20s DH Guide (Shadowlands)

Asylum · Sep 9, 2021

Intro(vers)

I see you have decided to cast aside others' doubts & persevere through the meme:
#DHisBad@PvP...

Welcome! Let me show you how to put the "Emo" back into Demon Hunter.
The experience is unlike any other, and with time you will learn to dodge some of the pitfalls; but ultimately love, even relish in the Pain & Suffering that is your existence.

Demon Hunters excel at mobility not only through abilities such as https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344865/fel-rush, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344866/vengeful-retreat, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189110/infernal-strike & Havoc's https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis, but also the https://www.wowhead.com/spell=196055/double-jump + https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide combo. Hitting your jump button 4 times with properly timed intervals between each keystroke result in a higher movement speed than if you were to manually run your legs on the ground like some sort of peasant.

Couple the mobility with a good interrupting toolkit: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=183752/disrupt, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344867/chaos-nova & https://www.wowhead.com/spell=205630/illidans-grasp as well as other control abilities such as https://www.wowhead.com/spell=278326/consume-magic and you got yourself a fun and engaging controller/brawler class.

Table of Contents:
Starting Out
Gearing
Talents
Combat
Conclusion & Discussion

Asylum · Sep 9, 2021

First & Foremost: The Starting Campaign.

The most important factor here:

You will have to level to 20 before killing rares/progressing through the quests
if you want the best possible values on: https://www.wowhead.com/item=133580/brutargs-sword-tip & https://www.wowhead.com/item=128958/lekos-leash?bonus=6691
(except for the one rare mob we will farm to level up: https://www.wowhead.com/npc=97370/general-volroth. His torment shall be endless!)

Upon completing the Starting Campaign you will be dropped off at the Stormwind City Gates & your Vanilla Hearthstone will be set there.

Side note: unlike all other classes, you will not have to do the Legion Introduction Campaign, as your entire Demon Hunter starting zone was supposed to be the Legion Introduction Campaign. Go to the Mage Quarter as directed by the remnant Campaign quest & click a few options to be ported to New Dalaran for your Legion Hearthstone.
Two Hearthstone in under 5 minutes!

Asylum · Sep 9, 2021

Gearing

Vengance
Mastery doesn't provide a boost to Attack Power like it does for every other tank spec in the bracket. We simply strive for the mastery of Pain, i.e.: it provides a % of your AGI as extra armor when using https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203720/demon-spikes.

With Vengeance you want to aim for more sockets in your gear since mastery is far more situational when compared to Havoc (unless you have specific mitigation goals as FC). More sockets gives you the option to stack STAM via Steady Talasites for FCing or AGI via crafted epic gems for an offensive-minded playstyle.
AGI boosts your dodge % as well.

Secondary Stat priority for green BoEs is Aurora > Harmonious > Quickblade (in descending order)

Havoc
Mastery raises the Chaos Damage for https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198013/eye-beam & https://www.wowhead.com/spell=320413/chaos-strike, which is both burst & sustained damage; a good choice for stat investment despite having such a narrow benefit.

Havoc benefits from mastery more than Vengeance, so the loss of sockets is made up for by having the DPS boost from your secondary stats. Plus: you generally want more haste as Havoc because you will utilize lower GCDs more than Vengeance.

These gear builds are not absolute, you can swap the sets for each specs, and still see it perform rather well. If you can't be bothered to farm TBC dungeons for the few blue BoP pieces that Havoc needs, you will be pleasantly surprised to find that even a full ilvl 28 green BoE set bought off the AH will not be far behind its dungeon counterpart (as long as you have a secondary stat focus).

Asylum · Sep 9, 2021

Asylum · Sep 10, 2021

Combat

Vengance
It may be tempting to open with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189110/infernal-strike, but I find it is best used to chase runners. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=196055/double-jump + https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide followed by https://www.wowhead.com/spell=232893/felblade is a better choice for your opener because it builds some Fury for the fight you're starting.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203783/shear is your builder ability, it generates 10 Fury per hit & rips a https://www.wowhead.com/spell=215393/lesser-soul-fragment from the target. These https://www.wowhead.com/spell=215393/lesser-soul-fragments (produced by the DH's https://www.wowhead.com/spell=204254/shattered-souls mechanic) heal you for 6% of all damage taken in the last 5 seconds when walked over, so be sure to have your graphical settings set to display them (or use your melee AoE https://www.wowhead.com/spell=228477/soul-cleave to pull the fragments to yourself). Whenever you kill a target they drop a normal sized https://www.wowhead.com/spell=204062/soul-fragment which will you heal you for a much more than their lesser counterparts (they can also be pulled with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=228477/soul-cleave). The https://www.wowhead.com/spell=204254/shattered-souls mechanic is very important to get used to and keep track of during combat to utilize your tankiness.

