Separate f2p/veteran forums discussion

I can't believe this thread is still going on. But hey! It's given me something to read on my down time during work.

But to say Veteran Accounts don't belong in the Level Twenty thread is kinda dumb..
 
The Saint said:
How would that benefit your community? Honestly I'm interested. If it benefits F2Ps in any way I think it should be implemented. If it's just being petty to those "mean ol' vets", then I think it's a bit of a cheek asking admins and mods to indulge you.
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You might of missed it but I rather not retype every point made in this thread.


Yde said:
Potential losses incurred in case of change:


Disadvantages for people interested in both Vet and F2P:
Have to read two subforums.

Disadvantages due to same level:
Choosing where to post or keep threads that could belong to both sections, anything relevant to gear. This is the biggest disadvantage in my opinion.

Psychological Disadvantages:
Loss of sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :(
People playing Vets feeling excluded and alone. :(



Potential gains:


Advantages for people only interested in Vet things:
Have a place that showcases the many fun things veterans are discovering now. With current activity this is pretty much the status quo, so no real advantage here.

Advantages for people only interested in F2P things:

  • Have one place that efficiently displays threads relevant to the account type and its limitations.
  • Regardless of actual F2P or restricted because of interest in playing with restriction.
  • Which the current tag system is unable to do because I cannot select: hey vBulletin old buddy old pal please display [Starter] and [All] and also untagged threads if poster didn't bother, if it's relevant to F2P and also [US] and [EU] if that was important to the one posting the thread, k? Yay thanks.
  • Have one place where F2P limits and events can be discussed and the threads aren't bumped into oblivion. I'm glad to see the many fun things veterans are discovering now, it truly is great. :) But it naturally produces content much quicker than F2P where things are tried and tested.
  • If planned events stay on the first page this gives the people interested in the challenge a chance to see them. There's enough old characters around, people could reactivate them if they're interested.


Advantages for people interested in both:
Things are sorted better.

Psychological Advantages:
Regain a currently lost sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :)



Things that may make the disadvantages insignificant:


  • Make a decision on where the front page for 20 twinking is. This will probably be Vet / full enchanted P2P. Put / Leave the important threads on gear there. Other sections can duplicate or link to them easily.
  • Put other stuff from the time where there were no Vets into F2P section. If it gets bumped, like parkour, anyone can post in it, since it was a community thing and there's no level requirement at all. If someone rightly thinks it's awesome and wants it in the Vet / 19s / 70s section, they can link it there.
  • This is a forum. It's like a box of folders in your office, you can stuff everything into one folder because you think it's all interesting to you, but your accountant who's only interested in part of it may be annoyed, or you can sort your stuff into different folders. Maybe you end up deciding you'd prefer not to do that because you don't like folders, and that is fine too. Either way you can read everything in the box. Everyone can read and post everywhere in this forum if the topic interests them and no-one should ever feel sad and alone. :)
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How is this discussion still going on? why u do u ppl even care how a bloody website is arranged. if u lot even gave a shit about twinking and keeping f2p alive, you'd try to fix the most important and only problem which is ingame.
 
Trialmop said:
Well I do agree somewhat, The Vets are enforcing their will on F2Ps by even being here. This was the F2P section , the soul and heart and now its overrun with this other stuff. If F2Ps want their own section they should be granted the section it took them years to build. Its like a tribe is forced to live with a group of people and share their homeland and when they want to be separate from the intruders they are told you have leave your homeland instead of the people that intruded upon your homeland. Not really that fair or reasonable. If the decision was F2Ps should have their own section F2Ps would get their section back and as a result only one additional section would need to be made rather than 2.
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Listen to me because this is the last time I'm going to say this. The few people who are still hanging on to F2P are not the ones who spent years building that content. THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY built that content, and because the majority of that community now has graduated to Veteran, if anything it belongs to them more than it belongs to the minority who are still playing F2P.

Times change, the game evolves, and the vast majority of the COMMUNITY, who used to all play F2P because that was the only option, has evolved with the times and is now playing Veterans. The fact that a few of you have chosen not to make that change does not mean that you have sole claim to the content that was created back before the evolution just because you happen to wear the same label that everyone else wore back then. I have repeated this at least ten times in this thread already and I'm not going to say it again. The remaining minority of F2Ps do not have any exclusive claim to the content that was built by the entire community.

