EU+US How ilvl affects your gear in Legion FYI

[DeLindsay]

I meant; do we know the exact ilvl that the ilvl of your gear has to be higher than, to give you a stat increase?

Yes, as more than one Blue post has confirmed, there is no difference from Level 10-110. For every 1 average iLvL you gain over the static iLvL Blizzard assigns each Bracket, you gain 0.1% Stats. That means if you gain 10 average iLvL (iLvL 34 vs the 24 that the 10-19 Bracket will likely be) you will have 1% higher stats than the standard.

 

[DeLindsay]

Note...
That a 1% higher stat gain does not necessarily equate to a 1% output gain. Could be lower. Could be higher. That is something that we will have to wait and see to find out.

It certainly won't mean a direct 1% higher output gain, just like it doesn't for End Game Raiding. Adding 1% Stats never directly equals a full 1% gain in HPS/DPS/etc.

 

[Kryptonite]

Just read a juicy paragraph pertaining to how ilvl affects our gear in Legion...

Check this out:

We ultimately arrived at a solution where we set player stats automatically in PvP and increase those stats based on your average item level. Players would understand that their stats didn’t come from gear, but that the quality of their gear does matter. Currently, we’ve tuned the system such that for every point above item level 800, your stats are increased by 0.1%. This means that someone with item level 900 gear is only 10% stronger than someone with item level 800 gear. For comparison, that’s roughly the same increase that a mere 10 item level increase gives in Warlords of Draenor. This allows us to make getting gear feel good in general, while shrinking the power gap to an acceptable range.

Source:
http://eu.battle.net//wow/en/blog/20131410

Does this mean we get to keep wearing our precious quest/dungeon gear and not those pesky high ilvl whites?

I tested beta on level 100, the gear in legion does have stats. So to say ilvl will only be the damage factor is incorrect. Gear in legion beta have 4 stats like current expansion stats. Primary class stat +stam + 2 other secondary stats

 

[DeLindsay]

I tested beta on level 100, the gear in legion does have stats. So to say ilvl will only be the damage factor is incorrect. Gear in legion beta have 4 stats like current expansion stats. Primary class stat +stam + 2 other secondary stats

I'm not sure you quite understand how the new BG static system will work, either that or you're attempting to troll. Ofc Gear still has stats in Legion, why would you expect any different?

Once you enter a Battleground come Legion you are assigned a static iLvL based on that Level Bracket. Blizz has stated this iLvL will be on par with what Heirloom Gear scales to at x9 of each Bracket. They have also stated that each Class will have a predetermined Stat Template, based off of whatever Blizzard decides as they haven't said publicly what factors are involved. Stats on Gear, Enchants, Gems, Set Bonuses, Procs (except the Artifact Weapon) will all be disabled for all Instanced Battlegrounds. Just because you can still see the Stats on the Gear once in a BG during Beta doesn't remotely mean they are a factor, but instead a hidden Stat Template is overriding the Gear.

 

[Snack]

Yes, as more than one Blue post has confirmed, there is no difference from Level 10-110. For every 1 average iLvL you gain over the static iLvL Blizzard assigns each Bracket, you gain 0.1% Stats. That means if you gain 10 average iLvL (iLvL 34 vs the 24 that the 10-19 Bracket will likely be) you will have 1% higher stats than the standard.

You completely misunderstood my question, but

Blizz has stated this iLvL will be on par with what Heirloom Gear scales to at x9 of each Bracket.

Answered it

 

[willix]

imo tinking isn't dying, it's just changing

No, you're refusing to let go of something clearly being phased out of the game you like to play. At what point are you going to stop calling it twinking? They've already proven that gear is not a factor in low level pvp come legion by putting everyone in the same BGs again. They wouldn't have done that if you could still leverage 'twinking' to an advantage in pvp.

It's just a matter of semantics at this point, the part of the game that you love today doesn't exist in Legion. But I'm glad you'll still run around lowbie BGs acting like it does!

