Florida 'Muslim Free Zone' fun shop owner wins discrimination lawsuit.

[Shaket]

Misdirecting is one of the primary tools of the defenders of the southern way of bigotry.

 

[Allybeboba]

who were you planning to bet with?

let's see, i'm responding to a statement that the first slave owner in the US was black, something that isn't difficult to refute. Why would you recontextualize my response to refer to all human history.

My reputation. What would you be willing to bet?

Let's see, I am taking it back EVEN further than that. And your statement cannot be referenced.
Of course we know who the "first slave owner" in the British Colonies of America was. He died in 1670. It would be impossible for him to be the first slave owner of the US. Since the US did not come into existence until 1776. Over one hundred years after his death. It would be impossible for him to be the first slave owner in the US. But, it is highly debatable that we know the "first" US slave owner. Because, the second the Declaration of Independence was signed every slave owner in the former British Colonies here became the "first slave owner in the US". Until that very moment, that title did not exist. Because the United States of America did not exist.
Additionally, only 5% of African slaves went to North America. The remaining 90-95% went to the Caribbean and South America. We do not know who owned whom in the other half other New World.
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/histo...hs-and-misconceptions-slavery-and-slave-trade

/cheers

 

[HéalBǿt]

Actually in the land of fruits and nut(California) it is illegal to sell a Conferderate flag believe it or not!

/cheers

Back in reality, it's illegal for the GOVERNMENT to sell or display the confederate flag in CA, individuals are of course covered under the 1st. Funny what happens when you remove a (critical) word.

You also failed to mention the many other states (mostly southern) that are doing similar things not to mention a long list of major corporations.

 

[Allybeboba]

Misdirecting is one of the primary tools of the defenders of the southern way of bigotry.

Please indicate "misdirects" and show examples of "bigotry", if you can.

Accusing someone of something and having no proof is a fools' errand.

/cheers

 

[Original]

I feel like you guys are confusing this. Do I disagree with what he is saying? Of course, I think it is awful, but it isn't illegal, he is protected by freedom of speech. HOWEVER, if he were to actually act on this and deny someone service then it would be illegal.

 

[Allybeboba]

Back in reality, it's illegal for the GOVERNMENT to sell or display the confederate flag in CA, individuals are of course covered under the 1st. Funny what happens when you remove a (critical) word.

You also failed to mention the many other states (mostly southern) that are doing similar things not to mention a long list of major corporations.

Did I remove I word?
I stated in California it is illegal to sell a confederate battle flag. Last year you could sell/display ANY flag in a government building. Now you can't sell/display the Conference battle flag ONLY. However, you could sell an ISIS flag. Go figure on that one? Go California!!


I did not fail to mention anything.
Those "major" corporations are dropping something that they did not sell very many of to appease a minuscule minority of people. And it worked. The sales of the Confederate battle flag was a drop in the bucket to these companies. It meant NOTHING to them. They wrote it off as a marketing loss. Nothing else... Retail is a dynamic environment. It is consumer driven. People are very fickle.

/cheers

 

[Allybeboba]

I feel like you guys are confusing this. Do I disagree with what he is saying? Of course, I think it is awful, but it isn't illegal, he is protected by freedom of speech. HOWEVER, if he were to actually act on this and deny someone service then it would be illegal.

That is why he won his lawsuit.
Apparently he did not discriminate against anyone. He just offended someone. And in America it is not illegal to do that. At least not yet. That time is near though, very very near.

/cheers

 

[Original]

That is why he won his lawsuit.
Apparently he did not discriminate against anyone. He just offended someone. And in America it is not illegal to do that. At least not yet. That time is near though, very very near.

/cheers

That's exactly what I said.... I said he was protected by freedom of speech, but if he acted on it it is illegal.