Your continuing to press this issue makes me suspect your initial motivations for wanting a split in the first place. While it was claimed that the aim was to make it easier to locate F2P-specific content, your insistence on pressing this issue after I've told you to stop multiple times leads me to believe that your true intention is to shove the Veterans out of the forum that you feel exclusively entitled to, even though by your own admission you are now the vast minority in the community. It's not going to happen and if you keep pushing this issue even after we've been willing to consider a change, then you're going to jeopardize the entire affair. If your true goal is to shove everyone out of the community but your minority group, and keep all the work that all those majority people helped to build, then your entire claim here is underhanded and we're not going to continue considering it at all.
 
ßurg said:
I can't believe this thread is still going on. But hey! It's given me something to read on my down time during work.

But to say Veteran Accounts don't belong in the Level Twenty thread is kinda dumb..
Click to expand...

We were speculating of how separation(If this even happened) would work as this is really the F2P twinking section with added Vet threads. Maybe 96% of it is F2P 1%? 3% Vet due to the recent change in format but other wise its still the same forum it was before mostly.
 
Kincaide said:
Listen to me because this is the last time I'm going to say this. The few people who are still hanging on to F2P are not the ones who spent years building that content. THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY built that content, and because the majority of that community now has graduated to Veteran, if anything it belongs to them more than it belongs to the minority who are still playing F2P.

Times change, the game evolves, and the vast majority of the COMMUNITY, who used to all play F2P because that was the only option, has evolved with the times and is now playing Veterans. The fact that a few of you have chosen not to make that change does not mean that you have sole claim to the content that was created back before the evolution just because you happen to wear the same label that everyone else wore back then. I have repeated this at least ten times in this thread already and I'm not going to say it again. The remaining minority of F2Ps do not have any exclusive claim to the content that was built by the entire community.

Your continuing to press this issue makes me suspect your initial motivations for wanting a split in the first place. While it was claimed that the aim was to make it easier to locate F2P-specific content, your insistence on pressing this issue after I've told you to stop multiple times leads me to believe that your true intention is to shove the Veterans out of the forum that you feel exclusively entitled to, even though by your own admission you are now the vast minority in the community. It's not going to happen and if you keep pushing this issue even after we've been willing to consider a change, then you're going to jeopardize the entire affair. If your true goal is to shove everyone out of the community but your minority group, and keep all the work that all those majority people helped to build, then your entire claim here is underhanded and we're not going to continue considering it at all.
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Its not a issue for me its just what your talking about so I responded for the mean while. As I stated before id be happy with even a clean forum. I don't need to repeat myself I was just interested in seeing what you would say in response to me replying to your interesting scenarios as its all just speculation until a decision is made anyway. You don't need to speculate what I want I have stated it clearly and if it takes what Yde said about sorting for F2P and Vet im cool with that. I also never said we are in the vast minority lol(I only agree with very little points you make).
 
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Trialmop said:
You might of missed it but I rather not retype every point made in this thread.
Click to expand...

So there isn't any real benefit to your community. All i see is less clicks for a few people. And ...

Yde said:

Psychological Advantages:
Regain a currently lost sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :)
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that don't even make sense. Wanting a feeling of belonging, but asking to be separated from all the other users of the bracket o_O
 
The Saint said:
So there isn't any real benefit to your community. All i see is less clicks for a few people. And ...



that don't even make sense. Wanting a feeling of belonging, but asking to be separated from all the other users of the bracket o_O
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ehh Thread is really getting old same questions circling. So far this puts it best and this will be last time I post it. ill just refer to it as Yde's summary in the future.

Yde said:
Potential losses incurred in case of change:


Disadvantages for people interested in both Vet and F2P:
Have to read two subforums.

Disadvantages due to same level:
Choosing where to post or keep threads that could belong to both sections, anything relevant to gear. This is the biggest disadvantage in my opinion.

