29 US Fight Nights
- Thread starter Donteventrii
- Start date
Willyshatner
Legend
Not exactly. I would then proceed to ask for much more information. I would have to know all the details and variables that went into games before I could say that 'yes, hunters are OP.' Some of those variables are things that no one is willing to produce, especially in our games. One of the major variables is group coordination. Being able to use the right abilities at the right time in conjunction with the rest of your team, to make them effective, is the most important aspect of group pvp. Whether you're trying to get a kill for a flag return, or trying to setup an offensive push by stalling their offense, coordination is the foundation for it all.
My point is and always has been, I would gladly agree with any one of you claiming that hunters are OP, provided that you can substantiate all the variables that went into whatever scenario you are talking about, and can indefinitely exclude everything besides hunter mechanics as the determining factor of the outcome.
It's a waste of time because you're not willing to go to any lengths to prove your point of view. You just want to say that hunters are OP and use anecdotal evidence to support your point of view. 'I got aim shotted for 1.5k hp at 41 yards, that's over half my life fully buffed. Hunters are OP because no other class can do that.' It might be wise of you to consider that every class has abilities that change combat, which other classes simply do not have. How many possible BG scenarios do we have to rule out before you consider that maybe hunters were balanced a certain way and maybe you're just not playing group pvp in a fashion consistent with the way they were balanced?
Except that this time last year we had significantly more activity than we have had in the last few months, all the way up to mid November. Games didn't stop until people started going on vacation to spend their holidays with family, which is a perfectly valid reason for activity to drop. I wouldn't state that there is a trend that's being followed here by games ending on September 22nd. Not one that matches up with anything you've claimed is at fault for games being over with.
There's two things wrong with this statement. One, hunters have been back in full force since early June when Detox showed up to play. There were many game nights when both alliance and horde had multiple hunters present on the field (good ones, at that) when games didn't stop immediately afterward. I highly doubt that if hunters were really that big of a problem even a larger part of the community (rather than just a few players), games would have stopped in June, not nearly 4 months later near the end of September.
Secondly, you're drastically over stating the number of people who have a problem with hunters to the point of deciding to quit because of it. If the few of you can quit games early on, and games still happen, it's likely that there really were so few of you who have that much of a problem with hunters. Besides that, the last few nights where we haven't had games, it's those people who typically play hunters who haven't been showing up. Not people who have a problem with hunters.
I don't think that the level at which you're playing has anything to do with the popularity of a bracket. Level is just a number. How many players play 19s AND other brackets? You'll see people claiming many reasons for playing in a certain bracket. Some will claim that talents/abilitites/gear/enchants/glyphs make for an interesting environment. Some will claim that their friends play it. Some will claim that they just happened to try pvp at that level and really enjoyed it. Some will claim that the burst is just right. There are probably a great many more reasons that all come before 'it's easy and inexpensive' or 'it was the first level I could twink at.'
If what you're saying was accurate or realistic, then the 10-14 bracket would be the most popular bracket out there. But it's not.
A lot of this is just conjecture. Theory crafting. Whatever. some of it may be true on a case by case scenario, but I don't think any of it is a general reason why 70s are so popular. Just looking at the potential burst from the right combination of class/professions, 70s can be just as bursty (if not more) than any other bracket. There has to be some underlying reason why people in general would quit the middle brackets in favor of 19s or 70s, aside from anything you've mentioned here.
After all, that's only a realistic or accurate point one could have.
Reality? You mean like seeing with my own eyes, a bracket getting games for months and months desipte claims of too many hunters/banned items being detirmental? You mean like watching as people (both potential new recruits and existing players) leaving the bracket and stating that their reasoning was the constant drama and vote kicking? You mean like sitting here as good players on the other team continuously out perform us with coordinated efforts on both offense/defense, game after game, night after night, week after week, month after month? Or how about face palming as horde players keep suggesting that it's the responsibility of better players to even out teams for the sake of a healthy growing bracket?
A bracket that very few players are making any attempts at recruiting for. A bracket where new blood is more likely to get treated like garbage than be treated like a valued member of the community. A bracket where the very will of the outspoken players demands that we become insular because that's the only way to keep a standard of quality between games. An insular bracket is a dead bracket.
Case in point.... 29s.
I didn't invent anything. I am perfectly capable of different mannerisms when it suits me. It's interesting that you got all upset about it.
If I were you, I would stop accusing people that disagree with you of being trolls.
Ohai
OG
10-14 is a very recent bracket to be introduced. I would find the comparison to be a bit unfair, but looking at the numbers:
10-14 BIS gear list has about25603 views and 153 replies here on their subforum.
15-19 pinned threads seem to range from 18k views to around 44k views on their forum.
Just going by number of views, and the View/Reply numbers on some of the threads, it seems to be quite quickly growing considering the 19s bracket had what, 4-5 years head start to build interest?
