BIS fc and why
- Thread starter hucklberry
- Start date
Srs
Legend
I like where this is going, that is, not just comparing druid vs. warrior as damgage mitigators, but taking into account all the other changes that follow from that one decision. Choice of FC effects the whole comp, so when you are comparing the two, you are really not just comparing stat sheets of two specs, you are comparing all the permutations of comp and playstyle that that choice of FC causes.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
In regards to comparing strategy at what Cataclysm RBGS were (What I am most accustomed towards) versus Free to Play premades:
Numbers: How much damage or healing certain classes can produce.
and
Mechanics: What spells or abilities certain classes have available for themselves.
Now in regards to numbers, they are not so fundamentally dissimilar as to prevent any comparisons from being made. Certainly, in 5.4 hunters and rogues are capable of far more damage relative to health bar size (I.E., an ambush for 60% of a geared healer's health is unique to our bracket in this comparison). Therefore, using numbers from 5.2 allows for a more accurate comparison to be made.
In regards to mechanics, there is certainly an extremely large difference. However, I do not believe this difference prevents strategies from emerging similar to those of Cataclysm RBGs.
Melee Classes, in Cata, were almost non-existent in max level RBGS - with 2 exceptions. Rogues were able to be mobile and defensive enough by their own merit to keep up with the extremely heavy AoE DoT cleaves. Death Knights, also, were able to use their cooldowns to prevent damage taken while at the same time potentially guaranteeing a kill with death grip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to Free to Play: Rogues through stealth, evasion, and intelligent play should be fine in almost all scenarios in Premade team-fights. There may be some exceptions to where a boomkin and an ele shaman turn and unload their max damage spells into them, but otherwise they should be able to deal damage and kick casts while still being in safe range of their healers.
Arms warriors, however, present a meta-shift. There are no pulls, at least for which Free to Plays can use. This presents a problem, since in a competitive game there won't be any enemies to use as an "intervene" to your healers. By charging in, you give the enemy team an extremely easy target to swap to. In regards to the statements regarding Arms being easy to kill, I agree with this.
So then for a team that wants to utilize the extremely powerful ADDITIVE mortal strike + Battle Fatigue, what should they do? Completely forgo this buff that could almost single-handedly win teamfights for them? I think the answer is in the playstyle of the group to accommodate their warrior.
When playing with a warrior, groups should push into the enemy team, instead of using a ranged-vs-ranged "skirmish" kind of mentality. By narrowing the gap between your team and the enemy team, you allow for your spells to be cast on the enemy healers (if need be), while allowing your healers to be within range to comfortably heal anyone. The warrior WILL be a focus target by nature of being a warrior, so healers should be aware of that (Extremely similar to how healers were extra attentive to the health of their Unholy Death Knights in Cataclysm RBGS). By removing much of the distance between teams, Warriors can prosper without becoming a burden while constantly being dead. Additionally, CC classes like warlocks and mages will have many more options as targets to lock down.
Just some thoughts in regards to shifting the meta.
Tl;Dr -
1. There are similarities between max level Cata RBGs and F2P premades
2. Teams using Arms warriors should push up as far as possible against the enemy team, to allow healers more lee-way to heal the warrior, and to give him more room to kite back if he is being focused too intensely.
Numbers: How much damage or healing certain classes can produce.
and
Mechanics: What spells or abilities certain classes have available for themselves.
Now in regards to numbers, they are not so fundamentally dissimilar as to prevent any comparisons from being made. Certainly, in 5.4 hunters and rogues are capable of far more damage relative to health bar size (I.E., an ambush for 60% of a geared healer's health is unique to our bracket in this comparison). Therefore, using numbers from 5.2 allows for a more accurate comparison to be made.
In regards to mechanics, there is certainly an extremely large difference. However, I do not believe this difference prevents strategies from emerging similar to those of Cataclysm RBGs.
Melee Classes, in Cata, were almost non-existent in max level RBGS - with 2 exceptions. Rogues were able to be mobile and defensive enough by their own merit to keep up with the extremely heavy AoE DoT cleaves. Death Knights, also, were able to use their cooldowns to prevent damage taken while at the same time potentially guaranteeing a kill with death grip.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to Free to Play: Rogues through stealth, evasion, and intelligent play should be fine in almost all scenarios in Premade team-fights. There may be some exceptions to where a boomkin and an ele shaman turn and unload their max damage spells into them, but otherwise they should be able to deal damage and kick casts while still being in safe range of their healers.
Arms warriors, however, present a meta-shift. There are no pulls, at least for which Free to Plays can use. This presents a problem, since in a competitive game there won't be any enemies to use as an "intervene" to your healers. By charging in, you give the enemy team an extremely easy target to swap to. In regards to the statements regarding Arms being easy to kill, I agree with this.
So then for a team that wants to utilize the extremely powerful ADDITIVE mortal strike + Battle Fatigue, what should they do? Completely forgo this buff that could almost single-handedly win teamfights for them? I think the answer is in the playstyle of the group to accommodate their warrior.