 

[Allybeboba]

Just because someone is allowed to act this way under the Constitution, it doesn't make it okay. As someone who believes in God, I thought you would have agreed with that. Jesus said that the two most important commandments are to love God and to love one another. The guy from the store isn't loving Muslim people. Instead, he is showing them hate and encouraging others to do the same. This kind of thing only further fuels the current discrimination against Muslim people in today's society.

I have no idea where this sign was or how big it was etc. What I do is that is got blown WAY out of proportion when it did not need to be. This guy could have lost his business. I don't have the background information at hand. I slightly remember when this started last year and CAIR was involved for some reason, simply because they have nothing better to do. And that is what they get paid to do. And the shop owner stood his ground much to their surprise. And that was the last I heard of it.
The thing is, only .9% of America's population is Muslim. I have no idea what the democraphic are in his area. We can't change our value system to capitulate to .9% of the population. That .9% needs to meld within our system. That goes for ANY minority. I don't just mean gender/race/religion/sexual preference. You can be a minority if you are short/tall/fat/skinny/hair color/bald/tattooed/disability/anything...

All this guy did was put up a sign that read "Muslim Free Zone".
If he had put up a sign that read "Wrinkle Free Zone" would old people have gotten the AARP involved? Nah..
Some groups of people go around LOOKING for reasons to be offended so they can gain something.

/cheers

 

[HéalBǿt]

Did I remove I word?
I stated in California it is illegal to sell a confederate battle flag. Last year you could sell/display ANY flag in a government building. Now you can't sell/display the Conference battle flag ONLY. However, you could sell an ISIS flag. Go figure on that one? Go California!!


I did not fail to mention anything.
Those "major" corporations are dropping something that they did not sell very many of to appease a minuscule minority of people. And it worked. The sales of the Confederate battle flag was a drop in the bucket to these companies. It meant NOTHING to them. They wrote it off as a marketing loss. Nothing else... Retail is a dynamic environment. It is consumer driven. People are very fickle.

/cheers

yes, the word you removed was "government". it's not illegal to sell a confederate flag, you just can't do it on government property. here's the actual bill...

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AJR26

what you failed to mention was that this is a national (i.e. multi-state) and federal thing, not something exclusive to california. corporate response was secondary but even there your providing invented figures, this "minuscule minority of people" is a substantial number, massively so. Here's a well respected poll.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/public-opinion-on-the-confederate-flag-and-the-civil-war/

 

[Umpteenth]

PSA: Not everyone from the South is a "racist redneck". The majority of everyone from the south is very open-minded and accepting. There's a few bad apples in the bunch, but that's expected.

 

[Light]

it seems allybebobas words dont really matter anymore: check it out
http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f20/rare-twinkinfo-thread-allybeboba-exposed-73839/

 

[Allybeboba]

yes, the word you removed was "government". it's not illegal to sell a confederate flag, you just can't do it on government property. here's the actual bill...

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AJR26

what you failed to mention was that this is a national (i.e. multi-state) and federal thing, not something exclusive to california. corporate response was secondary but even there your providing invented figures, this "minuscule minority of people" is a substantial number, massively so. Here's a well respected poll.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/public-opinion-on-the-confederate-flag-and-the-civil-war/

While that poll is very interesting. I am sure the the numbers would be even more skewed if that poll was to be taken now due how the media has ran the issue into the ground.
In those polls the flag was "favored" by Americans as whole. But when it came to the 12% of the population it was not. And sadly, those 12% determined what happened to it, not the 88%.
I could care less about it other than the small part than it played in in Texas' history. I don't think it should be erased from existence no more than I think the Nazi flag should be. But we should not, and we can not let happen,is let the minority(whatever that minority may be)of the population tell the majority of the population what they can and can not do. And unfortunately it is happening.

