[Level 20][Opinion] All Specs Mastery Rundown

[JadeFire]

You’re just wrong and also not good at the game I’ve seen your dk in action multiple times. No offense.

Same with your DH? Can't say that was impressive either... at all... even with pocket heals... Now is that because you are trash or just because DH is not S tier?

That is also just untrue. Now I'm sure you have been on some alliance pocket healed team while I got raped. But, that has nothing to do with anything else.

Claiming that crit does not let you do 130k+ is just you being stupid/lying to yoruself. I've done it multiple times, and my point is that's all DK does in pugs with out pocket heals... the point is not the damage output. Now running around and hitting things and doing average 60k with some haste/verse suit with some speed and the Runeblade spamming obliterate with a healer stuck to your nuts might be good in your book, to me that's just trash... because that's just the heals letting you do it, I know when I'm being pocket healed... some people don't see to be able to admit it.

And as I've posted many times, show me different, and I'll buy all your bullshit. I accepted with elemental shaman (even tho I'm still waiting on some non euro numbers).

 

[Kracks]

Same with your DH? Can't say that was impressive either... at all... even with pocket heals... Now is that because you are trash or just because DH is not S tier?

That is also just untrue. Now I'm sure you have been on some alliance pocket healed team while I got raped. But, that has nothing to do with anything else.

Claiming that crit does not let you do 130k+ is just you being stupid/lying to yoruself. I've done it multiple times, and my point is that's all DK does in pugs with out pocket heals... the point is not the damage output. Now running around and hitting things and doing average 60k with some haste/verse suit with some speed and the Runeblade spamming obliterate with a healer stuck to your nuts might be good in your book, to me that's just trash... because that's just the heals letting you do it, I know when I'm being pocket healed... some people don't see to be able to admit it.

And as I've posted many times, show me different, and I'll buy all the bullshit. I accepted with elemental shaman.

My point was I don’t think you’re a good player so I don’t care about your opinions at all. Have a good one!

 

[JadeFire]

My point was I don’t think you’re a good player so I don’t care about your opinions at all. Have a good one!

Well lucky for me Naxxrammer does just fine regardless of your need for validation. Good luck with those pocket heals.

*Arguing with weird children aside.*

Mastery on a Frost DK is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. Stacking Strength/Verse/haste (if you want to deal with haste) and just taking all Dungeon gem gear will give you more overall damage than not using those pieces and taking i28 Mastery gear anyway... because of gem stacking.

If you want to just hammer out an quick Auction House DK for 500k sure its not like some Haste/Mastery pile is gonna under perform like crazy or anything. You are just giving up Verse and Strength for Mastery and doing less damage... unlike other classes that might do more by stacking Mastery where it makes sense... it hurts you to do that on a Frost DK so I don't see how it could be more than 2/5.

 

[Chops]

But I'm purposely keeping my opinion open to change based on logic, good reasoning, and a bit of math.

If I may...

I'd posit that you need to demote Mastery for arms from a 4 to a 3. If I add 5 points of Mastery to my build, I get another 1.4% dmg. If I add 5 points of vers, I get 1.2%

It would take me 20 mastery to get to 1% better than vers. And it requires I maintain my target. This can be especially frustrating on hard target swaps where I have to use either my big cooldown or MS before I start getting the benefit. Its either that or I have to furiously swap targets constantly to maintain the dmg bonus.

Obviously, this only matters if we're talking about having to choose between vers and mastery. If you're running harmo gear, you get a sweet little double dip... but you're giving up crit to do it, which I'd argue is absolutely not worth it.

Anyway, you run into the reality of gearing arms. Your available slots to run Mastery without sacrificing a gob of crit or sockets are essentially rings, cloak and bracers. Maybe boots/shoulders if you REALLY want. Which realistically means what? 40 mastery? Maaaaybe 50? So you're getting a whole 2-2.5% more dmg on a single target than you would going vers... with the aforementioned issues re: target swapping and dmg reduction.

