Hi, Im Khaos and I have a message

[Khaos]

I began writing this post in another thread and as the post continued to get longer and longer I figured I would go ahead and make a new Thread.


Hi, I'm Khaos

I was raised to give respect and show kindness even when people do not do the same to you. I have had multiple personas in my many many years playing within the 19 twink community and just because my name has changed multiple times doesn't mean my attitude has changed. What I am getting at is this always happens over and over, when the bracket goes dead for a bit, the elitists come out of the wood works. And just because when you played these last couple of times, when the bracket was active, you and/or the group of players you played with was successful within the gulch. You feel you are entitled to call the players who have played just as long if not longer than you bad because they do not take a game as seriously as you do. You guys need to take a pill and get some sort of social life because at the end of the day this is just a game. It is for entertainment, the fact that alot of you elitist takes this game as serious as you do, I question why do you guys even play. How is it fun for you?

I am stating all this because, as of recent I have noticed a lot of players with this attitude that they have the right to call other players bad. Tell them they shouldnt be playing and ask players why do they even play. And my response even though it is not towards me is People play this because it is a game, it can be fun for those who know what they like to do within the game.

With all this though there are a few select people I would like to touch base on that seems to be making the most waves

Agnostic- Can people really not see past his new persona of "The one True King" I do not take much of what agnostic says seriously as I look past the persona and sees what he is doing. No one would put as much effort into the bracket if he didn't care about it. Trying to get organized games happening for competitive atmosphere is what revived the bracket the last time and he is good at doing just that. Do I agree with his elitist nature? No but I do respect the man for continuing to try and keep this bracket alive and people need to look past his persona and see that he really is trying to help in his own way.

Mocha- OK, seriously people Mocha has been around for a long time, he is a Mod for a reason, he is fair and really does say what he feels is right for the bracket. He has always been that way, I am sure many of the players the like to troll him have infractions and he could ban you if needed, yet notice alot of you remain active on the forums? The fact that the elitist players troll him as "bad" when he really is not a bad player just goes to show that they really do not have much on him. People need to get off their high horse and realize that at the end of the day Mocha will still be around trying to help the new players way past you guys being forgotten.

TL/SR and other Elitist Alike- I respect all of you as players, every single one of you play the game well and with a high skill level, yet with this comes, like I said above, a sense of entitlement that you all feel like because of your skill level you feel like you can be rude and disrespectful to other players. Is there anything I can do about this? No, other than point out the pure doucheiness of this it is up to you all to realize what kind of impact this makes.

I have preached before that the 19 bracket will only be hurt by this elitist nature...are we getting pops? Are we as active as we have been in the past? Every time the bracket goes dead and comes back it lasts alittle less than the time before, people state this is the natural rotation, yet you cannot tell me that the 19s are thriving as much as they did back in Cata/WotLK? When there was a carebear attitude present where twinks actually respected one another. Of course there was trolls yet not as many as we have nowadays.

With all this said, I know this post will be trolled and as much is expected, sad isn't it?


TL;DR
Elitist's need an attitude check, slowly killing off the bracket from the sense of entitlement they get in a Game is not fun at all.

 

[Junoo]

great post, shame it will be in vain

 

[Dreeze]

plz add a "tldr". Thanks in advance.

 

[Drayner]

plz add a "tldr". Thanks in advance.

TL;DR Version...
90% of the pricks that read it won't understand it because they are the eThugs that think the douchebaggery the bring to this bracket promotes an active, healthy bracket... but it drives away more people than they think.

 

[Mocha]

Liked your post before even reading the section about me.

It's exactly what I was trying to say when Milfish made a post asking about queue times as he was returning to the bracket and was met with a fist to the face.

Not only are returning veterans being exposed to such garbage to the point where they are glad that they aren't a part of this community any more, but more importantly, new players are being exposed to this as well.

If you come across a community where everyone is stabbing each other and vandalizing each other's property, why would you want to be a part of that community?

Simply put you wouldn't.

Truly sad.

Maybe it's more upsetting that the few people in this community that people look up to simply don't have the guts to make a difference. This late in the game I've accepted that people will continue to bear their self inflected wounds with a "swag" bandaid as opposed to gutting up to take a step out of the bullshit in attempt to improve everybody's experience.

