70s in BfA
- Thread starter Shinela
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Shinela
Not your everyday tank
I wouldn't bother too much on numbers. Frost is incredibly strong at this stage because of the damage it does.
Fingers of Frost is a very strong proc that seems to proc quite a lot. And if not for Fingers of Frost, then your Brain Freeze will give you a good Flurry and an effect similar to Fingers of Frost after that. And Ice Lance deals the same damage as Pyroblast at this point (When used on the proc).
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
I've played frost on the PTR and the big damage comes from the ebonbolt -> flurry -> ice lance combo which roughly totals 8,5k damage. I haven't tried fire or arcane yet, but my gear is optimized for frost so I might not get accurate results on those specs when I do.
I did however see someone else play a fire mage and they were doing quite good damage despite using a horrible build.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
did this just change or am i the first one to see the bc and wotlk gems get nerfed and the cata pvp gems be the only ones unchanged?
OP
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Shinela
Not your everyday tank
They changed very recently. When I'm on my PC I'll update this in the post itself. Bit annoying to do on my laptop without a mouse for the pictures etc x3
Zoke
Grandfathered
cold heart at 20 stacks hits so hard...
can some one show me where frost dks have glacial advance? i have it on my bars and i cant figure out why or where it came from...
cold heart, horn of winter and avalanche seems to be the way.
unholy looks pretty great atm. im thinking all will serve, unholy blight, and soul reaper.
sudden death, impending victory and rend for arms
so many things hit super hard on arms.
fury plays so fluidly... im thinking endless rage, impending victory, and either sudden dealth or furious slash (tough call here)
also warriors have battle shout now, so +10% ap for the raid for 1 hr
enhance plays even more fast paced and fluidly than fury some how... except its just better...
anyway, hot hand, land slide, earth shield, over charge
rip rainfall
holy crap ele is great.
echo and ele blast seem even
master of the elements and totem mastery seem even... master will have you lava bursting into every earth shock, earth shock hits like an absolute truck.
earth shield and high voltage
also: frost shock is free, has no cd, and does about the same damage as lightning bolt, and should be stuffed in right after each hardcast.
ret - might require a certain amount of haste
righteous verdict, blade of wrath, and wake of ashes
judgement >wake>tv>boj>tv is a sick opener
can some one show me where frost dks have glacial advance? i have it on my bars and i cant figure out why or where it came from...
cold heart, horn of winter and avalanche seems to be the way.
unholy looks pretty great atm. im thinking all will serve, unholy blight, and soul reaper.
sudden death, impending victory and rend for arms
so many things hit super hard on arms.
fury plays so fluidly... im thinking endless rage, impending victory, and either sudden dealth or furious slash (tough call here)
also warriors have battle shout now, so +10% ap for the raid for 1 hr
enhance plays even more fast paced and fluidly than fury some how... except its just better...
anyway, hot hand, land slide, earth shield, over charge
rip rainfall
holy crap ele is great.
echo and ele blast seem even
master of the elements and totem mastery seem even... master will have you lava bursting into every earth shock, earth shock hits like an absolute truck.
earth shield and high voltage
also: frost shock is free, has no cd, and does about the same damage as lightning bolt, and should be stuffed in right after each hardcast.
ret - might require a certain amount of haste
righteous verdict, blade of wrath, and wake of ashes
judgement >wake>tv>boj>tv is a sick opener
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Gixxer66
Legend
Bad News: TBC Epic Gems have had a squish
Good News: http://www.wowhead.com/item=28118/brilliant-ornate-ruby and http://www.wowhead.com/item=28362/delicate-ornate-ruby haven't, and ARE still available from the PvP Accessories Quartermasters. None of the gems that 60/70 twinks can use from them have been squished. Both the single stat and multiple stat are now BiS for non J/C toons ( I think )
I checked the stat values on a 60 so should hold good for a 70 too. Currency is marks of Honor still. Time to farm some in 110 BGs' I guess.
Good News: http://www.wowhead.com/item=28118/brilliant-ornate-ruby and http://www.wowhead.com/item=28362/delicate-ornate-ruby haven't, and ARE still available from the PvP Accessories Quartermasters. None of the gems that 60/70 twinks can use from them have been squished. Both the single stat and multiple stat are now BiS for non J/C toons ( I think )
I checked the stat values on a 60 so should hold good for a 70 too. Currency is marks of Honor still. Time to farm some in 110 BGs' I guess.
