Fanatic's Guide to Dagger Rogues

Fanatic

Fanatic

Legend
Introduction

Since there are alot of people who do not fully understand the viability and play style of a dagger spec rogue, hopefully I can shed some light on this under played yet very fun/entertaining setup. I will try to keep this updated with as much new information as possible because there are many variation's out there that I'm sure to have overlooked.



Why are dagger rogue's viable?

Short answer, Burst damage on an EFC. A dagger rogue's niche in a WSG is a support finisher, while we are capable of 1v1's and mid farming you will find yourself a better asset to a team by staying on an EFC and timing your opener accordingly. Your timing can be the difference between a swift return or a reset.



This spec easy to play but hard to master and there are few rogue's out there that can pull it off successfully.



Professions

A dagger rogue's professions are set in stone with no variation's that are feasible.



Skinning

Skinning gives you 9 critical strike rating which translate's to 3.03% crit. With this setup relying highly on your critical hits there is no other profession that produces a better result.



Herbalism

Herbalism provides a small heal, but the reason why it is so valuable to a dagger rogue is the 55 haste rating which increases energy regeneration. Dagger rogue's have a huge energy management learning curve because of Backstab's cost of 60 energy over Sinister Strike's 45, making this profession the perfect profession for a dagger rogue. Be sure to use this cooldown according to the situation, Use it right before you open up on an EFC for maximum burst or when you need the extra energy to keep a healer locked down but also use it as a heal to stay alive when taking heavy damage. Excellent profession.



The proper utilization of Lifeblood is what makes an average rogue a phenomenal one.



Gear

Before going further into this section I would like to first explain my reasoning for some of the choices I've made. I play a dagger rogue with a emphasis on critical strike, alot of people think the reason dagger rogue's are not as viable as a Shadowfang rogue is the lack of white hit damage. With a higher critical strike chance and the faster weapon speeds that dagger's provide it makes up for the lower top end. Simply put, If your white hits are critting twice as often and the utilization of backstab a dagger rogue can perform just as well if not better then a Shadowfang rogue in certain situations.



Here's my take on a BIS dagger setup. Keep in mind I will not post "poor man" variation's, the gear provides vary balanced stats and will not function as well with things that may be substituted.



Head - [Stained Shadowcraft Cap]

Neck - [Scout's Medallion] - [Sentinel's Medallion]

Shoulder - [Stained Shadowcraft Spaulders]

Back - [Tumultuous Cloak of the Bandit]

Chest - [Azure Scale Vest]

Wrist - [Black Wolf Bracers]

Gloves - [Foreman's Gloves] / [Wild Rider's Gloves]

Belt - [Vigorous Belt of the Bandit]

Legs - [Smelting Pants]

Feet - [Feet of the Lynx] / [Cobrahn's Boots]

Ring 1 - [Ello's Band]

Ring 2 - [Dread Pirate Ring] / [Signet of Argas]

Main Hand - [Impish Blade] / [Balanced Heartseeker]

Off Hand - [Balanced Heartseeker]

Ranged - [Sludge-Caked Throwing Knives]

Trinket 1 - [Arena Grand Master]

Trinket 2 - [Arena Grand Master] / [Inherited Insignia of the Alliance] - [Inherited Insignia of the Horde]



I have listed the few gear swap's divided by a "/" the setup could use to maximize critical strike rating. Be sure to keep your stats balanced when playing around with gear sets.



Here's my rogue - Fanatic @ Elune - Game - World of Warcraft



Enchants

The enchant's are the same as a Sword based Subtlety rogue, nothing special here.



Chest - [Scroll of Enchant Chest - Greater Stats]

Wrist - [Scroll of Enchant Bracer - Superior Stamina]

Back - [Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Stealth]

Gloves - [Scroll of Enchant Gloves - Superior Agility]

Legs - [Medium Armor Kit]

Feet - [Scroll of Enchant Boots - Minor Speed] / [Scroll of Enchant Boots - Greater Agility]

Main Hand - [Scroll of Enchant Weapon - Agility]

Off Hand - [Scroll of Enchant Weapon -Agility]



Race's

There are plenty of racial's that can be useful in certain situations and I can explain each one of them in detail but I want to keep the guide short and sweet so I'll just give you the ranking from most beneficial to least.



Alliance :Alliance:

Human > Gnome > Worgen > Night Elf > Dwarf



Horde :Horde:

Blood Elf > Troll > Undead > Orc > Goblin



Talents

There is a common misconception that the only reason to roll a dagger rogue is because of Waylay and time on target, while that is correct it's not the soul reason dagger rogue's can preform well. As a matter of fact I don't spec into waylay because my play style merit's highest damage output possible then a possible snare, so choose the spec that comfort's your play style and here is a listing of the best possible spec's for this setup.



For more burst use;

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I like this spec because of how quickly it generates combo points. It pairs perfect with maintaining a high critical strike build because a 5 point Eviscerate crit after the initial Ambush crit can almost be too much for any healer to handle.



For more time on target use;

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This spec is generally used when you have no snare on the EFC. My rule of thumb is to kill the target as quickly as possible so the waylay proc is almost never needed.



Just to squash any debate about this spec;

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

While the 10% extra damage is nice, the utility of gaining an extra combo point after an ambush is invaluable, and to me the most viable spec to play as a support dagger rogue would be my first listing.