Lol man your just living in the past you and others who say "oh 3.2 was the peak of twinking like dude get over it, ya twinking might drop a little come legion but twinking was not dying at all your just living in the past, your the 40 yr old man that's still gloats about his glory days in high school, you need to get over that and you need to change with the system or you get left behind which you did. I agree that twinking is becoming dumbed down in this bracket but no it's not dead, it's just hitting a speed bump

3.2 wasn't the peak of twinking, it was the patch that added segregation to the game and killed queues UNTIL people started migrating to different battlegroups for pops. Do you understand what that meant? That meant the day before 3.2 went live, we were mucking it up doing our twinking things, enjoying all the things that made twinking fun, and then the next day, no one was able to do that anymore. For days. Weeks. Months. It took so long for activity to start up again after that, we all knew what was at stake at that point.

That's when people stepped up to lead, when rules started weeding out assholes, when organization became the key to having activity. The bigger point, is that the peak of twinking was before 3.2. It was the summer before 3.0, when season 4 was still going strong and everyone cared about pvp at all levels.

As for 'living in the past?' Quite to the contrary, I'm telling people to let go of the past right here in this thread.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

3.2 wasn't the peak of twinking, it was the patch that added segregation to the game and killed queues UNTIL people started migrating to different battlegroups for pops.

I fully agree with your post but this did not count for our battlegroup at time of segeration. We had our xp off games from the start (only 2 eu battlegroups managed doing so) and the spanish were lucky to be in ours too. It was mostly my guid and the rest of the horde vs spanish guild no hands no glory and the rest the spanish alliance untill people migrated, it started with the spanish guild, to the more active battlegroup and stationed on Draenor. We were the lucky ones at the start but unlucky in terms of euros we had to pay to get activity again with migrating to Draenor. Personally I migrated due to this 6 level 19 tinks.

 

[Snack]

No, you're refusing to let go of something clearly being phased out of the game you like to play. At what point are you going to stop calling it twinking? They've already proven that gear is not a factor in low level pvp come legion by putting everyone in the same BGs again. They wouldn't have done that if you could still leverage 'twinking' to an advantage in pvp.

It's just a matter of semantics at this point, the part of the game that you love today doesn't exist in Legion. But I'm glad you'll still run around lowbie BGs acting like it does!



3.2 wasn't the peak of twinking, it was the patch that added segregation to the game and killed queues UNTIL people started migrating to different battlegroups for pops. Do you understand what that meant? That meant the day before 3.2 went live, we were mucking it up doing our twinking things, enjoying all the things that made twinking fun, and then the next day, no one was able to do that anymore. For days. Weeks. Months. It took so long for activity to start up again after that, we all knew what was at stake at that point.

That's when people stepped up to lead, when rules started weeding out assholes, when organization became the key to having activity. The bigger point, is that the peak of twinking was before 3.2. It was the summer before 3.0, when season 4 was still going strong and everyone cared about pvp at all levels.

As for 'living in the past?' Quite to the contrary, I'm telling people to let go of the past right here in this thread.

Twinking isn't dying. I know you all love to be the doomsday prophets, but as long ad there exist people with locked exp in a low leel PvP bracket, twinking will prevail.

And @l30t53dd6p regarding our earlier discussion about the definition of twinking; it isn't going to die or end either, since gear advantage is still a thing, even though it's of course a much smaller potential advantage that we can gain, but nevertheless an advantage. twinking will still be a thing, even when you, as you did, think of it as the irl term twinking.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

And @l30t53dd6p regarding our earlier discussion about the definition of twinking; it isn't going to die or end either, since gear advantage is still a thing, even though it's of course a much smaller potential advantage that we can gain, but nevertheless an advantage. twinking will still be a thing, even when you, as you did, think of it as the irl term twinking.

Sorry m8 snack, you still have a bad understanding about tinkering and still giving your own twist to it while there can't be such a thing seeing of its herritage. Period.

 

[Snack]

Sorry m8 snack, you still have a bad understanding about tinkering and still giving your own twist to it while there can't be such a thing seeing of its herritage. Period.

No need to feel sorry, since you're the one with the incredibly static and unrelenting idea of twinking I know you feel like a veteran, and that having twinked through numerous expacs and different stages of twinking enables you to have this patented view on twinking. But right now, you're just comming of as an old grumpy man who refuses to change with the times because they remind him less and less of what used to be.