OP
OP
Shinela
Not your everyday tank
Yes. Unfortunately there's no strength gems for these. Main stats on cut gems are now +6, and off-stats are now +13. There are some special JC only gems. More info will show up on the main page in... 10 minutes or so.
[doublepost=1529520226,1529515210][/doublepost]Update: Made everything in the main post a little easier to read
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
Eh, I know you don't play frost mage so I'll forgive you for getting this wrong.
There's definitely less interaction in your gameplay on the PTR right now compared to Legion.
(I'm about to talk about the complexity of a damage rotation in wow. I know there will be a lot of people who will instinctively want to type something like "lol the rotations in wow are so easy how can it be hard to press frostbolt lmaooooo" so I'll put this disclaimer here: I am not claiming that any damage rotations in wow are rocket science and I'm fully aware that they are intentionally designed to be easy. What I'm talking about are minor changes to complexity. Even if a rotation is easy I still prefer more complexity over less.)
While ray of frost was a pretty boring spell to cast because of being a lengthy channel, it actually added complexity to the spec because it was so powerful. How well you played frost mage came down to how well you could line up cooldowns and trinkets with RoF. It wasn't always intuitive whether it would be worth delaying RoF for X amount of seconds to line it up with X cooldown when you had to make the choice mid-combat, etc.
The loss of water jet has made lonely winter the clear PvE choice. Water jet itself was a pretty fun mini cooldown to manage. You had to take the travel time of a frostbolt from you to the target into account in order to get the most out of it. And the loss of the pet itself is also a minor complexity hit. On certain bosses you had to manually position your pet, etc.
Because lonely winter is the clear choice we also lose ice nova which was another pretty fun mini cooldown. Sometimes you could choose to hold it if you knew add cleave was coming up.
Ebonbolt is nice though, it just doesn't compensate for all the other shit.
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OP
Shinela
Not your everyday tank
Updated accordingly! Thanks for sharing your more experienced opinion on this ^.^
Chey
Legend
Finaly got around to geting PTR must say I like a lot of what iam seeing so far. Only played for an hour or so last night.
couple of wierd things
Band of the eternal champion procs 80agil (buff) but dose not add the agility to stats.
Also the haste meta proc (wtlk one) procs 2300 somthing haste but again dose not add the haste to stats. Have not checked the BC version yet.
couple of wierd things
Band of the eternal champion procs 80agil (buff) but dose not add the agility to stats.
Also the haste meta proc (wtlk one) procs 2300 somthing haste but again dose not add the haste to stats. Have not checked the BC version yet.
OP
OP
Shinela
Not your everyday tank
This is true for many buffs in general. A good example is the other proc rings too, where you proc 10k spell power but effectively actually just get nothing. I've reported this multiple times, I'm sure they'll eventually glance over it and shrug.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
This has been the case for the last few patch cycles as well. It seems like blizzard knows numbers are fucked before release so they just disable the bonus and keep the tooltip
Zoke
Grandfathered
id like to point out that dispite the tool tips for gift enchants being nerfed, my secondaries %s are the same as the where on live.
ww plays almost exactly the same, except now i think youll want chi burst because it gens chi, and also fist of the white tiger will be used over tiger palm every 30 sec... or stay with energizing elixir and change like nothing...
also, the renamed effuse to vivify for some reason.
touch of death is change slightly, deals more damage based ont he damage you do in the 8 sec before it hits, so id use ToD right after your SeF images get to the target and then start in on rsk>fof>tp>bok>tp>rsk.... could potentially be a big opener.
also ww has a passive called mystic touch "your damage weakens the target increasing physical dmg taken by 5%"
this needs testing. does this 5% apply to the whole raid?
@Dreams are you sure lonely winter is the clear choice over ice nova? also do you still think pendant is bis for frost?
mages now have +10% int to raid buff. and we have remove curse back!
fire spec: searing touch, shimmer, mirror/rune, pheonix flames
pheonix is mandatory.
arcane seems unchanged.
feral is also unchanged.
balance now has eclipse, adding a 20% chance to both lunar and solar empowerment when you cast the opposite spell.
celestial alignment is 15% sp and 15% haste now.
force of nature still taunts.
natures balance feels great.
i think warrior of elune is probably the way to go.
the change to empowerments make this spec much more smooth to play.