If I understand your ranking correctly, a 4 would mean its worth stacking, which I assume means "worth stacking at the expense of other stats" but a 3 is more "dont ignore it but dont specifically seek it out. Maybe consider a trinket instead" which I think is much more in line with its value for arms. Especially considering how good a trinket something like Pit Fighter can be to add a little beef to the build and also a quality dmg proc, which is great going into longer fights. Or maybe you run Elekks as a budget brand Daelos.

Obviously, a very minor quibble when we both seem to mostly agree that crit/vers is just kinda the way to do it but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

 

[Bop]

If I may...

I'd posit that you need to demote Mastery for arms from a 4 to a 3. If I add 5 points of Mastery to my build, I get another 1.4% dmg. If I add 5 points of vers, I get 1.2%

It would take me 20 mastery to get to 1% better than vers. And it requires I maintain my target. This can be especially frustrating on hard target swaps where I have to use either my big cooldown or MS before I start getting the benefit. Its either that or I have to furiously swap targets constantly to maintain the dmg bonus.

Obviously, this only matters if we're talking about having to choose between vers and mastery. If you're running harmo gear, you get a sweet little double dip... but you're giving up crit to do it, which I'd argue is absolutely not worth it.

Anyway, you run into the reality of gearing arms. Your available slots to run Mastery without sacrificing a gob of crit or sockets are essentially rings, cloak and bracers. Maybe boots/shoulders if you REALLY want. Which realistically means what? 40 mastery? Maaaaybe 50? So you're getting a whole 2-2.5% more dmg on a single target than you would going vers... with the aforementioned issues re: target swapping and dmg reduction.

If I understand your ranking correctly, a 4 would mean its worth stacking, which I assume means "worth stacking at the expense of other stats" but a 3 is more "dont ignore it but dont specifically seek it out. Maybe consider a trinket instead" which I think is much more in line with its value for arms. Especially considering how good a trinket something like Pit Fighter can be to add a little beef to the build and also a quality dmg proc, which is great going into longer fights. Or maybe you run Elekks as a budget brand Daelos.

Obviously, a very minor quibble when we both seem to mostly agree that crit/vers is just kinda the way to do it but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

If 4 points of vers is .89% increased damage, 5 points of vers is 1.2% increased damage?

Genuine question - is that what shows on your tooltip?

Also, you understand my ranking correctly!

 

[Batchee]

For frost dk: You get all the crit you need from tbc pieces but otherwise if you're running rune of razorice, the stat prio is mastery > vers > haste. But id say between haste and vers its 50/50 if you can't kill the target in 9 runes or less. On my DK i have 17% crit, 60% mastery, 12% haste and 10% vers but if it were up to me id only rely on the haste from tbc pieces and get like 17% vers instead.
Im not sold on absolute mastery stacking and definitely not crit stacking.
inb4 people wanting numbers:

 

[mirrorbender]

There's a big difference between crit vs. mastery and crit build vs. mastery build. A crit build is always going to have a bunch more primary stat (sockets), but that doesn't mean that crit>mastery. Mastery rating is way more valuable to frost DK than crit rating, but the availability just isn't there to make a good set where every piece gives a bunch of mastery.

 

[Chops]

Genuine question - is that what shows on your tooltip?

yessir. I use the double socket quest boots as a default, but have peerless and quickblade boots that have 5 mastery/5 vers respectively and when I swap them out, thats the tooltip damage increase in the character panel

 

[Banishedjr]

Disc mastery is rlly good. I’d go haste to 20% > vers = mast > crit if there was more CC in the bracket, scales really well in BGs too, though I know that’s not part of the considerations here. I would recommend rating it as 4/5 given your ranking system, as it is certainly worth farming some pieces for.

Also agree that some of these posts should be taken with a grain of salt

 

[Goesid]

And as I've posted many times, show me different, and I'll buy all your bullshit. I accepted with elemental shaman (even tho I'm still waiting on some non euro numbers).

Whats with euro numbers?

