80 vs. 85 (vs. 89?)

[Tzvetan]

Friends:

I'm fairly new to this bracket, but have been enjoying playing some games on my 80 mage the last little while. I've kept him at 80 primarily so I can get Herald of the Titans (but my groups always seem to fall apart at the last minute). Once I get the achievement, though, I'm debating whether to level him up. Again, I'm new to the bracket, so pardon my ignorance, but these are my thoughts:

Stay at 80: benefits of Spellfire set are more pronounced, plus scaled BC gear and the rep rings.

Level to 85: access to Cata gear, specifically Dragonwrath.

Level to 89: Is there much point? I know 87 unlocks some engi stuff, but I'm honestly not super interested in it.

Any advice? I think that, for me, it basically comes down to 80 vs. 85; is the staff worth it? I'd love to hear some thoughts from people who've played here for a while. Thanks!

 

[ohti]

from what i've heard 80 for more community if you can call it that

85 same as 80s but for cata shit

87>89 for bgs cause the way stats scale and you don't unlock anything particularly amazing inbetween 87-89

i'm in the midst of gearing out an 89 rn tho cause why not its not like 89s dont exist they're just more rarer

 

[jwl]

You should refer to one of the tens of other threads on here regarding this same topic. This website has copious amounts of information on it - Perouse the 80s forums and I can guarantee you'll find the answers you are seeking

 

[Kirise]

You should refer to one of the tens of other threads on here regarding this same topic. This website has copious amounts of information on it - Perouse the 80s forums and I can guarantee you'll find the answers you are seeking

I wish that were true. All I found after digging through the threads posted after 7.3.5 was a bunch of conjecture and supposition. Nobody has numbers.

@Tzvetan from a PvP standpoint for resto shamans, the small ilvl differences between the near and far end of the bracket meant that most BiS gear came from Dragon Soul (@85) for just the sheer number of sockets. A couple of exceptions came from Northrend quests and old TBC dungeon gear that scaled up well. Specifically, I highly recommend getting the Talisman of the Breaker (Blood Furnace) and the Abyssal Rune (ToC) before leaving level 80 (if you don't already have them) to make your farming life easier.

My 85 shaman saw a 15 stam, 19 int difference getting boosted to level 89 in a battleground. That small of a difference alone makes it potentially worthwhile to go to 87 just for the Ghost Iron Dragonling trinket, let alone other drops. Then it's a short step to 89 to eliminate the secondary stat degradation vs. the shrinking primary stat boost.

With that said, 8.1.5 could throw a spanner in the works with their ilvl boosts, because all of the ilvl 100 blue and purple gear available to 80s from old instances will boost to ilvl 104 and beyond, making them eligible for cata gems (specifically ones with mastery). I don't know what the secondary stat degradation is at 80 in battlegrounds, but it's possible some old instance gear could boost 80s or (more likely) 85s to the point that it may be worth staying off the high end of the bracket.

 

[Veechard]

If this post was made in 70 section I’d likely be more prone to say 79 all day as they get lvl 75 talents. But in the case of this bracket, I almost want to say 80 >89.

Same amount of sockets (if not more on 80) same BIS gems (pvp vendor??); and with how IL scales thru the xpacks atm (not huge diff between ILs throughout them, ergo almost same primary and secondary of one xpack compared to the following) and how secondary amounts effect you at 80 compared to 89 with those factors considered, I’d say 80 allllll day.

 

[Warglave]

My 85 shaman saw a 15 stam, 19 int difference getting boosted to level 89 in a battleground.

Is that all the scaling there is, simply the baseline stat increase you get from leveling? Saying, if you took that 85 shaman in the exact same gear and just leveled to 89, would you be 15 stam and 19 int stronger outside BGs? Or is there more?

If the only difference is baseline increase, id see no point in both staying below 89 or leveling past the highest level item you wind up using. If you want to use a quest reward that scales, be 89. If you're only using dragon soul gear then there's no difference between 85 or 89... if what im asking is how it works. If there's more to the scaling then that's all moot. If not, then level is...

Right now im looking at the available epics to 89, that will now scale to 128. They are weaker for anyone lower than 89.

If there's better choices then they don't matter, if weapon is just a stat stick to your class then it might. I dunno.

 

[Veechard]

Is that all the scaling there is, simply the baseline stat increase you get from leveling? Saying, if you took that 85 shaman in the exact same gear and just leveled to 89, would you be 15 stam and 19 int stronger outside BGs? Or is there more?

If the only difference is baseline increase, id see no point in both staying below 89 or leveling past the highest level item you wind up using. If you want to use a quest reward that scales, be 89. If you're only using dragon soul gear then there's no difference between 85 or 89... if what im asking is how it works. If there's more to the scaling then that's all moot. If not, then level is...

Right now im looking at the available epics to 89, that will now scale to 128. They are weaker for anyone lower than 89.

If there's better choices then they don't matter, if weapon is just a stat stick to your class then it might. I dunno.

TLD FULLY read, but sometimes having higher secondaries can surpass a bit more stam** and int/str/agil.

