F2P Rankings: Achievements, HKs, and more!

[lofi]

What if I make a deal with you? I will personally go through each of the top 100 people and I will PM you a list of the top people in order and the number of achievements they have then you put it in that cool and neat format you use? I know exactly which achievements to look for and since I made a DK (and I even made a master list of the possible achievements ) I know which achievements are possible and which ones make them a P2P. If they have 1 P2P achievement on their armory they will be off the list however for people who linked they could do character only achievements which would make the achievements lower but not by much more then 300 probably.

I would do this ONLY because I want it personally but I don't want to make my own thread since it is your idea but I could help you maintain the achievement version with updates every either 2 weeks or month

I can put together a pure F2P list, it's not such a big deal, and I'd hate for you to spend all that time. Which achieves should I use to weed out non pure-F2P? Level 60.. and any others? Also which achieves can I use to check if character is only showing character achieves? What's the best estimate on the missing achievements points? I could work some of this out myself.. but I'm tired and probably get some better suggestions here.

 

[CripzBlood]

Can u make that AFK Penalty = 3 * Estimated AFKs thing in WSG ranking too?

And Lil look at this situation:

i have my F2Pacc linked with P2P acc, i unlinked it but stayed with my some of my p2p mounts. which would help me in mounts achiev.
Would u remove that person from the list?

 

[lofi]

Can u make that AFK Penalty = 3 * Estimated AFKs thing in WSG ranking too?

And Lil look at this situation:

i have my F2Pacc linked with P2P acc, i unlinked it but stayed with my some of my p2p mounts. which would help me in mounts achiev.
Would u remove that person from the list?

I don't plan on changing the WSG rankings, it's just a cumulative effort of capping/returning flags.

The mounts achievement is not such a big deal, esp. considering you only have 30. I'm not sure why you would unlink an F2P account (and surprised you were even able to get it done). Did you keep achievements from P2P or only the mounts? Strangely there is still a per-character companions statistic in armory even though companions are account-wide.

 

[Lil]

I can put together a pure F2P list, it's not such a big deal, and I'd hate for you to spend all that time. Which achieves should I use to weed out non pure-F2P? Level 60.. and any others?

No profs over 100
No scenarios at all
No bc+ dungeons completed
No bc+cata+mop raids completed
100 pets being collected being the max/ only pet achievements possible
No arena/rbg achievements at all
no MoP exploration or deepholm exploring
No superior- mystically epic achievements
no world event titles other then noble/hallowed
a FoS list (I believe there is only 9 possible even with the gf'd dk bug and alot of linked or p2p people have atleast one non f2p fos)

These are all possibilities but not sure how your thing works so if you just need to type in one achievement i htink the profs/pets/fos would be the easiest and best ones to weed out the P2P

Also which achieves can I use to check if character is only showing character achieves?

Not sure what you mean but if you just mean how do you tell when linked people are showing character only achieves it would have none of the account wide achievements show up. Not sure if you can tell when people are showing only character only achievements

What's the best estimate on the missing achievements points? I could work some of this out myself.. but I'm tired and probably get some better suggestions here.

not sure if this was linked to the precious question or not but if it is I would say just do it yourself since you are a linked f2p and see how many achievements you lose that are meta achievements. Only ones I can think of are the meta ones like the hks or stuff like that.


[MENTION=14667]Cripz[/MENTION] after a quick look at your toons in your sig none have any P2P achievements and I couldn't find any P2P mounts so I would consider it a F2P. I guess that would be up to lofi cause you can have 49 f2p mounts then 1 p2p mount and get the 50 mount acheieve cause of that or you could have 51 f2p mounts and 1 p2p mount which would make no difference in achieves.

 

[CripzBlood]

I don't plan on changing the WSG rankings, it's just a cumulative effort of capping/returning flags.

The mounts achievement is not such a big deal, esp. considering you only have 30. I'm not sure why you would unlink an F2P account (and surprised you were even able to get it done). Did you keep achievements from P2P or only the mounts? Strangely there is still a per-character companions statistic in armory even though companions are account-wide.

I wasnt talking about my acc

Sorry, for the time wasted searching throw my Twinks, should have said it be4.

