Mongro
Legend
LOL I can't believe he actually said that.
Actually, I can believe it. I guess "mannerisms" was never the word of the day at his high school.
29 US Fight Nights
- Thread starter Donteventrii
- Start date
LOL I can't believe he actually said that.
Actually, I can believe it. I guess "mannerisms" was never the word of the day at his high school.
Megumi
OG
That was never Blizzard's stance. Their original stance was "Meh, we know twinking exist, but we don't care."
Willyshatner
Legend
Kirise
OG
This thread is still going on? Time to throw in a couple more cents.
Accessibility is a major reason people twink in the more popular brackets, for some twinks. Others prefer the higher "barrier to entry" of the midbrackets, precisely because it acts as a filter for casual twinks. So both views are correct in their own contexts, and certainly this oversimplifies twink motivations.
Going past three nights a week always leads to a drop in activity per player, though not necessarily for the bracket. If you're not running two gulches simultaneously on game nights, going for a 4th night gets dangerous, as the midbrackets prove time and again. Historically (and anecdotally), once a bracket successfully crosses that threshold, it's actually a smaller step to go from 4 nights a week to playing nightly, as the 4-night threshold seems to mark the critical transition of a bracket getting its next "growth spurt" of interest.
While the XP-off feature was not intended just to house only twinks, the XP-off battlegrounds sure were. Ask Tom Chilton. Yes, that Tom Chilton
http://www.videogame...ons.html?page=2
Gads, I love trotting out that link. Anyway, the point is that XP-off battlegrounds are twink battlegrounds. Like anything else in WoW, players can play for whatever reasons they want. From a design standpoint, XP-off BGs are for twinks, even though XP-off in general isn't just for twinking.
Back to the main point, the struggle of 29s has less to do with ease of gearing (or lack thereof), and more to do with spending time in a smaller, dedicated community. And currently, this community has a reputation for infighting and disrespect. I mean, c'mon, if 49s can continue to attract new players despite the most challenging gear grind and highest burst of all the XP-off brackets, 29s as a bracket can succeed. But you'll have to spend less time with reasons on why 29s struggle, and more on reasons why 29s are worth playing.
TL;DR version: no matter what reasons 29s give for their ailments, 29s can overcome them, just as other brackets overcame greater challenges. So stop analyzing problems with the game itself, and start working on making a difference for players in the community.
Accessibility is a major reason people twink in the more popular brackets, for some twinks. Others prefer the higher "barrier to entry" of the midbrackets, precisely because it acts as a filter for casual twinks. So both views are correct in their own contexts, and certainly this oversimplifies twink motivations.
Going past three nights a week always leads to a drop in activity per player, though not necessarily for the bracket. If you're not running two gulches simultaneously on game nights, going for a 4th night gets dangerous, as the midbrackets prove time and again. Historically (and anecdotally), once a bracket successfully crosses that threshold, it's actually a smaller step to go from 4 nights a week to playing nightly, as the 4-night threshold seems to mark the critical transition of a bracket getting its next "growth spurt" of interest.
While the XP-off feature was not intended just to house only twinks, the XP-off battlegrounds sure were. Ask Tom Chilton. Yes, that Tom Chilton
http://www.videogame...ons.html?page=2
Gads, I love trotting out that link. Anyway, the point is that XP-off battlegrounds are twink battlegrounds. Like anything else in WoW, players can play for whatever reasons they want. From a design standpoint, XP-off BGs are for twinks, even though XP-off in general isn't just for twinking.
Back to the main point, the struggle of 29s has less to do with ease of gearing (or lack thereof), and more to do with spending time in a smaller, dedicated community. And currently, this community has a reputation for infighting and disrespect. I mean, c'mon, if 49s can continue to attract new players despite the most challenging gear grind and highest burst of all the XP-off brackets, 29s as a bracket can succeed. But you'll have to spend less time with reasons on why 29s struggle, and more on reasons why 29s are worth playing.
TL;DR version: no matter what reasons 29s give for their ailments, 29s can overcome them, just as other brackets overcame greater challenges. So stop analyzing problems with the game itself, and start working on making a difference for players in the community.
Zuladin
Legend
Mongro
Legend
That's just it, 29s aren't worth playing anymore. Setting aside the fact that there are laughable class imbalances and that the games are dull, the bracket still isn't worth playing because there is no hope for growth. Player ability isn't going to increase and player numbers certainly won't increase. Since the time when I started following the activities of this "bracket" again, I have seen only two notable influxes of new or returning players. The first was Wbern's Detox revival and the second was Master Ballerz. The fact that either of these influxes are worth noting shows exactly how dead this bracket is. They brought in a handful of players each.