Shortest sweetest way I can explain
[doublepost=1549000271,1549000006][/doublepost]Fully read and digested, you are likely right. 85 over 89 as it’s NEARLY same gear aside from engineering cog spinner shyt.

As to weather 80 or 85, my comment a few posts ago
[doublepost=1549000496][/doublepost]And if this is the case, 80s should be super active right now as they could be selling Herald runs, rolling BGs, and still raiding content for some of their BISs. Why the bracket isn’t juking is beyond me

 

[Warglave]

but sometimes having higher secondaries can surpass a bit more stam** and int/str/agil.

I'm ok with that, what im asking is if the secondaries scale at all when you're leveled in the BG. Strictly PvP oriented.

Asking if at 89 in the BG you have the same secondary values (not percentages) as you do at 80 outside. If the values stay the same, the percentages will always decline when leveled up to cap from any level below. Nothing PvE about that query.

If they stay the same, then the only level that matters is the highest level-scaled item you choose to use. If you don't use any, then it truly doesn't matter beyond which raid you decide to gather from. If you use a quest reward from 80-89 then 89 should be the level you choose as the reward will scale to it's highest capacity at 89.

If the secondary values DO change when the BG levels you up, then that all is debatable at best. But if you enter a BG at 80 with 200 crit rating, and when the BG makes you 89 you still have 200 crit rating... that's my point. There's better gear.

edit- I don't have an 80 or an 85, so I cant check. It's more for discussion, not asking anyone to do so.

 

[DAXinko]

87 for maxed BGs
80 coz it's best fookin expansion in this game

Gap 80 - 87 in bgs is small af. If you enjoy PvE, stay 80.

 

[Warglave]

Gap 80 - 87 in bgs is small af.

That's the crux of it all right there... does it really matter? Except for items like https://www.wowhead.com/item=77191/gurthalak-voice-of-the-deeps that you need to be 85 to get.

 

[DAXinko]

That's the crux of it all right there... does it really matter? Except for items like https://www.wowhead.com/item=77191/gurthalak-voice-of-the-deeps that you need to be 85 to get.

The difference is not that big. I would say this bracket has the smallest gap Levelers/80/85/87/89

 

[Merlin]

Stay at 80: benefits of Spellfire set are more pronounced, plus scaled BC gear and the rep rings.

the last i tested, spellfire set's total spellpower still effective and at an advantage even at lvl100, at a cost of some secondary stats, the amount lost in 2nd stats does not outweigh the gain in spellpower for those classes which rely heavily on spellpower.

 

[Tzvetan]

People with Dragonwrath, is it worth going to 85 to get? That's really the main reason why I'd want to level from 80...

 

[jwl]

People with Dragonwrath, is it worth going to 85 to get? That's really the main reason why I'd want to level from 80...

Unless you're an affliction warlock or shadow priest, it really isnt worth it anymore. When I decided to do my "legendary project" Elemental shaman was arguably the strongest class with the staff, but since it only procs off of periodic damage ticks now, Its really not that great of a weapon

 

[Tzvetan]

it only procs off of periodic damage ticks now, Its really not that great of a weapon

Wow, really? Yikes... So it doesn't duplicate any cast spell now, just dot ticks? I wonder if that's "working as intended."

 

[jwl]

Wow, really? Yikes... So it doesn't duplicate any cast spell now, just dot ticks? I wonder if that's "working as intended."

Correct, it only duplicates dot ticks ATM. I was a 92% mastery elemental shaman doing 2-3 lava burst on average cast prior to the nerf. It was really overpowered at one point

 

[Tzvetan]

Bummer. Thanks for the info.

 

[Kirise]

Is that all the scaling there is, simply the baseline stat increase you get from leveling? Saying, if you took that 85 shaman in the exact same gear and just leveled to 89, would you be 15 stam and 19 int stronger outside BGs? Or is there more?

If the only difference is baseline increase, id see no point in both staying below 89 or leveling past the highest level item you wind up using. If you want to use a quest reward that scales, be 89. If you're only using dragon soul gear then there's no difference between 85 or 89... if what im asking is how it works. If there's more to the scaling then that's all moot. If not, then level is...

Right now im looking at the available epics to 89, that will now scale to 128. They are weaker for anyone lower than 89.

If there's better choices then they don't matter, if weapon is just a stat stick to your class then it might. I dunno.

That's exactly the right question, and to answer for anyone who digs up this thread later in the expansion, you are correct -- the only "scaling" in BGs is the baseline stat increase i.e. taking that shaman from 85 to 89 outside of BGs would net 15 stam and 19 int, and no other direct changes. To others' point, the ilvl differences are so small throughout the 80-89 bracket, that min-maxers really do need to consider whether that base stat addition can eclipse the mitigated secondary stat degradation.

In other words, at what level does the bonus baseline stat increase in BGs offset or even surpass the reduced secondary stat percentage loss? In every other bracket, it never does, which is why every other bracket sees the best stats at level x9. But the 80-89 bracket's Dragon Soul raid at 85 and potential BiS items that don't scale past level 80, make 80-89 unique.

That's a long way of saying, no one knows yet, and it's possible the answer could vary widely by class and spec. ...But I'm excited to find out!