But really, our earlier argument revolve around your idea of twinking; that it was high level characters 'giving gifts' etc to low level characters. If that is how you define twinking, then why is it going to die? High level characters will, as of right now in Legion, still be able to buy items that will increase your ilvl, and thus giving you the advantage over non-twinks that seperates us.

 

[oeuf]

Twinks will always adapt and find an advantage, even if the numeric advantages offered in legion border on the cosmetic.

Everyone on here has a slightly different definition of twinking and what it was / is to them.

When legion lands and the dusts of the new expansion clear I won't care about my naxx shoulders, the GF gear, all the LFH with the weird head enchants, the 450 herbalism and mining, the multiple accounts, the grey enti's quenched sword, the orphaned enchants, all the server transfers and faction changes, the agms, the heirlooms, the enchanters, the grinds and the titles that are account wide now.

In a few months time, there will be a load more pops, a hell of a lot more scrubblenubs but the game will carry on.

Maybe the golden age of twinking is coming to an end, but to suggest that twinking is dead? Heard it all before - before and after every expansion. Blizzard can't balance low level PVP perfectly. There will always be an advantage to be had and a reward for those who are willing to put in the effort.

I welcome these changes.

BGS. popping. every 3 minutes.

 

[Mvq]

• Gear advantage is still a thing in Legion in BGs, so Twinks will still be a thing. Reason being that there are items that have higher iLvl than others and the higher iLvl means the higher stats. Source: Read the "Kicking It Into Gear" section.
• A Characters Gear Advantage, aswell as being below max-level, is what makes it a Twink. Source.
• The iLvl that your gear will scale to will be 24 or 23 at level 19. Reason being that the PvP Gear awarded from the Strongboxes at lower levels come Legion will scale to iLvl 23 for lvl 19s. So it's safe to assume that it won't be any higher than that. Source: These kinda items drop from the boxes. These are the boxes.

 

[DeLindsay]

Twinks will always adapt and find an advantage, even if the numeric advantages offered in legion border on the cosmetic.

This is all that needs to be said.

 

[willix]

Twinking isn't dying. I know you all love to be the doomsday prophets, but as long ad there exist people with locked exp in a low leel PvP bracket, twinking will prevail.

Locking your XP isn't what makes you a twink. Pvping in a low level bracket isn't what makes you a twink. Overcoming the games handicap and hitting the max output for your class through gear, enchants, and items, is what makes you a twink. That's the ONLY thing that makes you a twink. Playing with your buds? That's just... playing with your buds. You can call it twinking, but then the word becomes diluted in its meaning, having less effect in its use. Eventually, everything is twinking and then it's a useless word, serving no purpose than to make you feel special.

Twinking is indeed dying, enjoy it while you can.

No need to feel sorry, since you're the one with the incredibly static and unrelenting idea of twinking I know you feel like a veteran, and that having twinked through numerous expacs and different stages of twinking enables you to have this patented view on twinking. But right now, you're just comming of as an old grumpy man who refuses to change with the times because they remind him less and less of what used to be.

Even if it were going to be a matter of everyone starting with a base ilvl of zero, and having 34 ilvl meant having a 3.4% more stats than someone with no gear at all, that still wouldn't be enough of an advantage to separate you as a twink. Instead, you're going to be starting at ilvl 34 (in this bracket) while wearing no gear at all. And to get your 3.4% power increase, you need an average ilvl 68. Do you think that 3.4% power increase will even matter? Your template, meaning all your stats from survival to throughput are predetermined, based on spec. Which means your spec is limited to what they've chosen for your already. A flat 3.4% increase is negligible at best. Your victories will come down to circumstance the vast majority of the time anyway. You won't be able to just out gear people who don't put forth any effort into their toons, and you certainly won't be able to leverage your stats in a meaningful way that makes the most out of that 3.4% increase. Basically, everything that enables twinking, makes it fun, exciting, interesting, challenging, ect; is being removed from the game in legion.

That's the part you don't seem to understand. Before 3.2, if you didn't put that effort into your character, you were just out geared by any twink and they would win just because of that fact. I've watched terrible players just dominate a BG because none of the players on the other side had any gear. In Legion, that's no longer possible. At all. You walk into a BG naked? You have ilvl 34 stats, just like all the twinks wearing ilvl 34 gear right now.