As long as we're on the topic of tankiness; https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203720/demon-spikes is your defensive ability which boosts your armor by a value relative to your AGI. The armor boost pairs well with the secondary effect of https://www.wowhead.com/spell=204021/fiery-brand, which despite being a pretty heavy hitting ranged ability suited for Killing Blows, is best used as an opener for the 40% reduced damage the target will do to you. If all that's not enough for you, pop a https://www.wowhead.com/spell=187827/metamorphosis for 50% more HP & 200% more armor. Not to mention your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203513/demonic-wards are active at all times.

If taking hits isn't an option, spook 'em with the https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery.

Havoc
Unlike https://www.wowhead.com/spell=189110/infernal-strike with the Vengeance spec, Havoc's https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis is a great opener! The Demon Form increases haste by 25% & empowers your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=188499/blade-dance & https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike, but most importantly: it has a built-in gap closer & it dazes on impact. It's also really nice to have https://www.wowhead.com/spell=179057/chaos-nova for yet another AoE stun in this toolkit.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162243/demons-bite is your builder ability, it generates between 20 to 30 Fury, which you will need a lot of to spam your sustained DPS ability: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike. Surprisingly, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike has potential to be spammed (assuming you built up your Fury beforehand) for a short period of time if you get lucky enough, because it has a chance to refund half the Fury it costs.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur is your Defensive 1min CD for Havoc. This DPS spec also has https://www.wowhead.com/spell=178940/shattered-souls, but it only grants normal-sized https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203981/soul-fragments upon killing blow. These Havoc https://www.wowhead.com/spell=203981/soul-fragments heal for 20% of max HP.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat is generally there to get out of the thick of it if tanking damage or self-healing are not an option, but also pairs well with other abilities for control of the fight. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat followed by a quick https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198013/eye-beam will allow you to catch your foe with the very tip of the beam, just be quick, otherwise your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat takes you too far out for the beam to reach its target. Another good combo is the back & forth of https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat into https://www.wowhead.com/spell=195072/fel-rush with ample time between the two to allow whatever enemy's CD you're trying to dodge to expire.

Utility
Don't forget to use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=278326/consume-magic on any juicy buffs the foe might heavily rely on. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=183752/disrupt is your 3 second melee interrupt on a 15 second CD. Use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=185245/torment to keep stealth classes in combat.

Asylum · Sep 11, 2021

Conclusion
[Under Construction - Pending Misc. Section]

I am going to periodically change/add things to this guide & edit format for easier digestion. Just wanted to get it out as there seems to be growing interest in the class.

I welcome any discussion, especially the kind that can improve it.

Happy Demon Hunting!

ohti · Sep 11, 2021

Bout time!

Peer · Sep 12, 2021

this guide is awesome, ty king

Djtsgx134 · Sep 12, 2021

Love it my good friend awesome guide. i couldnt have put a better one together myself your defiantly the DH king!

Lateraldrop · Sep 12, 2021

Ive done it all wrong! looks like i need to remake my DH, i didn't even know blur and misery were available -_-

Asylum · Sep 12, 2021

Lateraldrop said:
Ive done it all wrong! looks like i need to remake my DH, i didn't even know blur and misery were available -_-

you're getting this pain and suffering thing down. you'll make a fine DH.

Kakakaka · Sep 12, 2021

So the main thing I want to add to this guide is the current 'meta' that was developed for DHs in wargames as an FC. So originally we used illidan's grasp in order to help mid and deal with players alone, and this did have its moments. However, as an FC, DH has the very big downside of not having stealth. Thus, the adaptation to run Demonic Trample was found (Dizzen was the pioneer I believe). Effectively, trample temporarily makes the DH immune to slows (maybe roots, I haven't played 20s in a while tbh), move faster than a mount, and stun enemies it runs through for 1s. The point was that it allowed for a DH to much more easily secure the pick and avoid dying before it touched a flag.