 

[rsq]

snip

I understand why you want to have an updated PvE rankings. But to be honest, I'm not sure it's entirely fair. I really wish that I could just show achievements earned by a single character (including cumulative-style achievements) but we can't. We simply can't. And people like myself, whose accounts were already linked with a p2p before achievement sharing was even an idea, get screwed over with any sort of new F2P PvE ranking. I would be knocked out for something that's out of my control and it would make it seem as if my work getting achievements (the vast majority of which I got on a single f2p character) were for naught. I don't see that as being the most fair for all participants and I can't imagine a good system to use in order to reorganize the PvE rankings.

 

[Lil]

snip

Go to armory and link character only achievements.. Wouldn't be knocked out at all. If lofi was up to it he could even have 2 separate lists. One with P2P linked character only achievements (this way everyone is on the same terms and no meta achievements are for anyone) and one with pure F2P. I don't see how it's fair for F2P not to have a list cause people who linked don't think it's fair? I may have used the DK bug and I may have used the wrath raid bug but so can/could every other trial out there in the world while not every trial can simply link their account and get level 90 achievements and what- not.


I don't think it would be that tough for lofi to make a list or maybe even two (I think linked displaying character only achievements would be semi tough) This is a F2P list and should include F2P only achievements. A list containing F2P toons with P2P achievements is stupid. However I get that you linked and it isn't fair for you but like I said it wouldn't be really tough to click a simple button displaying character only achievements then making a top 25 linked list or something like that.. This would take more work for lofi but it's either that or nothing basically cause P2P linked and F2P pure characters shouldn't be in the same category and Character only achieves and F2P pure shouldn't either.


Edit: I just read that and it comes off alil strong but I wasn't trying to be. I get what you mean and I realize it isn't fair for people like you and lofi but if everyone who linked that wants to be on the list clicks on character only achievements then linked F2P can still have their own fair rankings.

 

[lofi]

Don't have too much time to respond. Salf, I hear your concerns, I too was linked prior to MoP, although I probably would've chosen to link anyways. Another interesting development is that "display character only achievements" does not appear to be working at this time, I turned it on Lofi last night and still it's showing account-wide achievements.

What I plan to do is add two PvE rankings, one that focuses on per-character statistics, and another that lists achievements for "pure F2P". While I understand not all F2Ps can participate in this second PvE ranking, it is something those unlinked F2Ps have been asking for since release of MoP, and it's not that difficult for me to add.

 

[Gartahwa]

I'm sure this formula will be up to much scrutiny, but it was the best I could come up with after hours of playing with the numbers. Please if you have some criticism offer a suggestion on how it could be improved. I think the end result is a diverse list of well-respected players on top, and will let you decide that for yourself.

i think everone owes you some gratitude for your work, lofi.

let me suggest some things (since you said data mining is easier for you):

1- discard statistical outliers. it should be a red flag to the formula that AFKale is #6 after the penalty has been applied, and 4 of the 5 people above him have inflated ratings, as well. you can't stop people from gaming the stats but you can filter out the obvious by doing something like removing scores which fall more than 3 standard deviations from the mean (i believe you said 44 HK's per bg). once you have a valid data set....

2 - you could try something like this. probably use a substitution on their formula (change TD to flags, etc) and use HK's as a tie-breaker in your list (maintaining a rating over a longer period of time). this could serve as a combined rating for WSG and Kill Rating so there is only one score instead of two. once you have the score...

3- list them by class. comparing a priest to a rogue for KBs doesnt really work....and you know that since you have made assumptions to try and compensate. remove all assumptions and just break them out separate.



just some suggestions from a fellow data person. again - everyone owes you some thanks for your efforts.

 

[Masara]

Pah, out of the top 10 for flags. Damn this rubbish internet access...

 

[rsq]

What I plan to do is add two PvE rankings, one that focuses on per-character statistics, and another that lists achievements for "pure F2P". While I understand not all F2Ps can participate in this second PvE ranking, it is something those unlinked F2Ps have been asking for since release of MoP, and it's not that difficult for me to add.

How do you plan on doing the per-character statistics? As in "display character only" or do you have another system?

And yeah, I understand why you would add an unlinked f2p ranking. I jumped the trigger a little bit last night with my response haha

 

[Lil]

How do you plan on doing the per-character statistics? As in "display character only" or do you have another system?