It's the "pwning nubs" mindset. People need to see past that and realize that we're all twinks here and we shouldn't be tearing each other limb from limb on the forums or in game. After all, we do rely on each other for queues...

Instead of capitalizing on every advantage we can get our hands on (insanely op specs, group queuing with other op specs, Skype calling) just so we can steamroll pugs, we should understand the ripples of our decisions and find a way to cause less damage whilst still giving you a fun experience.

Could you imagine if we didn't play boomies just because they were ridiculously op?

Could you imagine if we played healers in attempt to counter the crazy op dps classes?

Could you imagine if we posted with respect towards other members?

People post on these forums like it's warsong gulch. They capitalize on everything they can in attempt to destroy someone and they even have their friends support them.

The same lack of ethics that destroys our battlegrounds is the same thing that destroys our experience on these forums and it can all be solved by simply respecting others, and more importantly having the balls to show your respect for others.

If you respected someone you wouldn't be sitting here trying to make them look weak on the forums or in game. If you respected someone you would be looking to build our community for the better and help design ways to produce creativity, change and growth in the population over time.

Yada yada I've said it all since 2011 after I got back from my ban and changed what type of person I was. I was an elitist punk looking to destroy others, until I saw what damage we were doing to ourselves and realized that we're shooting ourselves in the feet and overnight pulled a 180.

 

[Khaos]

great post, shame it will be in vain

Yes most likely it will be in vain, but atleast it is out there and if new twinks can see that there is players out there that are not completely elitist maybe we can encourage their attitude for the better. If I help one twink it is a win.

plz add a "tldr". Thanks in advance.

Added but honestly it really isnt that long.

 

[Mocha]

plz add a "tldr". Thanks in advance.

These are forums.

If someone doesn't want to read a post they should leave.

No need for TL;DR

 

[Nicozy]

If you are trying to make some benevolent point about elitism then you should not bunch a group of individuals who happen to play under one guildname together like a single organism, to label them all as douches is also crossing the line and you just make yourself look silly.

It is no coincidence that the QQ about guilds usually come from people who on a regular basis take a beating. Since you fail to address these "douches"(as you refer to them as) on the battlefield you must attack them somewhere else. It is indeed reverse elitism that is the issue, less than average people complaining and discouraging people from improving and getting better, pointing out the best and strongest players/guilds as the bogeyman when they instead should be looked up to and approached for advice.


I see an equal amount of bad players as good who are rude and disrespectful on a regular basis so claiming that only the good players do it is beyond stupid. Also we have to distinguish between just plain nastiness and "rude" criticism that is said for a reason. It is common among lesser players that they regard any comments about their playstyle as "offensive" instead of either challenging the comment or agree and improve. It is a way to feel safe inside their little bubble.

TLDR: The reversed elitism has got to stop, you should cherish and encourage the stronger players of the bracket not the other way around.

 

[Drayner]

I came back a month ago from a 6 month break. I created a brand new 19, complete with AGM.. pretty much BiS. I have since leveled it to 24 as well. I made a post a month ago about my experience in the "new and improved" US 19 bracket:

During the week, I played about 15 games and all I saw was negative crap in /bg chat, most of which were from a few members of TI that are always talking down to people. I also so a ton of faction swapping. 2 people seemed to afk every game I was in only to show up on the other side a few minutes later.

I keep reading posts here saying that the carebears ruin the bracket, that the shit talk on TI spawns activity...Maybe if you want activity with the same group of guys with the same toxic attitudes and ideals.

I am already hearing complaints from old school 39s about the 19 bracket invading the 39 bracket recently... a couple of which have decided to stop queueing 39s, myself included. I don't consider myself and old school 39, but I used to play a couple toons back in the day so when they started getting traction, I decided to retrofit my old 39 lock. I was quite rusty. The 1st time out, I didn't have 1/2 my new found spells bound and took a couple weeks off to get everything set up. I came back and played a few more games and was turned off quite fast by the conversations in Axom.

Anyhow. My TL;DR is about... douchebaggery doesn't promote community. The 19 community used to be great... now it's like... well... you know...fuck it. It's bad.

 

[Sponsor]

Khaos, brilliantly spoken.

