kept in order to give prot and holy a move to use with HP and inquisition cannot be implemented in its place because it would increase prot's damage by too much and wog is pretty crucial to a balanced holy paladin. This should definately be explored further though

Thanks for the reply.



Small but crucial: talking about Righteous Defense Righteous Defense - Spell - World of Warcraft , not Righteous Fury



And I agree that Protadin damage should be looked at first, not their survivability (Tank spec after all).

 

[Jva]

Great Thread, but i doubt that you will be able to balance all brackets



The best thing i saw is that the overall dmg should be reduced by 30%, that would help alot.

Remove Scatter and Concussive and it would be much more balanced at 19 and 29

 

[Kore nametooshort]

21. Increase the health of all hunter pets by 20% below level 40

- This will impact 39s, from where I have most experience. This will imbalance Hunters in this bracket even more, which is insane as they are as good at 39 as at 19.

27. Hand of Freedom is now learned at level 8

- This will also impact 39s, where Ret Paladins burst is so great a clothie can take 2-3 swings from a Retadin and die. The gain in mobility is nice, but will imbalance the game at a later point.



Additionally, I'm not sure where all the re-scaling should balance out to the values of today, but anything after level 24 will affect another bracket, and 29 will affect two. Do you see what I'm pointing at? What's good for 19 might be hurtful for others.



That being said, you seem so eager to not touch end-game experience that changing another bracket might be something worth looking out for.

Indeed, this is a very important point. Many other brackets between 19 and 59 share problems with the 19 bracket such as the ret damage:mobility ratio and hunters being too OP. Letting some of the 19 changes could improve other brackets, but as you say they might also have the opposite effect. I will add clauses to each ability rebalance to state when they need tobe rescaled by and we'll see if that combats this problem.

Thanks for the reply.



Small but crucial: talking about Righteous Defense Righteous Defense - Spell - World of Warcraft , not Righteous Fury



And I agree that Protadin damage should be looked at first, not their survivability (Tank spec after all).

Oops, sorry i meant righteous defense too, i just wrote fury by accident.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Indeed, this is a very important point. Many other brackets between 19 and 59 share problems with the 19 bracket such as the ret damage:mobility ratio and hunters being too OP. Letting some of the 19 changes could improve other brackets, but as you say they might also have the opposite effect. I will add clauses to each ability rebalance to state when they need tobe rescaled by and we'll see if that combats this problem.

Unless stated otherwise all abilities scale back by 60. Spells that do not scale back by 60 are:

- Regrowth

- Hunter pet health

- Avenger's Shield

- Flash of Light

- Healing Surge

- Bloodthirst

- Warlock pet health (this is new)

 

[Arkant]

Frost mages'/warlocks' pets have the same problems as hunter pets. You should suggest to increase their health pool aswell.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Frost mages'/warlocks' pets have the same problems as hunter pets. You should suggest to increase their health pool aswell.

I'd just suggested that warlock pet healthpools increase but i'd forgotten about mages. Thanks.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Ouch i actually just hit the character limit for a TI post. I'll just leave links here



Links

Twinkinfo feedback

This threads counterpart on the official forums - Extensive low level pvp feedback - Forums - World of Warcraft

Recount data for every class - http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17603-help-balance-19s-wtb-recount-data.html

Feedback on the general changes - http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17876-how-balance-19-misc.html?highlight=balance+misc

Feedback on dps spec changes - http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17869-how-balance-19-dps.html?highlight=balance

Feedback on healing spec changes - http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-...ance-19-healers.html?highlight=balance+healer

Twinkinfo discussion board for the balancing of low levels - http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/groups/balancing-low-levels.html



Feedback from other forums

Plea for healing surge - Healing Surge for sham pre-lvl 20 - Forums - World of Warcraft

Resistance feedback - Suggestion on resistances - Forums - World of Warcraft

Warrior feedback - Warrior PvP at low lvl...

