10-19 2015 TC Discussion, Planning, Indiegogo

Would you prefer a community stream or Gamers-League stream?

  • Community Stream

    Votes: 102 55.7%

  • Gamers-League

    Votes: 81 44.3%
  • Total voters
    183
how about you can use ferals but no ferocious bite there no 1 shots and if someone is deadset on playing feral they can do it.
 
Myrm said:
Why not force everyone to use the exact same comp so that no one has to make hard choices?
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I'm all down for creativity and hard choices with comp setup Myrm. But certain things will ruin this tournament in their current state. I don't understand how you think allowing BM at 2 is fine, they were one of the first problems the bracket had war gaming over Christmas break.

If you allow a feral, teams will turtle until stacks and send the feral/rogue every game. People complained about us turtling with 5 minutes to go last cup, what do you think they will say when every game is a 15 min turtle? This twink cup has the potential to be great but allowing stupid gimped classes will ruin the tournament for all and reward one shotting, which is the very same stigma that outsiders have of twinks to this day.
 
Community leaders is the problem here. You're no community leader. You don't speak for anyone but your team. Literally don't speak for anyone else. The days of people like HB manipulating rule sets to protect the illusion that they're great are over. I don't care if you think you get to make the rules - you don't. For anything, ever. Except for private wargames where you either refuse to play if they don't cater to your whims or else where other team gives in because they feel like it. I'm certainly not saying I get to make them either - just making sure that your days of manipulating them are over.

People seem to think that I'm advocating for the wild Wild West - I'm not really. I do think reasonable limits are fine. But I've witnessed this bracket devolve to a big muffle fight and everyone screaming that's the meta as if their idea of how it should be played defines how others should do it. And simply put, people are trying to protect that status quo. Not by simply winning with it, but by forcing people to play it by creating rules that ban everything that makes it less effective.

Myrms approach that more openness is better is the right approach. Maybe as we get closer to the tourny that requires nibbling around the edges. But his approach of opening it up rather than letting self declared community leaders determine what rules they want to increase the chances they do well is the correct one. There's a ton of elitism in this bracket and there's gonna be some bubbles bursted if we don't allow those people to force the rest of us to play their game.

EDIT: posted in response to HB claiming the community leaders determined best rules.
 
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I would also like to point out that limiting a BM to 1 will further promote difficult choices and creativity in comp setup. If you allow 2, every team will have to run 2, there's no debating that. By limiting it to 1 you force teams to decide if they want a lock, sham, mage, etc with that slot. It will only allow for more variety and less gimpy games.
 
Here's a thought - why dont people actually try the rules that Myrms suggesting rather than theory crafting how it's a choice between middle fight and roof turtle - when in reality things are not nearly that black and white.

Lol at HB threatening to pull team out over rules.

Everyone should probably take a couple day break at least on discussing - too much emotion right now. I'll admit the thought of people that think they're better at the game thinking that means they get to make the rules sets me off.

EDIT: this is why there effectively weren't any rules back in the day - both because we weren't carebears so dealt with it and because nobody would have just agreed to someone else's ideas of how to play.

Of course it should be added that manipulative crybabies lobbying blizzard for such a huge stack count and a freaking speed debuff is why we're even having this conversation in the first place. If stacks capped at 10 with no speed buff would be moot.
 
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In regard to banning double specs, did someone both say double mw is unfair in a thread where everyone assumed they'd run 2 bm's? Allowing one BM effectively bans two mw, unless a team drops the BM in which case maybe they know something you don't.
 
rusks said:
what if we limit tank specs to 1?
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That effectively will make sure no BM plays and I don't agree with that. Technically if you wanted a limit to tank specs you could make it 2 and that would eliminate the double BM problem.
 