Overall, this allowed for the DH to play around its team, rather than the team playing around its DH, making the game much easier. By no means did this make DH a better FC than rdruid, but this is the most optimal way to play in Warsong Gulch as an FC DH. I would consider it a standard to run Trample in flag maps; however, PUGs have differing compositions and therefore if you can analyze the games well enough- then perhaps trample isn't needed and you can opt for grasp to help your allies or secure kills.

Also, something I think was missed in regards to Havoc honor talents is that Chaotic Imprint actually increases your Chaos damage spells by 10% (Chaos Strike, Eye Beam). This is because chaos damage is of every casting school, and the talent will increase one of said types of schools and therefore affects the chaos spells. I would run this at any point you don't need the MS talent- or permanently for bigger flashier numbers (if you can get those).

I should really figure out how to imbed spell tooltips.

Leek · Sep 12, 2021

Also if i may ask what are these ilvl25 weps with sockets, and how do they do against claw of the watcher with 2x 3 agi gems?

Asylum · Sep 12, 2021

Leek said:
Also if i may ask what are these ilvl25 weps with sockets, and how do they do against claw of the watcher with 2x 3 agi gems?

you loot them in BfA zones on a lvl 22 or lvl 23 farmer toon.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=27846/claw-of-the-watcher?bonus=6710 with two +3 gems = 9 AGI, 5 crit
ilvl 25 green BoE with one +3 gem = 6 AGI, 5 STAM, 6-7 secondaries

here's an example armory:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/kelthuzad/wargamehero

ivo922 · Sep 12, 2021

A tip: jump + glide is faster than pressing jump 3 times.

Asylum · Sep 12, 2021

ivo922 said:
A tip: jump + glide is faster than pressing jump 3 times.

ah-ha! but if you press jump a 4th time you cancel the glide and propel yourself forward at falling speed.

Nilin · Sep 12, 2021

Wow Andre, this guide is amazing.
I'm pretty sure you already started this guide a long time ago because of how well it describes pretty much all there is to say for a DH and we all know how much passion you have for this class.
But sadly it only really taught me that all decisions I make are wrong:

being a vet with gametime (this makes it impossible to not level above 20 if you want to get the rare items in your starting zone)
picking Altrius
obtain HoA before questing through BfA
after the starting campaign I did quests (mainly in Legion) with interesting rewards to level so those items were scaling to the wrong level
try to twink at lvl 19 first before i realized that this bracket is dead. Many items I farmed are missing 1-2 stats if they didn't proc epic
using mostly Aurora gear as Havoc (?)
..and many more..

I have a few things to say that may be ~~wrong~~ ~~missing~~ informative.

Andre said:
Mastery raises the Chaos Damage for https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198013/eye-beam ...

Eye beam can and will be interrupted as that is happening to me very often.
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344865/fel-rush doesn't really do much damage.
So mastery will "only" boost your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike and the Meta-version of it.
Which isn't bad but you have many other abilities that doesn't benefit from this stat.

Andre said:
...you generally want more haste as Havoc.

Secondary Stat priority for green BoEs is Harmonious > Peerless > Feverflare (in descending order)

Neither Harmonious nor Peerless is giving haste, so maybe those two are on a par with Feverflare (and Aurora).

Aurora gear is pretty solid imho, especially if your build relies on procs.
The combination of Haste + Vers is just too good to not mention it.
It also helps https://www.wowhead.com/spell=232893/felblade (a really good gap closer) in both ways: Damage increase and Cooldown reduction. I couldn't think of playing without this talent.
Also really good if you want to play both specs without farming different gearsets.

Andre said:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=27737/moonglade-shoulders? / https://www.wowhead.com/item=27417/ravenwing-pauldrons?bonus=6710

Question: Why does no one uses https://www.wowhead.com/item=27434/mantle-of-perenolde?bonus=6710 ?
+7 Haste +7 Crit = 14 (+1 dodge) secondary stats compared to 8 from Ravenwing and 9 from Moonglade.
Is crit really a worthless stat? But if so why using Moonglade Shoulders?