Resto druid change(blue posted here) - Do you understand low levels? - Forums - World of Warcraft

Other feedback:

Balance Low Level PvP Now!!! - Forums - World of Warcraft

Low level BGs: Forgotten? - Forums - World of Warcraft

Locked experience, infinitely long BG queue - Forums - World of Warcraft

Healing Surge for sham pre-lvl 20 - Forums - World of Warcraft

Low level PvP - Forums - World of Warcraft

Warrior PvP at low lvl...

Lowbie pvp. - Forums - World of Warcraft

[Leveling in BGs] Honor Capped - Forums - World of Warcraft

Low level pvp and prot paladins

Low level paladins 10- 70 ( at least) - Forums - World of Warcraft

Hunters are oneshotting ppl in low lvl bgs - Forums - World of Warcraft

http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/18511-so-i-just-got-1-shot-hunter-hes-laughing-me.html

Low level BG help - Forums - World of Warcraft

URGENT low lvl BG help - Forums - World of Warcraft



These are just some of the few threads I noticed since starting this project. There are no doubt many other similar to these threads.

 

[Pizza]

You mind if I post this on the US forums also once it's all said and done?

 

[Kore nametooshort]

You mind if I post this on the US forums also once it's all said and done?

Yes, I do. I want to be able to repond directly to any and every comment and i won't be able to do that unless i get a US account info so i can post there. I'm very happy for you to cross post it i.e. make a thread with a link to the EU one, but not to copy paste it im afraid.



In reality im not quite sure how i'm going to post this... the battlenet forums have a max character limit of 5000 characters per post and this post is 42000. I can't wait 9 minutes inbetween posting the first and last posts....

 

[augiddin]

make thread reserve a bunch of spaces and edit?

 

[Kore nametooshort]

make thread reserve a bunch of spaces and edit?

it'll take 9 posts and you have to wait a minute inbetween every post, so i can't guarantee that i'll end up with it all consecutive.

 

[Severe]

it'll take 9 posts and you have to wait a minute inbetween every post, so i can't guarantee that i'll end up with it all consecutive.

Then shorten it to just the first paragraph and problems, then discuss the possible changes in the thread with your ideas? You should not give it off as an accumulative of what the twink population wants - it is not - many of the changes you wouldn't budge on (surprise) are still in there and makes the post as a whole somewhat unattractive. It also saves you from being laughed at with some of the more radical suggestions (such as changing specializations to cater to low level pvp).

 

[augiddin]

tbh i just think this whole thread is way to specific to the 19s bracket for blizzard to bother looking at it

 

[Inkobah]

it'll take 9 posts and you have to wait a minute inbetween every post, so i can't guarantee that i'll end up with it all consecutive.

Perhaps you can find 8 other people that would be willing to copy paste an assigned section all at the same time. Shouldn't be too hard if you all get on vent and give everyone their section ahead of time.



-Ink

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Im gonna give this at least another 24 hours before i start working on presenting this to blizz. If you have anything further to add say it sooner rather than later.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Im gonna give this at least another 24 hours before i start working on presenting this to blizz. If you have anything further to add say it sooner rather than later.

Bump. I guess this means its nigh on ready.

 

[chancho1010]

So much of this is perrrrfect.... Some things I agree with THE MOST :



Restos and balance both lack tools to deal with melee while being able to continue doing their job. If a melee gets on a druid he either risks being locked out of the nature school by casting a root or wasting precious seconds running away in travel form.



The damage of Explosive Shot has been reduced by 30%



Prot and ret paladins should not find casting exorcism a suitable damage source.



And everything you said about rogues / penance/ and fire mages!!!



The wording and presentation of your entire argument is amazing, and should be crucial on how they receive the info. I think the justifications were spot on! Best of luck.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

I have emailed this directly to the CM team. This was their response:

Thanks for the feedback, I’ll pass it along to the class design team.



-Bashiok

I believe I'm done here.

 

[Curley]

I have emailed this directly to the CM team. This was their response:







I believe I'm done here.

Good job, you did awesome I hope some of these changes actually get implemented would like to see some more balance.

 

[chíll]

fabulous! simply amazing