That's why twinking is dead in Legion. Not because we refuse to change the definition of a word.

Twinks will always adapt and find an advantage, even if the numeric advantages offered in legion border on the cosmetic.

On live right now, the difference between a player with Ele Force enchants and no enchants is demonstrably huge. Even if all gear is the same, the player without Ele Force is doomed unless the skill is skewed horribly in that person's favor. Stuff like that is what gives you demonstrable advantages in pvp right now on live. In Legion, all of these demonstrable advantages vanish. You have no procs, no trinkets, no items, and no stat advantage from gear. The 'advantage' just doesn't matter.

 

[Snack]

3 things:

1. I agree that a 3-5%~ or whatever stat advantage wont enable you to faceroll noobs, but first of all it is still a potential advantage that the average leveler wont have, amd secondly it's been a looong time since twinking was about facerolling people (unless ofc you play in the pay2win bracket).

2. Following up on my last point, through the past several years most twinks have been almost equally geared, there might only be a 3-5%~ difference in stats due to GF'd gear. Sorta like the stat difference in Legion? :>

3. You need to open your eyes. Twinking wont die. Period. As long as there are people out there witht their exp locked and trying to get the biggest possible gear advantage, twinking will still exist. I know it's hard to grasp.

Imo there have always been two aspects important when defining twinking in a certain era:
The accqusition of gear.
And who and why they are playing.

How you accquire your gear have barely changed; you get it from dungeons, from expensive BoE's or high level quests, sometimes you need the help of a high level (hence the word 'twink'), sometimes you dont.
And even though gear will have a less important role in Legion it seems, there will still be a potential advantage, which you are probably gonna need a high level to get.

Now the opponents you face and why you twink have deffinately changed:
First we facerolled noobs, now we play against other twinks, and soon we are gonna do both; faceroll noobs in pugs and play competetive wargames against other twinks.

In other words - if you look at what twinks have been doing and what they actually are, it's not gonna die, it's gonna change.

 

[SPQR]

Pre patch seems to be on ptr so now people can start testing arenas, legion invasions ect on low levels.

 

[willix]

1. I agree that a 3-5%~ or whatever stat advantage wont enable you to faceroll noobs, but first of all it is still a potential advantage that the average leveler wont have, amd secondly it's been a looong time since twinking was about facerolling people (unless ofc you play in the pay2win bracket).

Facerolling noobs was never the definition of twinking. The definition was/is/always will be: doing things in game to attain the maximum throughput for your class to remove that handicap you're given at the start of the game. Twinking has always been the act of removing that handicap so you're at your 'theoretical best.' Doesn't matter if you're doing it to faceroll noobs, play on even ground in a tournament of your peers, fawn over your creations, or to just cause maximum chaos. That's not what defines twinking.

2. Following up on my last point, through the past several years most twinks have been almost equally geared, there might only be a 3-5%~ difference in stats due to GF'd gear. Sorta like the stat difference in Legion? :>

Twinks have always been 'equally geared' in the sense that they saw the purpose and reason behind Wow's character design. They didn't want to be handicapped against other players, so they went for the best items/chants they could find and *gasp* fit the definition of a twink. You and your buddies can deny that because 'lel not my opinion of BiS' but that's also irrelevant to the definition of twinking.

But the point I'm making isn't about twinks being equally geared. It's about there being a gearing path to power and there being a disparity between players who don't take that path and those who do. That's what is going away. Traveling that path is the essence to twinking. That path is gone in Legion. There just won't be a meaningful difference between a 'twink' and a 'non twink' and thus 'twinking' is dead in legion.

3. You need to open your eyes. Twinking wont die. Period. As long as there are people out there witht their exp locked and trying to get the biggest possible gear advantage, twinking will still exist. I know it's hard to grasp.

Imo there have always been two aspects important when defining twinking in a certain era:
The accqusition of gear.
And who and why they are playing.

How you accquire your gear have barely changed; you get it from dungeons, from expensive BoE's or high level quests, sometimes you need the help of a high level (hence the word 'twink'), sometimes you dont.
And even though gear will have a less important role in Legion it seems, there will still be a potential advantage, which you are probably gonna need a high level to get.