I like your weapon choices. I really love the Artifact nerf because now there are many more weapons that became very interesting.
Also https://www.wowhead.com/item=160269/soulrending-claw?bonus=6516 can proc with a socket + tertiary and are really easy to farm and only miss 1 secondary stat (and the option to choose your stats) compared to the ilvl 25 BoEs.
Also with the newly discovered items scaling to ilvl 25 from WoD rares there might be some more weapons to pick since (at least) the Apexis-rares can also proc a socket + tertiary (and maybe warfroge and/or proc epic but I'm not sure about that). I didn't search for weapons that are farmable for us from Apexis-rares yet. Maybe someone already found some.

Andre said:
Havoc's https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis is a great opener!
...it has a built-in gap closer & it stuns.

Don't forget, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis only daze in PvP on impact.
And I also use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=235893/demonic-origins sometimes because often the fight ends too early and you still have Meta up for a long time without an enemy nearby or you get focused and die within the first seconds.
This making a 5min CD hurt if you can't use it long enough.
I still like the other PvP Talents more tho.

Andre said:
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur is your Defensive 1min CD for Havoc.

Do you think a GM will give me https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery if i ask nicely?
And maybe someone can help me find the right words to achieve it.
Even with all bad decisions i made, creating a new DH isn't an option for me.

Andre said:
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat is generally there to get out of the thick of it if tanking damage or self-healing are not an option, but also pairs well with other abilities for control of the fight.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat is also pretty good to get momentum for your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide.
If you use it first and use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide or pressing Space in the right moment you will gain a much higher glidespeed, similar to a https://www.wowhead.com/item=109076/goblin-glider-kit.
This needs a bit of practice and I still mess it up sometimes but if you time it correctly you can even get this highspeed-glide while carrying the flag (tho with the flag this is much harder to achieve).

This post took me a really long time to write and I may messed up something.
I'm also thankful for every reply that corrects me, either in my sentense building/wording and/or my mindset of things i wrote and are completely wrong (like my antipathy towards mastery?)

This is my first (long) post ever where i use links and quotes and stuff.
So if i messed something up I'm really sorry.

TLDR;
Andre is amazing, thank you for this guide
DH is a really cool class
I made bad decisions
I really miss https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery T-T

Fael · Sep 12, 2021

Nilin said:
Wow Andre, this guide is amazing.
I'm pretty sure you already started this guide a long time ago because of how well it describes pretty much all there is to say for a DH and we all know how much passion you have for this class.
But sadly it only really taught me that all decisions I make are wrong:

being a vet with gametime (this makes it impossible to not level above 20 if you want to get the rare items in your starting zone)

picking Altrius

obtain HoA before questing through BfA

after the starting campaign I did quests (mainly in Legion) with interesting rewards to level so those items were scaling to the wrong level

try to twink at lvl 19 first before i realized that this bracket is dead. Many items I farmed are missing 1-2 stats if they didn't proc epic

using mostly Aurora gear as Havoc (?)

..and many more..

I have a few things to say that may be ~~wrong~~ ~~missing~~ informative.

Eye beam can and will be interrupted as that is happening to me very often.
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344865/fel-rush doesn't really do much damage.
So mastery will "only" boost your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike and the Meta-version of it.
Which isn't bad but you have many other abilities that doesn't benefit from this stat.

Neither Harmonious nor Peerless is giving haste, so maybe those two are on a par with Feverflare (and Aurora).

Aurora gear is pretty solid imho, especially if your build relies on procs.
The combination of Haste + Vers is just too good to not mention it.
It also helps https://www.wowhead.com/spell=232893/felblade (a really good gap closer) in both ways: Damage increase and Cooldown reduction. I couldn't think of playing without this talent.
Also really good if you want to play both specs without farming different gearsets.

Question: Why does no one uses https://www.wowhead.com/item=27434/mantle-of-perenolde?bonus=6710 ?
+7 Haste +7 Crit = 14 (+1 dodge) secondary stats compared to 8 from Ravenwing and 9 from Moonglade.
Is crit really a worthless stat? But if so why using Moonglade Shoulders?