When playing with a warrior, groups should push into the enemy team, instead of using a ranged-vs-ranged "skirmish" kind of mentality. By narrowing the gap between your team and the enemy team, you allow for your spells to be cast on the enemy healers (if need be), while allowing your healers to be within range to comfortably heal anyone. The warrior WILL be a focus target by nature of being a warrior, so healers should be aware of that (Extremely similar to how healers were extra attentive to the health of their Unholy Death Knights in Cataclysm RBGS). By removing much of the distance between teams, Warriors can prosper without becoming a burden while constantly being dead. Additionally, CC classes like warlocks and mages will have many more options as targets to lock down.
Just some thoughts in regards to shifting the meta.
Tl;Dr -
1. There are similarities between max level Cata RBGs and F2P premades
2. Teams using Arms warriors should push up as far as possible against the enemy team, to allow healers more lee-way to heal the warrior, and to give him more room to kite back if he is being focused too intensely.
Imnotabelf
Legend
So for alliance, which race best supports protection warrior FC'ing?
Zatox
OG
Bop
Remember the Treeline
Dwarf for increase mitigation
Draenai for a small Heal over time and a hit chance increase.
Gnome for an extra snare trinket.
Human for the double stamina trinkets.
Night Elf for the shadowmeld.
Worgen for the Sprint.
I think most players would say Dwarf is the best, since stoneskin gives reduced damage taken and removes poisons (Serpent Sting and Rogue poisons).
Draenai for a small Heal over time and a hit chance increase.
Gnome for an extra snare trinket.
Human for the double stamina trinkets.
Night Elf for the shadowmeld.
Worgen for the Sprint.
I think most players would say Dwarf is the best, since stoneskin gives reduced damage taken and removes poisons (Serpent Sting and Rogue poisons).
Shft
Legend
except that in WoD those are changing
Srs
Legend
ETA on f2pocalypse 2.0?
Shft
Legend
every other week
Activate
Legend
I like the direction of this thread.
The best premade v premade strats will always apply to premade v pug. You'd probably consider shortcuts v pugs to save time. The point is, the strength of the best strats are constant if they are in fact the best. Albino was correct to illustrate where a guardian would really shine in comparison to prot warrior. That being the extra flexibility guardian brings to the table when facing a superior team. When you consider the f2p pugmade v 24 pugmade bg perspective, it's easy to see where Albino arrived at his conclusions. His first few posts about it were clear enough.
The best premade v premade strats will always apply to premade v pug. You'd probably consider shortcuts v pugs to save time. The point is, the strength of the best strats are constant if they are in fact the best. Albino was correct to illustrate where a guardian would really shine in comparison to prot warrior. That being the extra flexibility guardian brings to the table when facing a superior team. When you consider the f2p pugmade v 24 pugmade bg perspective, it's easy to see where Albino arrived at his conclusions. His first few posts about it were clear enough.
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Bisonpower
Legend
http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f43/f2p-rankings-achievements-hks-more-36832/#post499807
Look at all those caps by the prot warriors........ oh wait wut? nvm...
prots might have been the better choice for FC in previous patches... or maybe they are now. But then I don't see many prots FC'ing.
at the end of the day the no.1 FC BiS is that 1krogue/lock/mage etc who picks up the flag.... or is it that prot pally that outruns everyone into the enemy?
like the old adage goes... "it isn't the size of the dog but the fight in it..." but then again with 5.4 (enchants scrolls dps buff, heal/resiliance nerf) its harder to put up that fight.
Awareness is the key.
Look at all those caps by the prot warriors........ oh wait wut? nvm...
prots might have been the better choice for FC in previous patches... or maybe they are now. But then I don't see many prots FC'ing.
at the end of the day the no.1 FC BiS is that 1krogue/lock/mage etc who picks up the flag.... or is it that prot pally that outruns everyone into the enemy?
like the old adage goes... "it isn't the size of the dog but the fight in it..." but then again with 5.4 (enchants scrolls dps buff, heal/resiliance nerf) its harder to put up that fight.
Awareness is the key.
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Bestasky
Legend
I disagree........fuck the fight in the dog when the mut gets 2 shotted.......so with every new patch of ''upcoming bullshit on new FOTM'' it varies what class is the most viable for FC-ing ?? i think not.......most of the FC-ers on the F2P LIST are druids cause healing and mobility is still overfucked and unbalanced in f2p bracket.....so you have many ppl who decide to rather roll a druid and have it easy on FC-ing and more interesting than a boring prot warrior who was always the best choice in a ''take less dmg'' sence.............why then many ppl don't roll them? (again refering to f2p list where druids take first place)-BECAUSE ppl cba to roll FC-ers seing it's not to much fun too roll one or decide to go with prot warrior........ especially when you have to play a boring 2 ability tank class who always has to FC.......any of you know what it's like ???.......so YES! reggardless of the list warriros are the best choice for FC-ing....An example Poledancer is the most skilled Druid EFC-er in this bracket...that doesn't make his class the best choice for it !!!
I have done my fair share of FC-ing and EFC-ing ( Alphasky + Bestasky's stats combined ) to notice what class is the best for FC-ing - and it all comes down to prot warrior....
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Spiriel
Legend
You have a shield? Pic or it never happend..
OT: Who the fuck votes for Holypaladins?