When to use Sinister Strike

Sinister Strike is still a tool to a dagger rogue for maximizing combo point generation when Backstab is unavilable. While we have the luxury of using Backstab, it's not always suitable for every situation. The beauty of a dagger rogue is the utility of an extra burst when a player is running, there is a certain finesse to maintain enough energy to deal damage but also be able to focus kick/gouge accordingly.



Summary

I hope this clear's up any question's that may arise about dagger rogues and their place in WSG. Please feel free to comment or PM me anything that I could have missed and I'll be sure to correct thing's accordingly as quickly as possible.



Hope to see more dagger rogue's around in WSG because they really are a blast to play, Satisfaction Guaranteed.
 
Guys don't be dagger rogues only good time is Ed Druid fc crossing mid, another rogue popping evasion, and hunter. I suggest u use a macro to ss if sword backstab if dagger. Never be backstab all time
 
testin daggers out and ive gotta say i like them

should i use azure scale vest over heirloom?
 
Curley said:
Guys don't be dagger rogues only good time is Ed Druid fc crossing mid, another rogue popping evasion, and hunter. I suggest u use a macro to ss if sword backstab if dagger. Never be backstab all time
Click to expand...



That doesn't even make sense



imbao said:
testin daggers out and ive gotta say i like them

should i use azure scale vest over heirloom?
Click to expand...



I prefer Azure Scale Vest over the BOA because I like more crit over the extra stats the BOA gives, with the setup above hit rating is not an issue.
 
Fanatic said:
That doesn't even make sense







I prefer Azure Scale Vest over the BOA because I like more crit over the extra stats the BOA gives, with the setup above hit rating is not an issue.
Click to expand...



He means a macro to have sinister strike casted when you have a sword equipped and cast backstab when you have daggers equipped. But you said this is most viable when taking on an enemy FC. This spec wouldnt be used for premading but can be viable for pugs, depending on playstyle. But wouldnt orc also be a good option especially since this is more for the burst?



I can see how the extra kick is good but when you put it the way you did it seems like to make this set work its all about the burst which it is since your sinister strikes and auto attacks won't hit for nearly enough damage.
 
Dutchman said:
He means a macro to have sinister strike casted when you have a sword equipped and cast backstab when you have daggers equipped. But you said this is most viable when taking on an enemy FC. This spec wouldnt be used for premading but can be viable for pugs, depending on playstyle. But wouldnt orc also be a good option especially since this is more for the burst?



I can see how the extra kick is good but when you put it the way you did it seems like to make this set work its all about the burst which it is since your sinister strikes and auto attacks won't hit for nearly enough damage.
Click to expand...



Sinister strikes are used as a combo point generator when you can't backstab, and with high crit percentages SS's and whites can hurt. The reason for having daggers equipped all the time is for weapon speed. Lets say my white crits are for 60 and a SF white crit is 200, but my weapon swings for half the time thus producing 2x60's for 1 of SF's 200's. Sure it's only 120 (60x2) however I always have the utilization of backstab which makes up for the little bit lost by a lower top end. Especially with a higher crit build most of my attacks are going to be critical strikes making them even out with the non critical strikes of a sword rogue. Without a high crit percentage dagger's will not be as viable which is why I made this guide to explain the proper way to create a dagger rogue.



(numbers are completely metaphorical)
 
Fanatic said:
Sinister strikes are used as a combo point generator when you can't backstab, and with high crit percentages SS's and whites can hurt. The reason for having daggers equipped all the time is for weapon speed. Lets say my white crits are for 60 and a SF white crit is 200, but my weapon swings for half the time thus producing 2x60's for 1 of SF's 200's. Sure it's only 120 (60x2) however I always have the utilization of backstab which makes up for the little bit lost by a lower top end. Especially with a higher crit build most of my attacks are going to be critical strikes making them even out with the non critical strikes of a sword rogue. Without a high crit percentage dagger's will not be as viable which is why I made this guide to explain the proper way to create a dagger rogue.



(numbers are completely metaphorical)
Click to expand...



Yeah i completely understand what your saying, btw im not hating at all. Dagger rogues are cool, they may not be AS viable but i know they definitely are. I used to play one from vanilla through BC :p
 
i think gnome should be moved up for alliance race. dagger expertise is on par with human's sword/mace racial for crucial gouges and escape artist is way underated.
 
danceparty said:
i think gnome should be moved up for alliance race. dagger expertise is on par with human's sword/mace racial for crucial gouges and escape artist is way underated.
Click to expand...



After giving it some thought I did move Gnome up, the reason I had it behind Worgen was the passive crit chance and the clutch sprint if needed. But the Gnome's expertise open's up the glove slot for Wild Rider Gloves instead of having to wear Foreman's which outweight's the Worgen passive crit. I've always been a fan of Gnome's and I too think that escape artist is underrated.
 
Note: You are not supposed to fight other rogues with this setup. It's a sort of nuke class that's best for fast kills (EFC).
 
Mochabad said:
In every case, Daggers are terrible. Shows how retarded the creator of this thread is since it is an absolutely terrible idea. Any dagger rogue will get outplayed by any swords rogue... In every single way.



Lol@ Azure Scale..... what an idiot.
Click to expand...



Listen to yourself bro, Please understand the nature of the spec before you bring your meaningless comments in my thread. If it's bad then don't follow it and be a sellout curley tink rogue that can't think for yourself. However I do love the /spit's and tearing you up so meh keep being a hater, you're tear's polish my dagger's.



As far as being "outplayed" by a sword rogue explain why I'm wrong? all you can say is "it's bad it's bad", where's your proof? care to explain? I'd LOVE to hear your explanations.
 
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