[doublepost=1529592527,1529591275][/doublepost]the trinket: talon of al'ar's effect is disabled ...
surv now has... so many changes...
hunters now have primal rage: this is hero/lust
alpha predator and guerilla tactics seem pretty set in stone, although terms of engagement might pull ahead for the extra focus regen.
the 60 tier is a toss up between blood seeker and murder of crows depending on how they tune the numbers.
looks like all pets should always be ferocity. they get lust and 10% leech on you and your pet.
surv also now has misdirect again.
overall the spec seems less fun. mostly just kill command and raptor strike, neither of which hit very hard on the ptr. wildfire bomb is great,you dont have to aim it anymore.and you have serpent sting again.
ww plays almost exactly the same, except now i think youll want chi burst because it gens chi, and also fist of the white tiger will be used over tiger palm every 30 sec... or stay with energizing elixir and change like nothing...
also, the renamed effuse to vivify for some reason.
touch of death is change slightly, deals more damage based ont he damage you do in the 8 sec before it hits, so id use ToD right after your SeF images get to the target and then start in on rsk>fof>tp>bok>tp>rsk.... could potentially be a big opener.
also ww has a passive called mystic touch "your damage weakens the target increasing physical dmg taken by 5%"
this needs testing. does this 5% apply to the whole raid?
@Dreams are you sure lonely winter is the clear choice over ice nova? also do you still think pendant is bis for frost?
mages now have +10% int to raid buff. and we have remove curse back!
fire spec: searing touch, shimmer, mirror/rune, pheonix flames
pheonix is mandatory.
arcane seems unchanged.
feral is also unchanged.
balance now has eclipse, adding a 20% chance to both lunar and solar empowerment when you cast the opposite spell.
celestial alignment is 15% sp and 15% haste now.
force of nature still taunts.
natures balance feels great.
i think warrior of elune is probably the way to go.
the change to empowerments make this spec much more smooth to play.
[doublepost=1529592527,1529591275][/doublepost]the trinket: talon of al'ar's effect is disabled ...
surv now has... so many changes...
hunters now have primal rage: this is hero/lust
alpha predator and guerilla tactics seem pretty set in stone, although terms of engagement might pull ahead for the extra focus regen.
the 60 tier is a toss up between blood seeker and murder of crows depending on how they tune the numbers.
looks like all pets should always be ferocity. they get lust and 10% leech on you and your pet.
surv also now has misdirect again.
overall the spec seems less fun. mostly just kill command and raptor strike, neither of which hit very hard on the ptr. wildfire bomb is great,you dont have to aim it anymore.and you have serpent sting again.
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OP
OP
Shinela
Not your everyday tank
Thanks, I haven't gone though WW yet so this information is useful. I didn't enjoy monk at all during Legion either, so my knowledge over them is.. Well, weak. I'll definitely take this in mind when testing them!
Have group, will test
Wouldn't really like to tell which talents are best just yet. Numbers are numbers on the beta and change more often than my sister's mood. Sure, pheonix flames seems like the best choice just by what it does even with terrible damage, but you never know.
As for the other messages you sent, I'll definitely use the provided information for when I'm testing them!
Zoke
Grandfathered
im posting what talents i think are best based on how the affect the rotation, not how much dps they might do after tuning. (although i am also guessing at what i think they have planned there aswell)
[doublepost=1529593637,1529593578][/doublepost]also about pheonix, it contributes to free pyroblasts. it cant not be manditory.
[doublepost=1529593637,1529593578][/doublepost]also about pheonix, it contributes to free pyroblasts. it cant not be manditory.
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
Yeah it's not even close. To be clear I'm talking about PvE boss fights.
I haven't looked at any gear yet. It doesn't seem worth it to speculate on BiS before the patch is live.
Zoke
Grandfathered
marks has lonewolf as a passive now. the good news is: you can still have a pet out, meaning you start the fight with lust ant if your pet dies, its less of a dps loss(possibly a dps gain?)
the lvl 30 tier is open to debate, but it looks like murder of crows and either hunters mark or streamline.
rapid fire stacks blackened naaru sliver fast. it can also be interrupted early, so dont push anything until its done!
youll be slipping in arcane shots after aimed shot and steady shot.
overall im not sure on this spec... its about a 50/50 as far as fun, but its also alot more engaging than it was in legion.