Psychological Disadvantages:
Loss of sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :(
People playing Vets feeling excluded and alone. :(



Potential gains:


Advantages for people only interested in Vet things:
Have a place that showcases the many fun things veterans are discovering now. With current activity this is pretty much the status quo, so no real advantage here.

Advantages for people only interested in F2P things:

  • Have one place that efficiently displays threads relevant to the account type and its limitations.
  • Regardless of actual F2P or restricted because of interest in playing with restriction.
  • Which the current tag system is unable to do because I cannot select: hey vBulletin old buddy old pal please display [Starter] and [All] and also untagged threads if poster didn't bother, if it's relevant to F2P and also [US] and [EU] if that was important to the one posting the thread, k? Yay thanks.
  • Have one place where F2P limits and events can be discussed and the threads aren't bumped into oblivion. I'm glad to see the many fun things veterans are discovering now, it truly is great. :) But it naturally produces content much quicker than F2P where things are tried and tested.
  • If planned events stay on the first page this gives the people interested in the challenge a chance to see them. There's enough old characters around, people could reactivate them if they're interested.


Advantages for people interested in both:
Things are sorted better.

Psychological Advantages:
Regain a currently lost sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :)



Things that may make the disadvantages insignificant:


  • Make a decision on where the front page for 20 twinking is. This will probably be Vet / full enchanted P2P. Put / Leave the important threads on gear there. Other sections can duplicate or link to them easily.
  • Put other stuff from the time where there were no Vets into F2P section. If it gets bumped, like parkour, anyone can post in it, since it was a community thing and there's no level requirement at all. If someone rightly thinks it's awesome and wants it in the Vet / 19s / 70s section, they can link it there.
  • This is a forum. It's like a box of folders in your office, you can stuff everything into one folder because you think it's all interesting to you, but your accountant who's only interested in part of it may be annoyed, or you can sort your stuff into different folders. Maybe you end up deciding you'd prefer not to do that because you don't like folders, and that is fine too. Either way you can read everything in the box. Everyone can read and post everywhere in this forum if the topic interests them and no-one should ever feel sad and alone. :)
Click to expand...
 
I had asked Shane a few months ago to add more thread tags that allowed more specifics like EU Starter or US All, but he didn't feel at that time like the benefits outweighed the potential confusion. I believe the specific tags I recommended were:

US Starter
US Veteran
US All
EU Starter
EU Veteran
EU All
All Starter
All Veteran
All/All (we could come up with a better name such as "Bracket-wide"

It's possible that Myrm will be more receptive to making these tags, and in addition I think he has more coding knowledge to where we could have what I always wanted, which was two pulldowns, one where you choose your region (US/EU/All) and one where you choose your audience (Starter/Veteran/All).

I honestly personally think that it would be unhealthy to separate anyone from anyone. We are one community, made of slightly different account types, but our similarities far outweigh our differences and that was the reason the majority voted to stay together last time. If implementing a better tag system alone would alleviate the problem of finding the content you wanted, then that would be an easier solution to implement than tearing the community into pieces.
 
Trialmop said:
ehh Thread is really getting old same questions circling. So far this puts it best and this will be last time I post it. ill just refer to it as Yde's summary in the future.
Click to expand...

Look...

Potential gains:


Advantages for people only interested in Vet things:
Have a place that showcases the many fun things veterans are discovering now. With current activity this is pretty much the status quo, so no real advantage here.
Click to expand...


No community advantage here.

Advantages for people only interested in F2P things:

  • Have one place that efficiently displays threads relevant to the account type and its limitations.
  • Regardless of actual F2P or restricted because of interest in playing with restriction.
  • Which the current tag system is unable to do because I cannot select: hey vBulletin old buddy old pal please display [Starter] and [All] and also untagged threads if poster didn't bother, if it's relevant to F2P and also [US] and [EU] if that was important to the one posting the thread, k? Yay thanks.
  • Have one place where F2P limits and events can be discussed and the threads aren't bumped into oblivion. I'm glad to see the many fun things veterans are discovering now, it truly is great. :) But it naturally produces content much quicker than F2P where things are tried and tested.
  • If planned events stay on the first page this gives the people interested in the challenge a chance to see them. There's enough old characters around, people could reactivate them if they're interested.