I like your weapon choices. I really love the Artifact nerf because now there are many more weapons that became very interesting.
Also https://www.wowhead.com/item=160269/soulrending-claw?bonus=6516 can proc with a socket + tertiary and are really easy to farm and only miss 1 secondary stat (and the option to choose your stats) compared to the ilvl 25 BoEs.
Also with the newly discovered items scaling to ilvl 25 from WoD rares there might be some more weapons to pick since (at least) the Apexis-rares can also proc a socket + tertiary (and maybe warfroge and/or proc epic but I'm not sure about that). I didn't search for weapons that are farmable for us from Apexis-rares yet. Maybe someone already found some.

Don't forget, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis only daze in PvP on impact.
And I also use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=235893/demonic-origins sometimes because often the fight ends too early and you still have Meta up for a long time without an enemy nearby or you get focused and die within the first seconds.
This making a 5min CD hurt if you can't use it long enough.
I still like the other PvP Talents more tho.

Do you think a GM will give me https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery if i ask nicely?
And maybe someone can help me find the right words to achieve it.
Even with all bad decisions i made, creating a new DH isn't an option for me.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat is also pretty good to get momentum for your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide.
If you use it first and use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide or pressing Space in the right moment you will gain a much higher glidespeed, similar to a https://www.wowhead.com/item=109076/goblin-glider-kit.
This needs a bit of practice and I still mess it up sometimes but if you time it correctly you can even get this highspeed-glide while carrying the flag (tho with the flag this is much harder to achieve).

This post took me a really long time to write and I may messed up something.
I'm also thankful for every reply that corrects me, either in my sentense building/wording and/or my mindset of things i wrote and are completely wrong (like my antipathy towards mastery?)

This is my first (long) post ever where i use links and quotes and stuff.
So if i messed something up I'm really sorry.

TLDR;
Andre is amazing, thank you for this guide
DH is a really cool class
I made bad decisions
I really miss https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery T-T

Sounds like you need to make a new dh

pokspell · Sep 12, 2021

Good Guide! Sad that I choose Altrius instead of Kayn!

Asylum · Sep 12, 2021

Nilin said:
Eye beam can and will be interrupted as that is happening to me very often.
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=344865/fel-rush doesn't really do much damage.
So mastery will "only" boost your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=162794/chaos-strike and the Meta-version of it.
Which isn't bad but you have many other abilities that doesn't benefit from this stat.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=320413/chaos-strike is used so often that it honestly justifies mastery. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198013/eye-beam can be saved until you know your opponent has no interrupt.

Nilin said:
Neither Harmonious nor Peerless is giving haste, so maybe those two are on a par with Feverflare (and Aurora).

Me mentioning haste was just an aside of how i feel about that particular secondary for the spec. A Peerless & Harmonious mix is perfectly viable without focusing on haste at all. Wasn't trying to claim Harmo & Peer had haste.

Nilin said:
Question: Why does no one uses https://www.wowhead.com/item=27434/mantle-of-perenolde?bonus=6710 ?
+7 Haste +7 Crit = 14 (+1 dodge) secondary stats compared to 8 from Ravenwing and 9 from Moonglade.
Is crit really a worthless stat? But if so why using Moonglade Shoulders?

They pick them for the vers, as a leather armor brawler you want as much mitigation as you can juice out of your set, vers just so happens to also boost damage.

Nilin said:
I like your weapon choices. I really love the Artifact nerf because now there are many more weapons that became very interesting.
Also https://www.wowhead.com/item=160269/soulrending-claw?bonus=6516 can proc with a socket + tertiary and are really easy to farm and only miss 1 secondary stat (and the option to choose your stats) compared to the ilvl 25 BoEs.
Also with the newly discovered items scaling to ilvl 25 from WoD rares there might be some more weapons to pick since (at least) the Apexis-rares can also proc a socket + tertiary (and maybe warfroge and/or proc epic but I'm not sure about that). I didn't search for weapons that are farmable for us from Apexis-rares yet. Maybe someone already found some.

I'll add https://www.wowhead.com/item=160269/soulrending-claw?bonus=6516 to the list. Forgot about that one, thanks!
As far as WoD Apexis rares: haven't looked into it too much, was under the impression all socket & tert procs were gated behind the expansion level ceiling of 40.

