Best 2h proved: BAR > GS

[Grabco]

Most pallies and warriors want to know what the best 2H weapon is for heavy hitting purposes. For a long time I thought Bloodied Arcanite Reaper was the same as Glacial stone in that Glacial stone provides more burst and higher rated dps while BAR has better stats and crit. Recently I have been doing extensive testing with Recount taking sample sizes of 100 auto attack hits on my 19 twink paladin trying different weapon and gear combos (eg str biased, crit biased). While I was doing my testing I noticed something very interesting about BAR and GS.



BAR is a 3.8 speed weapon with 60-91 damage 6str 100 stam and 6crit rating

Glacial is a 3.6 speed weapon with 60-91 damage and a frost proc for 75 (which can crit for 112-113)



As a general rule in WoW slower weapons have a higher damage range and hit harder than faster weapons. If we look at BAR and GS, BAR is slower but has the same highend damage of 91, this does not make sense.



I equipped BAR and looked at the weapon damage range on my character sheet, then I equipped GS and noticed that the damage range went down SIGNIFICANTLY. Thinking this could be due to the 6str difference I drank a +8str elixer and the weapon damage range on my character sheet was still not as high as it was with BAR. My conclusion is that there is a mistake on one of these weapons in terms of damage, maybe GS factors in the frost proc (which only occurs approx 6/100 hits or 1ppm with a 3.6speed weapon). Maybe there is a mistake on BAR and it doesn't show the higher damage range?

Due to this apparent damage discrepancy, the difference in stats,crit rating, and the fact that the frost proc is only 1ppm. BAR is always better than GS. The only way GS will ever win is if you want to roll the dice and hope for that frost proc crit on GS which would technically be burstier than BAR.

 

[Rayu]

And you are sure there wasn't an enchant on that BAR?

 

[Grabco]

fiery on both actually

 

[Rayu]

BAR appears to give 91 high end damage on WoWhead/in-game, but Chardev shows it is actually 92. Probably a tooltip error in rounding up or down, but it matters significantly. Combined with the 6 Strength on BAR you get a DPS difference of roughly 6-7.



EDIT: As proof for BAR having a high end damage I took the weapon speed and DPS from the in-game tooltip:



20.0 * 3.80 = 76.0 average damage.

Low end damage is 60:

(60 + high end damage)/2 = 76.0

High end damage is:

152.0 - 60 = 92

 

[Grabco]

Try equipping both of them and see what the weapon damage says on you character sheet. It's a big difference that is not attributable to the 6str

 

[Rayu]

Try equipping both of them and see what the weapon damage says on you character sheet. It's a big difference that is not attributable to the 6str

The in-game tooltip is incorrect as I said.

 

[elocon]

BAR

3.8*20=76

91-60=31

76∓(31/2)=91.5 ; 60,5 (rounded down and you get the min and max bar(19) dmg.



GS

3.6*21=75,6

91-60=31

75,6∓(31/2)=91,1 ; 60,1 (round down and you get GS min max)

That make total sence that they got same max dmg since GS got 1 more dps btw.



Its ofc soo that you get more dmg/(swing*ap) with a slower swing. EDIT: dmg/(swing*ap) is dmg per swing per ap, btw.

Going to try take a example, lets say you got 280 ap (20dps from ap):

BAR

3.8*(20+20)=152

91-60=31

152∓(31/2)=167.5 ; 136,5 (rounded down and you get the min and max bar(19) dmg with 280ap.)



GS

3.6*(21+20)=147,6

91-60=31

147,6∓(31/2)=163,1 ; 132,1 (rounded down and you get the min and max GS dmg with 280ap.)

 

[Grabco]

The in-game tooltip is incorrect as I said.

Don't look at the weapon itself look at the weapon damage under the melee tab, its the same place spellpower is located except it's under the melee tab on the character sheet, this is the weapon damage after your stats like str etc are factored in. the tool-tip on the weapon may be off as well but I am looking at the damage after stats and AP are factored in, this is where the BIG discrepancy is.

 

[Rayu]

Elocon nicely shows that in fact the 1 DPS tooltip error and 6 strength combined give you those big differences.

 

[Grabco]

Elocon nicely shows that in fact the 1 DPS tooltip error and 6 strength combined give you those big differences.