Some ideas for points towards:
- Amount of reputations above a certain level. (+1 for Friendly, +2 for Honored, +4 for Revered, +10 for Exalted). For more different factions you got Exalted with, that number rises. It should be an exponential curve.
- Amount of random kills you made, gold you looted, rare spawns you killed,...
- Maybe the amount of pets you have? Or can't this be tracked per character? Same goes for mounts, tabards,...
- Achievement points? As long as they aren't shared.
- Death/kill ratio or something?
- Amount of recipes?
- Bankslots
- Bandages/pots/elixers/... consumed
- Greed/Need rolls?
- Professions skills
- Daily quests completed
- Items produced for a profession

And the most important one: Total times playing world's smallest violin

Could use cooking recipes
I like the need/greed rolls
Epic items required?
Total dmg/healing done/received
Critters/creatures killed
total deaths
quests completed (I think you can track this via stats page without looking at achievements)
quests abandoned
total dungeons entered
amount entered each dungeon possibly?
fish caught/ +other things caught (as a fishing farmer I'd like to see this also lol)
# of fps taken
# of hearths
FoS? (there is only 9 available I believe without any TCG codes so wouldn't be tough to track)
vanity pets can be tracked via stats page I believe

Just some other things like mialo that I thought of

I think some of these maybe what he puts into the stats ranking just as like an overview of the persons history which would be kinda cool. Also wanna say sry if my msg sounded mean cause didn't want it to be was just thinking of a way that linked and pure f2p could each have a listing but if display character only achievements don't work for some reason not sure what linked pplz could do..

 

[rsq]

I think some of these maybe what he puts into the stats ranking just as like an overview of the persons history which would be kinda cool. Also wanna say sry if my msg sounded mean cause didn't want it to be was just thinking of a way that linked and pure f2p could each have a listing but if display character only achievements don't work for some reason not sure what linked pplz could do..

That would be kind of cool! We'd need to find some sort of way to make it an even representation of the entire breadth of PvE available to F2P.. It would be awesome to figure out.

And no worries — My response was quickly written as well, no hurt feelings over here and hopefully none for you either!

 

[lofi]

Fixed bug with AFK penalty and adjusted the formula to only count 2 deaths per AFK. I added in the HK/D and KB/HK stats.

Kale, I think it's a good metric to get a wide range of skilled players, while admittedly a bit healer-heavy. I think the issue is really with the naming and it shouldn't be called Kill Rankings anymore. The WSG+AB KBs as you suggest would probably have even more hunters than the former kill rankings!

 

[Oneshot20]

Fixed bug with AFK penalty and adjusted the formula to only count 2 deaths per AFK. I added in the HK/D and KB/HK stats.

Kale, I think it's a good metric to get a wide range of skilled players, while admittedly a bit healer-heavy. I think the issue is really with the naming and it shouldn't be called Kill Rankings anymore. The WSG+AB KBs as you suggest would probably have even more hunters than the former kill rankings!

Hey Lofi why wasnt I in the Kill rankings i have 7,730 Killing blows, [WSG=5,882, AB=1,848, 40k Honorable Kills] i get 20-30 average WSG, and i never AFK , i have left 3 or 2 bgs in my whole wow life. Mainly because horde had a dull team of 24{cata] And now in mop because i had to go

 

[Lil]

Hey Lofi why wasnt I in the Kill rankings i have 7,730 Killing blows, [WSG=5,882, AB=1,848, 40k Honorable Kills] i get 20-30 average WSG, and i never AFK , i have left 3 or 2 bgs in my whole wow life. Mainly because horde had a dull team of 24{cata] And now in mop because i had to go

Maybe cause the same reason one of the top killers in the bracket and most active wasn't even in the top 100 (me). This list is flooded with cata people and premading people. Like kale said cata had 10-20 more hks per bg so anyone who hasn't been very active in MoP will have a much higher ratio. The formula is bugged atm and the fact that 2 ppl in the top 5 (kale is a killer and may deserve to be in the top but spetz doesnt) are heavy afk'ers just shows that. It went from 22/25 hunts to a list dominated with cata premaders. 3/5 of the top killers in this bracket simply don't belong to AP and if see the list you read 60 people out of 100 on AP.