/cheers

 

[HéalBǿt]

While that poll is very interesting. I am sure the the numbers would be even more skewed if that poll was to be taken now due how the media has ran the issue into the ground.
In those polls the flag was "favored" by Americans as whole. But when it came to the 12% of the population it was not. And sadly, those 12% determined what happened to it, not the 88%.
I could care less about it other than the small part than it played in in Texas' history. I don't think it should be erased from existence no more than I think the Nazi flag should be. But we should not, and we can not let happen,is let the minority(whatever that minority may be)of the population tell the majority of the population what they can and can not do. And unfortunately it is happening.

/cheers

not sure where you got 12%. the total for 2015 was 33% and that was just racism vs. pride. when you look at the number for removing the confederate flag from government property it jumps to 55% in support. Regardless, none of these numbers fall into the "minuscule" category. your consistently misrepresentation information or simply making things up without substantiation.

i'm not sure how you determined that the minority of the pop determines what the majority does (unless your talking about almost all the business of the US government, conducted by a...minority, it's called "indirect democracy"). but seriously, what rights of yours are currently being infringed upon? your right to buy a confederate flag on government property? is that where people go to buy their confederate flags?

the nazi flag that you brought up is actually a very good example, probably the most contentious symbol in human history. guess what, you can buy, sell, manufacture, and or do pretty much whatever you want with that flag the the USA. If such an unpopular symbol can survive i'm pretty sure the confederate flag won't have any issues. technology pretty much guarantees this. i see no evidence of contentious symbols being "erased by history", i see the exact opposite. when human knowledge was exclusively recorded in print "revisionist history" was possible. technology has reached a point where nothing really disappears.

 

[Patrol]

But we should not, and we can not let happen,is let the minority(whatever that minority may be)of the population tell the majority of the population what they can and can not do. And unfortunately it is happening.

The rich are a minority of people exercising a majority of influence, no? As long as someone considers himself poor but doesn't want to be, he'll be pretty easy to manipulate. I don't see what you're trying to accomplish, or what means you expect to use to accomplish it.

 

[Allybeboba]

not sure where you got 12%. the total for 2015 was 33% and that was just racism vs. pride. when you look at the number for removing the confederate flag from government property it jumps to 55% in support. Regardless, none of these numbers fall into the "minuscule" category. your consistently misrepresentation information or simply making things up without substantiation.

i'm not sure how you determined that the minority of the pop determines what the majority does (unless your talking about almost all the business of the US government, conducted by a...minority, it's called "indirect democracy"). but seriously, what rights of yours are currently being infringed upon? your right to buy a confederate flag on government property? is that where people go to buy their confederate flags?

the nazi flag that you brought up is actually a very good example, probably the most contentious symbol in human history. guess what, you can buy, sell, manufacture, and or do pretty much whatever you want with that flag the the USA. If such an unpopular symbol can survive i'm pretty sure the confederate flag won't have any issues. technology pretty much guarantees this. i see no evidence of contentious symbols being "erased by history", i see the exact opposite. when human knowledge was exclusively recorded in print "revisionist history" was possible. technology has reached a point where nothing really disappears.

Because ~12% of Americans are black. And when you look at that poll as a entirety the majority "favored" the flag. While overwhelming blacks did not. And blacks only compromise 12% of American society, which leaves 88%. And that means that 12% told the country what to do. And that is not right. We are a democratic society where majority rules, not the minority. If that was the case, the losing vote would always win an election.
Thus why I said. "We can't let the minority tell the majority what it can and can not do." Unfortunately, this is already happening and has already happened. As in the case of the Confederate Battle Flag. People capitulated to a minority.
The shop owner did not. And he won his case. Kudos for him!!

As far as the Nazi flag, I could not tell you anything about that. I have never tried to purchase one. I have never even seen one for sale except in a pawn shop in Las Vegas. I can only presume that one was a WW2 era one.

/cheers

 

[Allybeboba]

The rich are a minority of people exercising a majority of influence, no? As long as someone considers himself poor but doesn't want to be, he'll be pretty easy to manipulate. I don't see what you're trying to accomplish, or what means you expect to use to accomplish it.