I don't know if you remember, but games stopped for 3-4 game nights in a row after anywhere between 1 and 4 games. The bracket really did almost die out, and then we all got bored, detox moved to 85s and Ryan went on vacation. The rest of us (Mino, Dez, Myself, etc) basically balanced ourselves between sides and game quality improved again. There were nearly no GOOD active hunters for a couple weeks there in ... July I believe.
If only Meed were here. Look, I did the whole playing with Ryan and DetoX thing when we were beating the shit out of the horde till the bracket nearly died. I was being a dick and playing with friends because I put personal enjoyment and playing with friends over the obvious lack of balance in the games. Games were shitty and ending at 9 every night.
The honus is on the hardcore skilled players to split themselves up evenly for fair matches if you want highly competitive games. It didn't happen, end of story.
Igotoparties
Legend
The real problem with the 29 bracket is the faggotry contained in this thread. Arguing about why things are the way they are instead of constructively discussing how to fix it is an enormous waste of everyone's time. You guys can sit there and type up walls of text all you want, but at the end of the day there are a few things that I can guarantee will contribute to the return of 29's (if it's even possible):
Recruiting on the BG forums via fightnight threads (and actually showing up to fight night games when you're available)
Having a 29 thread that we post in on the WoW forums where we arent cunts to each other and report each other for stupid things
Having a "I'm not gonna piss and moan about the quality of the games" rule. If you dont like the way the games are going, make some friends for fucks sake and make them twink at 29 with you. Fuck, roll 5 hunters for all I care, at least that way I dont have to listen to how "unfair" everything is. If it's so fucking good, YOU roll a hunter.
Recruiting on the BG forums via fightnight threads (and actually showing up to fight night games when you're available)
Having a 29 thread that we post in on the WoW forums where we arent cunts to each other and report each other for stupid things
Having a "I'm not gonna piss and moan about the quality of the games" rule. If you dont like the way the games are going, make some friends for fucks sake and make them twink at 29 with you. Fuck, roll 5 hunters for all I care, at least that way I dont have to listen to how "unfair" everything is. If it's so fucking good, YOU roll a hunter.
Thee_Minowaman
Guest
On behalf of the death of 29s, I will be accepting all challenges for deletion duels on Windrunner. Lets see how many of you studs I can take down before inevitably deleting this toon.
You're obvy responsible for your own xfer/xfaction. Don't come ball-washing to me for free hand-outs.
P.S. I got superior movement like Cirran idiote. Don't tess me, or tess me if you like I got more artillery than you. BING! BANG! BOOM! Hide the spice bottle. I'm the best eva. There's no one that can stop me. Lenix is a conqueror? No, I'm Alexander! He's no Alexander! I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey, I WANT YOUR HEART IM FEROCIOUS! I beat #1 rogues, #1 shamans, #1 hunters, #1 rets, #1 dks, glad rogues! I'm a big strong nigger that knocks out people and rapes people and...rips off people! You scared of the real man! You're gonna break your hand!
You're obvy responsible for your own xfer/xfaction. Don't come ball-washing to me for free hand-outs.
P.S. I got superior movement like Cirran idiote. Don't tess me, or tess me if you like I got more artillery than you. BING! BANG! BOOM! Hide the spice bottle. I'm the best eva. There's no one that can stop me. Lenix is a conqueror? No, I'm Alexander! He's no Alexander! I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey, I WANT YOUR HEART IM FEROCIOUS! I beat #1 rogues, #1 shamans, #1 hunters, #1 rets, #1 dks, glad rogues! I'm a big strong nigger that knocks out people and rapes people and...rips off people! You scared of the real man! You're gonna break your hand!
Willyshatner
Legend
Ohai, at this point we aren't going to agree. You see mountains. I see tectonic plates. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.
Igotoparties. At this point I completely agree. Too much faggotry, and the only way this bracket will ever come back and flourish is by doing the things you suggested. And that might require certain individuals not coming back. Certain individuals I won't name because it's a moot point at the moment.
Minowaman, What is this I don't even.
RIP 29s.
Igotoparties. At this point I completely agree. Too much faggotry, and the only way this bracket will ever come back and flourish is by doing the things you suggested. And that might require certain individuals not coming back. Certain individuals I won't name because it's a moot point at the moment.
Minowaman, What is this I don't even.
RIP 29s.
Franchi
Legend
NO
We have NEVER seen this before!!!1
END OF THEWORLDS!!!!!!
ok it is a little different this time, but not much.
OP
OP
Donteventrii
OG
Lol willy calls anonymous troll accounts in which he lies about not playing in the bracket and writes up walls of text, outing himself in the process, 'mannerisms'. Amazing.