Willyshatner
Legend
Fixed that for you. Otherwise, I agree with most everything else you said. We definitely are capable of getting over the drama and animosity that some of the people in this bracket insist on harboring. Just not sure that certain individuals are willing to do that. For them, things are always going to be about how they can 'perfect' the bracket by taking extreme measures.
What do you think we could/should do to get things back on track?
What do you think would make the bracket worth it? You know, setting aside your personal opinions of the bracket.
Igotoparties
Legend
Awesome post Bwappo, needed to be said.
Mongro
Legend
If there were people/guilds actively recruiting and if people like you didn't feel the need to jump into every possible conversation. I realize that there are a few who would point their fingers back at me and I agree. I would gladly cease my contribution to the antics of this bracket if others cared enough to do the same. Would I care to set an example? No. I don't care anymore.
Also, don't you think it's a bit stupid to ask my personal opinion while simultaneously asking me to set aside my personal opinion?
rubikz
Legend
Willyshatner
Legend
So you're saying the bracket would be worth playing if there were a somewhat steady influx of new players? Wouldn't that turn the bracket into 19s/70s given enough time?
I don't feel the need to jump into every possible conversation. I do feel the need to contribute my 2 cents to conversations that might have an effect on a bracket that I care about more than any other (including endgame) and a bracket I have been a part of for nearly 5 years now. It matters to me when I can't get games because too many people treat other players like shit. Because too many people decide that there's more important things to do than play in a bracket that doesn't supply their ideal 'dream game.'
Except for the fact that I have been spending as much time as I possibly can playing in games for the sake of making them happen, while you've played in a grand total of two or three. I think I have earned at least the right to voice my opinion on matters that directly affect me.
It's entirely possible to share an opinion about something without making it personal. A good example would be 'I think it would be good if you decorated your living room with bright accents and more neutral furniture, it would definitely improve the overall feel' instead of 'I think your living room looks absolutely laughable, it isn't worth spending a single mintue in there until you do something about the atrocious decor.'
Aspiring to be the next Mongro, I see. You're definitely headed in the right direction.
Mongro
Legend
This is why nobody likes you. You ask me what would make the bracket worth playing to me and then you try to argue with my answer. It's clearly a personal opinion and not worth breaking down, but you have to make an issue out of it anyways. I'm not going to bother directly responding to anything you said because it's a waste of time. If you still don't recognize that you're a part of the problem, then there is absolutely no hope for you.
Willyshatner
Legend
No, I asked for an unbiased opinion of what you think it would take for the bracket to be enjoyable for everyone else. You missed that part and then proceeded to jump straight to something you could potentially use to fuel some sort of personal attack to try and discredit everything I said. That's why I threw out an example of two different ways to share an opinion, hoping you would grasp that I wanted to see the former, not the latter.
Once again, you have proven that you're not willing to discuss anything positive or helpful. You've sat here for months pointing out why this bracket is garbage, when you don't even play it. You tell me that no one likes me, but I can sit in vent and have conversations with anyone from this bracket, except for maybe Sam, without any of the animosity you bring to the table. The fact is there's maybe two of you who 'don't like me' and I could honestly care less. Then you tell me I am part of the problem when all I have ever done is try my best to address the problems in a realistic and accurate manner. I've tried to be unbiased and neutral the vast majority of the time, since that's the only way to carry on a real discussion that has any chance of actually changing something.
I've refrained from just about every opportunity to resort to the petty personal attacks you and others seem to crutch on. At the end of the day I know what it will take to get this bracket going again, and I really didn't need your opinion to understand what that is. The sad part is that this bracket is done and even if we all got together in a few months to try and revive it, the same bullshit would only tear it all down again.
Meanwhile, the 19s/70s/f2p/whatever brackets will all maintain constant activity without ever having to schedule anything. They will continue to place a high value on getting games over squabbling about stupid shit, and the more skilled players will continue to set up things like wargames, rated BGs, and premades to get those 'high quality games.' They will all succeed where we failed. If you want to have a happy healthy bracket, you will have to do what they all do.
Which is why it will never happen.
PS. it was nice playing with many of you, despite the forum/vent drama. I can only look forward to seeing you in other brackets (possibly) and if we do get anything going @ 29s, maybe I'll see you guys again. In the meantime, stay classy.
<3 Willy
Fcftw
ftl
#1