Now the opponents you face and why you twink have deffinately changed:
First we facerolled noobs, now we play against other twinks, and soon we are gonna do both; faceroll noobs in pugs and play competetive wargames against other twinks.

Open my eyes? Aren't you the one sitting here insisting that twinking isn't going anywhere? Listen. I'm fully aware that you'll still be playing with your buds in BGs and arenas, that all those people you called 'twink' all these years are still going to hang out and play for the same reasons they played this game before. Blizzard isn't removing owning noobs from the game. Or playing with your friends.

They're just removing twinking.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And of course, not everyone has to agree with them.

Many people play and do just fine without the use of elemental force. I know I do.

Have a wonderful day!

Definitions of words are not a matter of opinion. You don't get to decide what the word 'twink' means by assigning the reasons why you twink as the definition. You're just explaining why you like to twink at that point.

I don't care you use ele force or not, it's a demonstrable fact that you're playing sub-optimally if you decide not to use it (or any enchants/BiS gear options). No one cares that you're fine with being sub-optimal.

But you probably should.

 

[Snack]

Facerolling noobs was never the definition of twinking. The definition was/is/always will be: doing things in game to attain the maximum throughput for your class to remove that handicap you're given at the start of the game. Twinking has always been the act of removing that handicap so you're at your 'theoretical best.' Doesn't matter if you're doing it to faceroll noobs, play on even ground in a tournament of your peers, fawn over your creations, or to just cause maximum chaos. That's not what defines twinking.



Twinks have always been 'equally geared' in the sense that they saw the purpose and reason behind Wow's character design. They didn't want to be handicapped against other players, so they went for the best items/chants they could find and *gasp* fit the definition of a twink. You and your buddies can deny that because 'lel not my opinion of BiS' but that's also irrelevant to the definition of twinking.

But the point I'm making isn't about twinks being equally geared. It's about there being a gearing path to power and there being a disparity between players who don't take that path and those who do. That's what is going away. Traveling that path is the essence to twinking. That path is gone in Legion. There just won't be a meaningful difference between a 'twink' and a 'non twink' and thus 'twinking' is dead in legion.



Open my eyes? Aren't you the one sitting here insisting that twinking isn't going anywhere? Listen. I'm fully aware that you'll still be playing with your buds in BGs and arenas, that all those people you called 'twink' all these years are still going to hang out and play for the same reasons they played this game before. Blizzard isn't removing owning noobs from the game. Or playing with your friends.

They're just removing twinking.



Definitions of words are not a matter of opinion. You don't get to decide what the word 'twink' means by assigning the reasons why you twink as the definition. You're just explaining why you like to twink at that point.

I don't care you use ele force or not, it's a demonstrable fact that you're playing sub-optimally if you decide not to use it (or any enchants/BiS gear options). No one cares that you're fine with being sub-optimal.

But you probably should.

Your whole argument rests on your definition of twinking. But how come you get to decide the definition of twinking then? I'm sure @l30t53dd6p would tell you a different definition, even though he actually agreed with you.

 

[willix]

No one gets to 'decide' what words mean - that's the part you don't get. The definitions of words are not a matter of opinion. Twinking has meant the same thing it does now since the term was first used back in the day during D&D campaigns. From now until Wow shuts down, twinking will either be possible (because items and enchants contribute to player power in pvp) or impossible (because they don't).

Not really sure what's so hard to understand here...

 

[Snack]

No one gets to 'decide' what words mean - that's the part you don't get. The definitions of words are not a matter of opinion. Twinking has meant the same thing it does now since the term was first used back in the day during D&D campaigns. From now until Wow shuts down, twinking will either be possible (because items and enchants contribute to player power in pvp) or impossible (because they don't).

Not really sure what's so hard to understand here...

I dont know man, @l30t53dd6p had a pretty different idea of how twinking originated and thus also the definition.

But even if we follow your definition, twinking won't die; you will still be able to optimize your gear. Even though it's a only a slight advantage, there will probably be a bigger difference in stats between players in pugs in Legion than there is now.