Yes, but those "poor" often have a way out of poverty. Or they did at one time. Certainly there are always exceptions as there is in everything thing.

Those "rich" are actually influenced by the majority in ways you can't even fathom. Look at how many CEOs lose their jobs every year. Just yesterday the CEO of NRG stepped down amidst a 60% stock loss in six years. Who buys those stocks? The majority? All of the politicians are elected by us. They owe their jobs to us, the majority. Not the "minority".
As I stated before the only reason those large corporations dropped the sales of the flag was it was make good business sense do it and those item just did not sell well anyway. If a large group of minorities got up tomorrow and told Walmart they were going to boycott them because sold Pepsi because Pepsi's can is Red, white and blue. What do you think Walmart would do? Do you think they would stop selling Pepsi products? Of coarse not, it makes Walmart too much money. Their Marketing department would come up with something just like they did with the flag and people would lap it up like a kitten laps up milk.

/cheers

 

[telle]

On the surface, the principles of majority rule and the protection of individual and minority rights would seem to contradictory. In fact, however, these principles are twin pillars holding up the very foundation of what we mean by democratic government.

Majority rule is a means for organizing government and deciding public issues; it is not another road to oppression. Just as no self-appointed group has the right to oppress others, so no majority, even in a democracy, should take away the basic rights and freedoms of a minority group or individual.

Minorities (whether as a result of ethnic background, religious belief, geographic location, income level, or simply as the losers in elections or political debate) enjoy guaranteed basic human rights that no government, and no majority, elected or not, should remove. Minorities need to trust that the government will protect their rights and self-identity. Once this is accomplished, such groups can participate in, and contribute to their country's democratic institutions.

Among the basic human rights that any democratic government must protect are freedom of speech and expression; freedom of religion and belief; due process and equal protection under the law; and freedom to organize, speak out, dissent, and participate fully in the public life of their society. Democracies understand that protecting the rights of minorities to uphold cultural identity, social practices, individual consciences, and religious activities is one of their primary tasks.

Acceptance of ethnic and cultural groups that seem strange if not alien to the majority can represent one of the greatest challenges that any democratic government can face. But democracies recognize that diversity can be an enormous asset. They treat these differences in identity, culture, and values as a challenge that can strengthen and enrich them, not as a threat.

There can be no single answer to how minority-group differences in views and values are resolved; only the sure knowledge that through the democratic process of tolerance, debate, and willingness to compromise can free societies reach agreements that embrace the twin pillars of majority rule and minority rights.

 

[Allybeboba]

Yes, but the "minority" is now telling the majority of Americans what is supposed to "like" and "not like" now. As in the case of the Flag. It was obvious that only a minority( less than 50%) of the majority of Americans had disdain for the flag. But that turned into a majority( over 50%) when the a minority(~12%) of Americans were asked the same question.
Same goes with the song "Dixie". I actually sang that song in elementary school practically every day and thought nothing of it. Along with with the America, This Land is Our Land, Deep in the Heart of Texas,Texas Our Texas, Yellow Rose of Texas(sanitized version(little did I know the story behind Yellow Rose)),Oh Susanna! and so on. Elementary children probably don't even sing half of those songs any more because people will get their feelings hurt.
Here is a perfect example. When Houston got it's pro Soccer club it was named the "1836" ( the year Texas won it's Independence from Mexico). It was quickly changed to the "Dynamo" because some Latinos were offended.
Goodbye 1836, hello Houston Dynamo - Houston Chronicle
What is next? We can't be proud to display the American Flag because people will be offended.
I beg you all to watch Idiocracy if you have not seen it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy


/cheers

 

[l30t53dd6p]

This article is hillarious. "Muslim Free Gun shop" says enough though about what is wrong with America. But hey, just export more Arms to muslim countries ($.$) and selling Arms in your own country causes fear and people hang up signs like muslim free zone in a gun store...

Whahaha. Such a messed up people (not all obviously) and country.

Live in fear people, live in fear!