I see the nice math above, once I get home from work I will give you definative in-game numbers. I also tried to control for the 6 str difference, keeping all gear unchanged by drinking a +8 str elixer with the glacial stone equipped and the GS damage was still lower than BAR.

 

[elocon]

I did it as a break of writing on a essay about improper integral

Offtopic: Anyone know the antiderivative to the f(x)=a^(-x^2) when the variable "a" is a "real number" (like for example 5)? EDIT: Made a thread about it instead: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/tavern/11656-antiderivative-f-x.html#post160454

 

[Rivfader]

Most pallies and warriors want to know what the best 2H weapon is for heavy hitting purposes. For a long time I thought Bloodied Arcanite Reaper was the same as Glacial stone in that Glacial stone provides more burst and higher rated dps while BAR has better stats and crit. Recently I have been doing extensive testing with Recount taking sample sizes of 100 auto attack hits on my 19 twink paladin trying different weapon and gear combos (eg str biased, crit biased). While I was doing my testing I noticed something very interesting about BAR and GS.



BAR is a 3.8 speed weapon with 60-91 damage 6str 100 stam and 6crit rating

Glacial is a 3.6 speed weapon with 60-91 damage and a frost proc for 75 (which can crit for 112-113)



As a general rule in WoW slower weapons have a higher damage range and hit harder than faster weapons. If we look at BAR and GS, BAR is slower but has the same highend damage of 91, this does not make sense.



I equipped BAR and looked at the weapon damage range on my character sheet, then I equipped GS and noticed that the damage range went down SIGNIFICANTLY. Thinking this could be due to the 6str difference I drank a +8str elixer and the weapon damage range on my character sheet was still not as high as it was with BAR. My conclusion is that there is a mistake on one of these weapons in terms of damage, maybe GS factors in the frost proc (which only occurs approx 6/100 hits or 1ppm with a 3.6speed weapon). Maybe there is a mistake on BAR and it doesn't show the higher damage range?

Due to this apparent damage discrepancy, the difference in stats,crit rating, and the fact that the frost proc is only 1ppm. BAR is always better than GS. The only way GS will ever win is if you want to roll the dice and hope for that frost proc crit on GS which would technically be burstier than BAR.

I take it you have no idea how AP scales with weapon speed

 

[Grabco]

I take it you have no idea how AP scales with weapon speed

I guess I don't, I'll have to look that up, I've never noticed my attack power change when I equip a slower or faster weapon. what am I missing?

 

[Duckhunt]

I guess I don't, I'll have to look that up, I've never noticed my attack power change when I equip a slower or faster weapon. what am I missing?

Here is a good example of weapon speed and how well it can scale with AP.

I took 4 different pictures of my 10 twink and merged them into one photo. In the tooltip for the Sunstrider Axe it says it does 5-9 damage while the Talonstrike says it does 13-26 damage. However, when you compare the actual damage each of them do on the right you will notice that the Sunstrider Axe does more minimum damage and a little less max damage than the Talonstrike and it isn't even enchanted with +15 agility.

 

[Crilicilyn]

old news is old news? If you've ever done weapon testing at 39's you'll have noticed this it hasn't changed since. Slower weapons scale better with AP. Blizz has some whole complicated formula based on time, swings and dmg.

 

[Falkor]

to the OP:

procs arent factored into weapon dps on the character screen. seems like other posters have already nailed the difference you noted though.

for a pally the slowest weapon between two that are almost equal in damage will be the winner based off SoR damage. the proc could tip dps in GS favor, but thats all rng.

also 100 hits is a bit small of a sample size. it sounds large...but get more than that imo; especially to test proc of GS over a large amount of time. go to theramore (if alliance) and start attacking the level one dummy, then go afk for like 30mins. get a nice big ole sample. and have proc watch or recount to see # of GS procs and damage they do.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Have you factored armor into your calculations? All of BAR's damage is mitigated by armor, however i dont believe GS's proc is hindered by armor.

 

[Dreaax]

We've had familiar threads about this before. Try use the search function, and see what you'll get.

 

[Rayu]

Have you factored armor into your calculations? All of BAR's damage is mitigated by armor, however i dont believe GS's proc is hindered by armor.

Armor isn't calculated into your DPS by the Character Info Pane.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Armor isn't calculated into your DPS by the Character Info Pane.

However this would still affect the difference between BAR and GS