Willyshatner
Legend
I don't think a lot of the people who left are going to be interested in coming back again. The same people are likely to continue their over the top tirade against 'bracket evils' and put us in the same dysfunctional state again.
@ Donteventrii: you should probably stop calling people who disagree with you trolls. 98% of everything I have ever said could have been avoided if you refrained from posting unrealistic, unreasonable, and inaccurate stuff on the forums.
Zuladin
Legend
*in movie annoucer dramatic voice*
The remaining twinks of the 29s bracket are turning on each other rather than trying to save what is left of the bracket, Donteventrii and Willyshatner continue to argue and bicker as they have since the dawn of 29s. The bracket is falling into darkness
*plays ominous music*
Yeah lets stop arguing and like recruit or something.....
The remaining twinks of the 29s bracket are turning on each other rather than trying to save what is left of the bracket, Donteventrii and Willyshatner continue to argue and bicker as they have since the dawn of 29s. The bracket is falling into darkness
*plays ominous music*
Yeah lets stop arguing and like recruit or something.....
Zuladin
Legend
Definately! i need miles austin to stop being injured though and Marcedes lewis to actually do something!
OP
OP
Donteventrii
OG
Ok. If not a troll, most definitely an ignoramus. So dumb in fact, that he could not even post effectively from another account so as not to make it blatantly obvious that it was in fact himself.
Cheers ignoramus.
Cheers ignoramus.
Megumi
OG
I believe most of the players we vote kicked on horde side had no intentions to twink. For example, one under-geared was just queuing so his friend could catch up to his level. It is not what killed games. Anyway, here's a few things that will help a little bit come 4.3:
Marksmanship
Combat
Assassination
Here's hoping that Hunters receive more nerfing. As for rogues, those two changes alone make them a lot more balanced.
Marksmanship
- Aimed Shot now has a 2.9 sec cast time, up from 2.4 sec.
Combat
- Backstab damage has been reduced by 50%. (This change is NOT in the official notes and could be a parsing error)
Assassination
- Ambush damage has been reduced by 48%. (This change is NOT in the official notes and could be a parsing error)
Here's hoping that Hunters receive more nerfing. As for rogues, those two changes alone make them a lot more balanced.
Franchi
Legend
you me 24 face roll fest right now k?
I am on my new warrior atm want to play around with her a bit.
Igotoparties
Legend
If the damage output of Aimed Shot isnt changing, how is that going to help you guys? What difference is .5 seconds going to make for someone like me that manages to already stand there and cast for 2.4 seconds? None imo, but power to you if you think it's going to change anything. Not to mention the fact that people piss and moan about hunters REGARDLESS OF SPEC and FREQUENTLY defend Survival as the top burst+control spec. Personally I disagree and I think that all three specs are very strong in their individual ways (I think BM is highly underrated), and I dont think nerfing one move will hinder anybody in any significant way.
Willyshatner
Legend
Well, I don't think it's unfair to say that the XP off bracket wasn't really intended for just twinks. After all, they don't call it the 'twink switch' or the 'twink bracket.' They call it the 'XP off switch' and the 'XP off bracket' and went to such lengths as to preview the feature as a means for people to do exactly as much as what you said here:
Basically, the XP off feature was not intended to house twinks only, just like the XP addition to BGs was not intended to serve non twinks only.
Outside of that, there is a lot more to the issue of mass reporting people afk than just the people who got reported and booted from games. There are players who have said as much that they didn't agree with flat out kicking people from games. We could discuss at length the reasonings and justifications people use to kick other players, and it basically amounts to majority rules. I had a conversation with another player a few nights ago about that very thing.
Basically, whenever you're in a group activity in this game, the majority consensus dictates what happens in said group. If the majority of the group wants to oust you from the group, no matter how unfair or unjust it seems, they have the ability and right to do so. It sucks, but that's the World of Warcraft that we play.
As far as hunters go, there's a fine line that has to be walked by Blizzard when it comes to game balance. How do they decide that hunters are truly OP and in need of nerfs? Do they visit the forums and read the QQ threads of low level players who are likely complaining just for the sake of complaining? How do they determine that zero other factors were present which cause hunters to consistently out perform all other classes? How do they determine that it's the class and not the player? How do they determine that it's the class and not the environment?
It's similar to the case of frost mages at level 85. The vast majority of players would agree that frost mages are simply ridiculous and OP in low rated PVP (including random BGs). Blizzard has agreed with this, and gone to lengths to address some of the concerns that players have. They have explained that in high level pvp (where there are more equal skill levels across the board) frost mages aren't nearly as powerful, and tend to be one of the harder classes to play effectively. They explained that this is due to the overall higher skill levels of players and their increased ability to correctly play their classes in those areas of the game.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2267599521 last Q&A of the first post.
I can imagine them giving the same sort of response about low level hunters.