Advantages for people interested in both:
Things are sorted better.
Click to expand...


They have tags for this.

Psychological Advantages:
Regain a currently lost sense of legitimacy and belonging in the bracket for F2P. :)
Click to expand...

No sense

The only reason I'm commenting, is because it's my belief you're trying to push vets out for no more than your own pettyness. [MENTION=8138]Kincaide[/MENTION], as you covered though. GL
 
The Saint said:
Look...


[/COLOR]
No community advantage here.




They have tags for this.


No sense

The only reason I'm commenting, is because it's my belief you're trying to push vets out for no more than your own pettyness. [MENTION=8138]Kincaide[/MENTION], as you covered though. GL
Click to expand...

I don't feel the need to go over my or anyone else past arguments and debates or clarify things more than they already are at this points. What ever your view is on this issue will be your view. Its a wait and see thing now. These are reoccurring arguments and questions mostly now.
 
Trialmop said:
I don't feel the need to go over my or anyone else past arguments and debates or clarify things more than they already are at this points. What ever your view is on this issue will be your view. Its a wait and see thing now. These are reoccurring arguments and questions mostly now.
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you mean you have no rebuttal and there's absolutely no community advantage [not talking about browsing advantage] to your proposal. GL with your request anyway tho.
 
The Saint said:
you mean you have no rebuttal and there's absolutely no community advantage [not talking about browsing advantage] to your proposal. GL with your request anyway tho.
Click to expand...

I could type it in the biggest boldest font possible but it would just further draw out this thread that's basically done lol. I have already stated the answer to your question previously you are free to go and find it. Yde and others also have answered your questions, remember seek and thou shall find.

Thanks for the GL wish too btw :)
 
Trialmop said:
I could type it in the biggest boldest font possible but it would just further draw out this thread that's basically done lol. I have already stated the answer to your question previously you are free to go and find it. Yde and others also have answered your questions, remember seek and thou shall find.

Thanks for the GL wish too btw :)
Click to expand...

Yep, you're right. You've given a legit reason why this would better your community. Sorry I'm a little forgetful, could you link it for me please.
 
Kincaide said:
I had asked Shane a few months ago to add more thread tags that allowed more specifics like EU Starter or US All, but he didn't feel at that time like the benefits outweighed the potential confusion. I believe the specific tags I recommended were:

US Starter
US Veteran
US All
EU Starter
EU Veteran
EU All
All Starter
All Veteran
All/All (we could come up with a better name such as "Bracket-wide"

It's possible that Myrm will be more receptive to making these tags, and in addition I think he has more coding knowledge to where we could have what I always wanted, which was two pulldowns, one where you choose your region (US/EU/All) and one where you choose your audience (Starter/Veteran/All).

I honestly personally think that it would be unhealthy to separate anyone from anyone. We are one community, made of slightly different account types, but our similarities far outweigh our differences and that was the reason the majority voted to stay together last time. If implementing a better tag system alone would alleviate the problem of finding the content you wanted, then that would be an easier solution to implement than tearing the community into pieces.
Click to expand...

Pulldowns! Easy, done, happy, perfect. Includes everybody and streamlines viewing. I vote for this more than anything else I have seen proposed. 100% in favor of this.
 
I will say keep them together. We can all be in same BG together ( same bracket) so why should we split this up.
 
SPQR said:
by that logic 29s should be here aswell and oh boi do i pray for it to happen.
Click to expand...

Many standpoints have already been taken care of at this point. Glad to see most of us have just chilled out in waiting for the decision \.
 
General 20-29 bracket forum
- Sub forum/guide trial section
- Sub forum/guide vet section
- Sub forum/guide 29 section

Because it is the 20-29 bracket. Giving groups within a bracket a seperate place seems like the best and most logical idea. Splitting more and giving more main forums while it is sub play style is just giving more hostility and it is making all kind of groups. It is unhealthy for the bracket as a whole which I said before in the last discussion. Now you have this problem because you didn't take the best solution for all groups of players.

This is Twinkinfo so give the info in the best way you can per bracket and per sort of twink not wich group is the largest and giving it a main forum, change its name etc etc geesh this is only happening in the 20-29 bracket. Please.
 
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