Nilin said:
Don't forget, https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191427/metamorphosis only daze in PvP on impact.
And I also use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=235893/demonic-origins sometimes because often the fight ends too early and you still have Meta up for a long time without an enemy nearby or you get focused and die within the first seconds.
This making a 5min CD hurt if you can't use it long enough.
I still like the other PvP Talents more tho.

Yeah, not sure how I missed the dazed part, must have just copy-pasted from WoWhead or something and forgot to alter for PvP. Thanks, changed it.

Nilin said:
Do you think a GM will give me https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery if i ask nicely?
And maybe someone can help me find the right words to achieve it.
Even with all bad decisions i made, creating a new DH isn't an option for me.

I have not had luck, and based on how cagey & bot-like the responses have been for me, I suspect it's not something a support grunt can just do on their own. I think our best bet is to convince the developers that whatever excuse the GM are giving us are incorrect by submitting bugs on PTR and on live servers.

They have claimed the two abilities in question are lvl 21 req, but that sounds like bullshit. I am going to make a leveling DH, pick Altrius and get to 21 to see if in fact we get those 2 abilities added to the skillbook. I suspect they don't which gives us a foot to stand on for demanding a fix. Avoiding the "just level through it" argument is easy if we're locked out of those skills until some later level grants them via rank 2 (level 33 for https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur)

Nilin said:
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198793/vengeful-retreat is also pretty good to get momentum for your https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide.
If you use it first and use https://www.wowhead.com/spell=131347/glide or pressing Space in the right moment you will gain a much higher glidespeed, similar to a https://www.wowhead.com/item=109076/goblin-glider-kit.
This needs a bit of practice and I still mess it up sometimes but if you time it correctly you can even get this highspeed-glide while carrying the flag (tho with the flag this is much harder to achieve).

I'll add this bit when I revisit the Combat Section. That's my least favorite layout right now, and I am desperately thinking of a way to motivate myself to edit it.
:monkaLaugh:

Nilin said:
This post took me a really long time to write and I may messed up something.
I'm also thankful for every reply that corrects me, either in my sentense building/wording and/or my mindset of things i wrote and are completely wrong (like my antipathy towards mastery?)

This is my first (long) post ever where i use links and quotes and stuff.
So if i messed something up I'm really sorry.

TLDR;
Andre is amazing, thank you for this guide
DH is a really cool class
I made bad decisions
I really miss https://www.wowhead.com/spell=198589/blur and https://www.wowhead.com/spell=207684/sigil-of-misery T-T

Appreciate your time & your dedication to DH. This is exactly the kind of engagement I was looking for.
:KKomrade:

Submit bugs, and hopefully we can get everyone's botched DH fixed in the future.
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Kakakaka said:
So the main thing I want to add to this guide is the current 'meta' that was developed for DHs in wargames as an FC. So originally we used illidan's grasp in order to help mid and deal with players alone, and this did have its moments. However, as an FC, DH has the very big downside of not having stealth. Thus, the adaptation to run Demonic Trample was found (Dizzen was the pioneer I believe). Effectively, trample temporarily makes the DH immune to slows (maybe roots, I haven't played 20s in a while tbh), move faster than a mount, and stun enemies it runs through for 1s. The point was that it allowed for a DH to much more easily secure the pick and avoid dying before it touched a flag.

Overall, this allowed for the DH to play around its team, rather than the team playing around its DH, making the game much easier. By no means did this make DH a better FC than rdruid, but this is the most optimal way to play in Warsong Gulch as an FC DH. I would consider it a standard to run Trample in flag maps; however, PUGs have differing compositions and therefore if you can analyze the games well enough- then perhaps trample isn't needed and you can opt for grasp to help your allies or secure kills.

Also, something I think was missed in regards to Havoc honor talents is that Chaotic Imprint actually increases your Chaos damage spells by 10% (Chaos Strike, Eye Beam). This is because chaos damage is of every casting school, and the talent will increase one of said types of schools and therefore affects the chaos spells. I would run this at any point you don't need the MS talent- or permanently for bigger flashier numbers (if you can get those).

I should really figure out how to imbed spell tooltips.

I will also add all these great findings when I revisit the Combat/Strategy Section. Thanks for your input, always appreciated.

20s DH Guide (Shadowlands)

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