 

[uFred]

This thread is awesome! Thank you so much OP.
Helps clear up a question I had about which specs are built without any green BoE armor or weapons.

 

[JadeFire]

Whats with euro numbers?

Nothing, I just have not seen any US elementals put up the numbers you posted in the other thread. Wondering if most of them just stack mastery too high as I was. Here he has it as 5/5... but, that can't be right... I don't quite understand what 5/5 means, but to me that sounds like you should be picking it over any other stat.

 

[Kracks]

If you want to just hammer out an quick Auction House DK

thats what yours is right? nice wep btw...

 

[Chops]

I just have not seen any US elementals put up the numbers you posted in the other thread.

your insistence on sorting the scoreboard by damage done and using that as the way to rate the effectiveness of any build is whats really hampering your ability to cogently assess stat priority.

Like, we've had this conversation with you a couple dozen times at this point. "I refuse to believe a build is good/effective unless it hits this arbitrary point on a relatively meaningless stat" is just a really bad way to think about this stuff.

 

[JadeFire]

View attachment 20780
thats what yours is right? nice wep btw...

Yeah, but that secret future tech is just beyond your scope (I assume your tiny brain thinks that is the only weapon I have/use... that's cool). They teach you about that in Frost DK second grade.
[doublepost=1649260703,1649260523][/doublepost]

your insistence on sorting the scoreboard by damage done and using that as the way to rate the effectiveness of any build is whats really hampering your ability to cogently assess stat priority.

Like, we've had this conversation with you a couple dozen times at this point. "I refuse to believe a build is good/effective unless it hits this arbitrary point on a relatively meaningless stat" is just a really bad way to think about this stuff.

I think you are misreading what I'm saying. The Other thread I got chastised for stacking mastery... which you personally did most of (if you remember I had an elemental with 100% overload and have since then changed to more balanced and it does better)... so I assume you agree that 5/5 is way to much for Mastery on his chart? That is what I was getting at.

To that effect I also think you devalue raw damage way to much, especially in something as goofy as the 20s.

 

[Chops]

so I assume you agree that 5/5 is way to much for Mastery on his chart?

You dont have to assume, you just have to read. I said as much on the first page...

I'm far from what you'd call an ele main but I've been playing it a bit lately and I started out heavy mastery stacked (its buffs DMG and its a resource builder!?) but have slowly been replacing some of that with haste (on Goesids recommendation) and find the build even more enjoyable and more effective.

Which isnt to say its bad. I think its a rock solid 4/5, just not a 5/5.

I think you are misreading what I'm saying.

I am not. You constantly reference total damage done on a BG scoreboard as indicative of the effectiveness of any given spec/stat combo. Its really quite silly and people have pointed it out dozens of times yet you continue to insist on it.

 

[Kracks]

hey @JadeFire does it look like I was getting pocket healed here? not like I was solo q'd into a 5 man or anything with my super bad mastery/haste build

 

[Ivo]

Krackshead, chops and jadefire discussing stats
Best show ever.

And to the disc priest guy: no, mastery isn't worth it

 

[JadeFire]

You dont have to assume, you just have to read. I said as much on the first page...


I am not. You constantly reference total damage done on a BG scoreboard as indicative of the effectiveness of any given spec/stat combo. Its really quite silly and people have pointed it out dozens of times yet you continue to insist on it.

You just ignore half of what people say and misquote them (its actually a chronic issue)... even in this very thread I clearly pointed out the differences in Frost DK builds if you want to not focus on damage and cast more chains of ice. Too much tunnel vison.

And again, if Geosid is playing his elemental right and also does 160k while playing it... and US players do 80k... I'd like to know what that secret is... you might be content with casting frost shock and throwing down static field totem, I get that... no reason to not figure out the damage discrepancy part. Maybe he just presses the buttons better... could be, but I play enough games per day to see his results are an anomaly that deserves attention.

 

[Chops]

Too much tunnel vison.

why do you think I play warrior?