Not shocked myt likes these rules. With these rules he has a +.0000000000000000001 percent chance of winning the twink cup.
 
rusks said:
2x bm restodruid fc lol
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no team in their right mind would do that. Either way I think just limiting BM to 1 is the easy and obvious fix for an overall better tournament. As I said earlier, it will allow more diversity in comps and I believe that's what everybody wants, no?
 
lowkey guys double bm double warrior double feral or w/e is actually reallllly bad,

but hey what do I know,

guardian druids and rogues were looked down upon when I made a 19 :^)
 
Superslam said:
lowkey guys double bm double warrior double feral or w/e is actually reallllly bad,

but hey what do I know,

guardian druids and rogues were looked down upon when I made a 19 :^)
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Read between the lines - lots of alarmist rhetoric. Let them run double arms or even (lol) double rogue. Theory craft fails.
 
MYT said:
Community leaders is the problem here. You're no community leader. You don't speak for anyone but your team. Literally don't speak for anyone else. The days of people like HB manipulating rule sets to protect the illusion that they're great are over. I don't care if you think you get to make the rules - you don't. For anything, ever. Except for private wargames where you either refuse to play if they don't cater to your whims or else where other team gives in because they feel like it. I'm certainly not saying I get to make them either - just making sure that your days of manipulating them are over.

People seem to think that I'm advocating for the wild Wild West - I'm not really. I do think reasonable limits are fine. But I've witnessed this bracket devolve to a big muffle fight and everyone screaming that's the meta as if their idea of how it should be played defines how others should do it. And simply put, people are trying to protect that status quo. Not by simply winning with it, but by forcing people to play it by creating rules that ban everything that makes it less effective.

Myrms approach that more openness is better is the right approach. Maybe as we get closer to the tourny that requires nibbling around the edges. But his approach of opening it up rather than letting self declared community leaders determine what rules they want to increase the chances they do well is the correct one. There's a ton of elitism in this bracket and there's gonna be some bubbles bursted if we don't allow those people to force the rest of us to play their game.

EDIT: posted in response to HB claiming the community leaders determined best rules.
Click to expand...

The only other players in the bracket that come on par to the amount of effort I put into the 19 bracket is Pizza Conq and Myrm. I am personally offended that you went to the lengths to try to shoot me down publicly when you are so fucking oblivious to the Inordinate amount of effort I do as a leader of 19s to keep this bracket alive, healthy, and preparing for the Twink Cup. You are a fucking disgrace, honestly. I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt sometimes, then you just come out of the blue to shoot everything I stand for down. The only 2 Leaders in the Bracket that are currently leading a team in the Twink Cup that have the best overall understanding of the 19 Warsong Gulch meta is Pizza and Myself. Ignoring our advice on the matter of comp regulations in this game would be comparable to hiring 2 pilots for your personal plane and having them sit in the back, expecting the fucking plane not to crash.
 
Hunnybuns19 said:
The only other players in the bracket that come on par to the amount of effort I put into the 19 bracket is Pizza Conq and Myrm. I am personally offended that you went to the lengths to try to shoot me down publicly when you are so fucking oblivious to the Inordinate amount of effort I do as a leader of 19s to keep this bracket alive, healthy, and preparing for the Twink Cup. You are a fucking disgrace, honestly. I really try to give you the benefit of the doubt sometimes, then you just come out of the blue to shoot everything I stand for down. The only 2 Leaders in the Bracket that are currently leading a team in the Twink Cup that have the best overall understanding of the 19 Warsong Gulch meta is Pizza and Myself. Ignoring our advice on the matter of comp regulations in this game would be comparable to hiring 2 pilots for your personal plane and having them sit in the back, expecting the fucking plane not to crash.
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HB has the right of this. The amount of effort community leaders put into growing and caring for this community can really only be understood by those in there inner circles, and there is no substitute for experience in regards to the rules. You don't become a community leader over night. MYT No offense dude but your way off base here, or you just have a skewed understanding of what a community leader is and does, because if you had a proper understanding than you'd probably respect the passion and effort we have put into making this bracket exist and continue too exist, I thought as an older player you might understand that. Community leaders don't make the rules, people listen to us because they make sense.

Calling @Hunneybuns19 an elitist is a joke, hes the most modest pro wow player I've probably ever met.
 
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