[MENTION=1027]lofi[/MENTION] I realize it maybe tough to find a good kill ranking formula but you can't base it on hks cause people who quit in cata will top it easily and people who premade alot will also due to the low hks in premades. I'm just pointing out the faults but I honestly don't know how to fix it or make it any better.

 

[Goesid]

Souns complicated Lich but maybe 2 seperate lists for caps and returns.

 

[lofi]

Yes, hunters, especially Cat hunters, killed things, and lots of them. Rogues return flags. Druids cap them. Now, obviously anyone can do anything with any class, but some are more suited than others.

Healers and people with only a handful of kills topping the kill charts seems ridiculous to me. Two of them are multiboxers too. Four of them would be if you included the other multiboxers that didn't choose a spec when Pandas reset specs in the armory for people that didn't log in. Kills do not equal skills. Kills are just kills. If it's a kill list, base it on kills. Feel free to add all the other stats too. I think they're interesting, but when multiboxers and healers are topping the kill charts, you know something is wrong.

Like I said, because Cat had so many more HKs per game than Panda, the average is not an accurate way of measuring AFKs. I don't deny that I have more games left than anyone else, everyone knows that, I've probably left a lot more games than that, I leave a lot in the first few minutes. The multiboxing hunter, Genara, never left a game though and your estimated AFKs for them is 1.6k. The reason they have so many estimated AFKs is because they only played during Cat and they farmed every single game, as did I.

First of all, I have renamed the "Kill Rankings" to the "Adjusted K/D Rankings". Healers topping the kill charts is not right and that's why I've given the listing an appropriate name.

I'm not sure about the assumption that Cata had more HKs per game. Even so, more HKs/battle will not increase your Adjusted K/D Score.

Also as you point out, those that farm (such as the multiboxer) get slapped with the AFK Penalty, so this metric works to counteract farming as well as AFKing as a means of increasing your score on the rankings. I understand that the multiboxer rarely if ever AFKd, but I think the AFK Penalty is appropriate since they spent the majority of the games farming GY until time ran out.

Certainly Cata hunters had an advantage on scoring high Adj K/D score, but in MoP the advantage has shifted to Druids, Spriests and other healers. My feeling is that over time the effects should somewhat balance out, and I cannot come up with a "fairer" way to calculate this score. There is no perfect metric, and no way to measure skill absolutely, but I feel this new listing does highlight some of the best players in the bracket (yourself included). This is also the first ranking that does not depend direclty on how much time you put into the game, but how you spend that time, and gives players with as little as 2000 HKs in AB or WSG a chance to compete in the rankings.

 

[Lil]

There is no perfect metric, and no way to measure skill absolutely, but I feel this new listing does highlight some of the best players in the bracket (yourself included).

But.. But.. Lil doesn't premade all the time and lil doesnt afk (I do dc out maybe 1/15 bgs but that'll be fixed soon) and lil doesn't gy farm anymore I just don't like not being on the top of all these lists you make lol and when I saw I didn't even make the top 100 on your list I tried thinking of reasons it was bugged or messed up...

I shall become US #1 WSG rank again and shall overtake heeals for US #1 HK rank to make up for not being ranked at all in the K/D one >: )

 

[lofi]

But.. But.. Lil doesn't premade all the time and lil doesnt afk (I do dc out maybe 1/15 bgs but that'll be fixed soon) and lil doesn't gy farm anymore I just don't like not being on the top of all these lists you make lol and when I saw I didn't even make the top 100 on your list I tried thinking of reasons it was bugged or messed up...

I shall become US #1 WSG rank again and shall overtake heeals for US #1 HK rank to make up for not being ranked at all in the K/D one >: )

At least you're being honest! While I admit the new list is flawed in many ways, I also don't think you (or I) belong on it.

I do have some good news for you though, the Pure F2P Achiv ranking should be up soon... and you're #2 !

1. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/lich-king/Брусок/simple 4750+8
2. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/misha/Lìl/simple 4360+7
3. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/Felïx/simple 4125+5
4. Visatorul @ Thunderhorn - Community - World of Warcraft 4075+7