This is exactly how I feel about the 19s bracket. I used to play a lot in 19s during woltk/cata, but this is exactly what scared me off of the bracket. I do not want to target anyone in particular, but generally speaking ppl from BH are extremely rude towards new comers. However, I do want to pin point some blame onto Curley and his pug-mades when they spamm reported my bis 16 rogue because I wasnt 19. These little childish acts have latent effects on the outcome of a community. And sadly, now that the bracket is dead, we can see that the results of these acts.

cheers

 

[Trialdruid]

I wonder why the same discussion is being ruminated over and over again, the bracket has never been more inactive than now, obviously the attitude people have towards each other and the game is the issue and hasn't changed and doubt it will until there isn't even a single regular playing the bracket

 

[Drayner]

I wonder why the same discussion is being ruminated over and over again, the bracket has never been more inactive than now, obviously the attitude people have towards each other and the game is the issue and hasn't changed and doubt it will until there isn't even a single regular playing the bracket

You are right... My bad. I will stop beating a dead horse. I'll stick to my LFR nights and 10 arena wins, if I get lucky, per week.

 

[Khaos]

If you are trying to make some benevolent point about elitism then you should not bunch a group of individuals who happen to play under one guildname together like a single organism, to label them all as douches is also crossing the line and you just make yourself look silly.

It is no coincidence that the QQ about guilds usually come from people who on a regular basis take a beating. Since you fail to address these "douches"(as you refer to them as) on the battlefield you must attack them somewhere else. It is indeed reverse elitism that is the issue, less than average people complaining and discouraging people from improving and getting better, pointing out the best and strongest players/guilds as the bogeyman when they instead should be looked up to and approached for advice.


I see an equal amount of bad players as good who are rude and disrespectful on a regular basis so claiming that only the good players do it is beyond stupid. Also we have to distinguish between just plain nastiness and "rude" criticism that is said for a reason. It is common among lesser players that they regard any comments about their playstyle as "offensive" instead of either challenging the comment or agree and improve. It is a way to feel safe inside their little bubble.

TLDR: The reversed elitism has got to stop, you should cherish and encourage the stronger players of the bracket not the other way around.

Not sure you read much of my post, I am not getting down on people due to their skill I am getting down on them due to their attitude against other players. The fact that you got defensive over the fact that I lumped them all into one group is bothersome. A guild is a group of players who support one another, if they do not agree/support the actions of the 90% of the other guild then why be a part of it. They are just as guilty for not standing up against the elitist attitude. I do agree not all the players in the guilds are rude and disrespectful but when 90% of the guild are elitist that is the image of the guild tag and that is the repercussions of flying that guild tag.

You say that we should commend the skilled players because they are better than the rest....I do not deny they are skilled players yet I deserve just as much respect as any other person. Just because you are skilled player in game, does not give you the right to put down players who even though they are not as good in certain aspects still pays for the right to play and they deserve just as much respect.

So in no way, just because people are more skilled in a game, do they have the right to be disrespectful to fellow twinks. As Mocha stated at the end of the day we are all twinks, if we do not show each other respect why should those who get called bad queue? They really shouldnt but it is the fact that the few people who show respect to all and encourage fun games keep those players coming back.

 

[Khaos]

Respect is earned, alot of people feel that respect is earned from being the best, when in fact respect is earned by showing respect.

Being the best allows for bragging rights, Brag away...Great players deserve the praise they get. They do not though get the right to put down other players.

 

[Solipsist]

If you are trying to make some benevolent point about elitism then you should not bunch a group of individuals who happen to play under one guildname together like a single organism, to label them all as douches is also crossing the line and you just make yourself look silly.

It is no coincidence that the QQ about guilds usually come from people who on a regular basis take a beating. Since you fail to address these "douches"(as you refer to them as) on the battlefield you must attack them somewhere else. It is indeed reverse elitism that is the issue, less than average people complaining and discouraging people from improving and getting better, pointing out the best and strongest players/guilds as the bogeyman when they instead should be looked up to and approached for advice.


I see an equal amount of bad players as good who are rude and disrespectful on a regular basis so claiming that only the good players do it is beyond stupid. Also we have to distinguish between just plain nastiness and "rude" criticism that is said for a reason. It is common among lesser players that they regard any comments about their playstyle as "offensive" instead of either challenging the comment or agree and improve. It is a way to feel safe inside their little bubble.

TLDR: The reversed elitism has got to stop, you should cherish and encourage the stronger players of the bracket not the other way around.

This.