[doublepost=1529596672,1529595440][/doublepost]bm now has barbed shot which is... awesome...
chimera shot is still the best thing ever.
the entire first row looks great.
murder of crows looks like the winner.
overall bm plays well, always a button to push, and loads of interactivity between most of your skills.
barbed shot's focus gen stacks if you use multiple charges on top of each other, but the damage over time bleed does not. the bleed is rather weak though so i wouldnt even worry about it.
on paper dire beast, one with the pack, and thrill of the hunt looks like theyd all synergize well together... but its not possible to maintain a 3 stack of thrill at 30% base crit. possibly at 40?
currently the build i like best is dire beast, chimera, and murder.
[doublepost=1529597925][/doublepost]priests have their 10% health buff again.
shadow's base abilities are mostly unchanged, but the talents look way better.
god that 45 tier is good. i think its betweek dark void and twist of fate.
im thinking shadowy insight and san'layn for sure though
overall the spec feels good still.
@Shinela for disc, schism talent got changed. its now 24 sec cd. 9 sec duration and 40% instead of 30... overall i think this talent is less usable. i would now reccomend castigation even if youre healing via dps+atonement (as intended).
also, disc got a new passive, power of the dark side: shadow word pain has a chance to power penance increasing its effect by 50%
also power word shield has no cd, and rapture doubles it for 10 sec... extremely powerful.
the lvl 30 tier is open to debate, but it looks like murder of crows and either hunters mark or streamline.
rapid fire stacks blackened naaru sliver fast. it can also be interrupted early, so dont push anything until its done!
youll be slipping in arcane shots after aimed shot and steady shot.
overall im not sure on this spec... its about a 50/50 as far as fun, but its also alot more engaging than it was in legion.
[doublepost=1529596672,1529595440][/doublepost]bm now has barbed shot which is... awesome...
chimera shot is still the best thing ever.
the entire first row looks great.
murder of crows looks like the winner.
overall bm plays well, always a button to push, and loads of interactivity between most of your skills.
barbed shot's focus gen stacks if you use multiple charges on top of each other, but the damage over time bleed does not. the bleed is rather weak though so i wouldnt even worry about it.
on paper dire beast, one with the pack, and thrill of the hunt looks like theyd all synergize well together... but its not possible to maintain a 3 stack of thrill at 30% base crit. possibly at 40?
currently the build i like best is dire beast, chimera, and murder.
[doublepost=1529597925][/doublepost]priests have their 10% health buff again.
shadow's base abilities are mostly unchanged, but the talents look way better.
god that 45 tier is good. i think its betweek dark void and twist of fate.
im thinking shadowy insight and san'layn for sure though
overall the spec feels good still.
@Shinela for disc, schism talent got changed. its now 24 sec cd. 9 sec duration and 40% instead of 30... overall i think this talent is less usable. i would now reccomend castigation even if youre healing via dps+atonement (as intended).
also, disc got a new passive, power of the dark side: shadow word pain has a chance to power penance increasing its effect by 50%
also power word shield has no cd, and rapture doubles it for 10 sec... extremely powerful.
OP
OP
Shinela
Not your everyday tank
@Zoke Just like to point out I already covered the priest so I'm well aware of these changes. But again, I don't look at numbers and so forth, right now I look at how it plays. After all, numbers are subject to change. A lot.
Sure, some talents are better right now, but why tell everyone that, for example, Twist of Fate would be the best talent if in maybe 2 days they patch the beta and suddenly changed the numbers? I'd have to look at every single update every single day to update the "what's the best talent" part.
What more, people look at these maybe once every so often. There's no point going into such detail on what is best right now, if it changes all the time anyway. I'm informing people on how things play, and I'll actually go into numbers once the prepatch is life, where we know that numbers are much more likely to remain where they are.
Sure, some talents are better right now, but why tell everyone that, for example, Twist of Fate would be the best talent if in maybe 2 days they patch the beta and suddenly changed the numbers? I'd have to look at every single update every single day to update the "what's the best talent" part.
What more, people look at these maybe once every so often. There's no point going into such detail on what is best right now, if it changes all the time anyway. I'm informing people on how things play, and I'll actually go into numbers once the prepatch is life, where we know that numbers are much more likely to remain where they are.