The ''elitists'' have given competitive games/premades/drama which has increased activity as a whole. ''No'' elitists in the bracket, or how some of you put them as ''douchebags'' equals an uncompetitive bracket that no one wants to play. The competive nature i.e people shit talking each other is a faster epidemic towards a competitive atmosphere then ''lets all live in a fairy wonderland with Unicorns skipping around and be nice to everyone''. 19s have never worked like that and can't strive without that ''competitive nature vibe''.

 

[Nicozy]

Not sure you read much of my post, I am not getting down on people due to their skill I am getting down on them due to their attitude against other players. The fact that you got defensive over the fact that I lumped them all into one group is bothersome. A guild is a group of players who support one another, if they do not agree/support the actions of the 90% of the other guild then why be a part of it. They are just as guilty for not standing up against the elitist attitude. I do agree not all the players in the guilds are rude and disrespectful but when 90% of the guild are elitist that is the image of the guild tag and that is the repercussions of flying that guild tag.

You say that we should commend the skilled players because they are better than the rest....I do not deny they are skilled players yet I deserve just as much respect as any other person. Just because you are skilled player in game, does not give you the right to put down players who even though they are not as good in certain aspects still pays for the right to play and they deserve just as much respect.

So in no way, just because people are more skilled in a game, do they have the right to be disrespectful to fellow twinks. As Mocha stated at the end of the day we are all twinks, if we do not show each other respect why should those who get called bad queue? They really shouldnt but it is the fact that the few people who show respect to all and encourage fun games keep those players coming back.

You are only getting down on people who happen to play in competitive guilds, there is no mention of all the bad players and how equal their behavior and rudeness is. So yes you are in fact singling out the stronger players and claiming that they are all alike, that they are all douchebags and rude elitists while in fact it is just as prevalent if not more among the lower caliber players.

"A guild is a group of players who support one another, if they do not agree/support the actions of the 90% of the other guild then why be a part of it." Look right there, you are claiming that 90% of the top guilds are elitist which in your mind equates to being rude and a douchebag. Either your view of elitism is severely skewed or you are once again putting people together as a single organism.
And I think you fail to understand why the people are in said guild and underestimate the amount of players that constantly stream in asking to join the top guilds, there are constant requests from new twinks to join said guilds so they must be doing something right?

"So in no way, just because people are more skilled in a game, do they have the right to be disrespectful to fellow twinks." WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT?! I say the issue is not with how skilled a person is, he can be Michael Jordan or your 5 ft 2 Malaysian guy who has never held a basketball before, both persons can be a "douchebag" yet you ONLY concern yourself with the top.

Also a quick comment on your point about encouraging "fun" games, this is often where stronger players and weaker ones collide as 1 group wants to have competitive games where you actually have to play close to top of your own level, where you can feel improvement, while 1 group wants to be able to parade in midfield showing off the latest transmog gear while smelling the flowers, shunning all thoughts about effective strategy's and instead go back to memory land of patch(insert whatever vanilla,tbc or wotlk patch) where you could do magical O and D or wear fishing hat as a rogue.

 

[Dreeze]

These are forums.

If someone doesn't want to read a post they should leave.

No need for TL;DR

It's not against the rules to politely ask for a tldr. I know for a fact, that most people would like one.


Hello.

 

[Dreeze]

Respect is earned, alot of people feel that respect is earned from being the best, when in fact respect is earned by showing respect.

Being the best allows for bragging rights, Brag away...Great players deserve the praise they get. They do not though get the right to put down other players.

I only felt the burn and the harrasment back in the days, from the so called; "Best players".

Tbh who cares. Internet.

 

[Character]

Khaos,
I for one agree with everything you have said. I got into WOW for the pvp, even before BGs were introduce into the game. The completive spirit of player vs player kept me amped for this game. Over time the pvp community changed and elitist’s guilds/attitudes ruined the game for me. Not because they were better, many were, but because they flaunted (emoted excessively/camped continually). I love the fight “one on one” two on one” using every action available with exact timing and in ways no one else thought of. I’m fine with not being the best but don’t knock me for trying I’ll keep getting back up and learning. I have since moved on but every now and then I pop in on my 19s to check on the state of the game. I have not seen anything worth returning for.

 

[Arkant]

You guys need to take a pill and get some sort of social life

And you are asking for respect?

Thanks for the laugh.