The Twenty League: F2P and Vet Balance Rules and Restrictions. Feedback Helps!
- Thread starter Burg
- Start date
Allybeboba
Legend
Three heals is plenty.
Sweetsidney
Sweetsidney
OP
OP
Burg
<Nagaz With Attitudez>
This isn't a thread for the premade rules quite yet! I'm still thinking of how I would want to do that.
This thread was more to see the interest of trying to balance it out to make it so both Vets and F2Ps could participate, but by the responses I get on both here and ingame whispers no one seems to want them combined. Thing with that is most people aren't thinking it through. To have successful tourney you would want at least 8 teams. If we did a pure F2P tourney or pure Vet tourney I could truly only see about 4 teams for each top, if that. If we combine there would be potential for more teams to be formed.
Timeforsaper
Grandfathered
I can understand the Touch of Void being on Restriction since f2ps have no ability to acquire the trinket , But the AGM/DMF Trinket can be gained by all accounts. Also if the tournament is going to rely on teams having to be mixed ( Vets/F2P) , while not make all enchants legal ( both teams would have the same number of Vets ) and play keep the f2p Alive and I think EFC spot should be open to F2P if the team wants , But hey i'm down for either or , let me know how I can help.
OP
OP
Burg
<Nagaz With Attitudez>
Thanks for offering to help! Me and Turtle could use all the help we can get.
The only reason I was thinking ban the new AGM and DMF is just because they are newer. But you are right, with them being available to everyone then I can understand why we wouldn't ban them.
I still don't think all enchants should be allowed. A weapon proc goes off, let's just say Flintlocke's for the sake of example, a hunter would be able to down a F2P in no time. Plus all the speed enchants can Ben game changing with a F2P.
Everything is up for discussion though and being considered for sure.
tence
Legend
This is why I suggested a point system, for team compositions. Ideally, a vet fc (that has access to better gear, and better enchants, while still following the rules of this tourney) would have a higher point value, than say a ftp restricted fc. Using the point system for both classes and mixing vets/ftps will not only allow some of classes that may not be able to perform to the degree the top tier classes could, but also could allow for interesting strategies.
One team could have a very strong defense with a vet fc, and 3 vet heals (2 disc and 1 Rshaman) but would have to sacrifice on the dps end of their strat, and rely instead on waiting until stacks hit, and outpacing the other team, using more of a long game strategy.
Another team could try to go for quick returns and overpowering the other team with a really strong offence, but again would lack in strong defense or fc if they cannot get that quick return.
I cannot speak for the entire bracket, but allowing for more diversity and strategy, while opening up the potential for most/all classes (vet or ftp) to play in a competitive environment AND not be gimping their team, would not only make for more interesting games, but possibly even make pugs better, since people would try out other less played specs to practice.
Allybeboba
Legend
When you start dealing with points it starts getting too complicated. It needs to be simple.
Nice simple rules. The initial rules were actually pretty awesome. Simple and sweet, not open for interpretation.
The less rules there are, the less there are for people to try and manipulate.
Three heals are fine. I think that level 20's healers are underestimated. Way underestimated... Anything more than three and no one will die with the restrictions that are suggested.
Nice simple rules. The initial rules were actually pretty awesome. Simple and sweet, not open for interpretation.
The less rules there are, the less there are for people to try and manipulate.
Three heals are fine. I think that level 20's healers are underestimated. Way underestimated... Anything more than three and no one will die with the restrictions that are suggested.
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Lanky
meraki
You don't even need 3 healers, 2 will do just fine. Especially if they are vet. With the higher health pool than 19s and being less bursty, 3 healers isn't needed. But it should be kept at 3 to allow diverse plays.
Snowjobs
Fluffy
imo 2 strong heals then 1 utility heal (rdruid , hpally )
Allybeboba
Legend
Only really good on a Stam/crit/haste set. I use it. I don't see why any DPS would even consider it.
Sweetsidney
Hashbrowns
Legend
Wait isn't Heartsong like 7 spirit on proc? Dungeon quest leathers, rings, satchel belt/cloak... should be plenty of spirit.
Allybeboba
Legend
No, it is much much higher. As in over four times that amount.
But it is only spirit. It does not do any damage, nor does it add to your heals.
Sweetsidney
Buckeye
Legend
Isn't Windsong better than Heartsong? With the extra crit and haste you don't need to cast as much since your heals come out so much harder and faster, which makes spirit less important... That's my rationale, anyway. I'm way too lazy to do the math. Of course, if you get too carried away, that extra haste can run you oom.
smoke
The Original "clicker"
Is this twinkinfo.Com or regularplayer.Com ? I think you should be able to use anything you can get your hands on. If you deside to pay or not pay is your choice . How about just make it 10 vs 10 but half of the players f2p and other half Vets, or p2p. Hard to ballance this bracket . But for the better or worst I will willing to help test anything you want to try. Sign me up in my Vet disc priest horde side ( link in my sign.) I will make the set of gear the way you want it and test it next couple dayz .
Allybeboba
Legend
If it procs haste it will most likely be wasted since anything that reduces your GCD below 1 sec is no good. My GCD is already at 1.1 and that is without going full haste. Heartsong procs on dispels. And I dispel a LOT, even more so as a Mistwalker. As any good healer should do. And dispelling takes mana. Crits won't help you on dispels but spirit will certainly help you get that mana back! With all those instant casts that Mistwalkers cast you go mana dry very quickly. Without heartsong you would OOM in no time.
Sweetsidney
pinochet
Legend
I think a lot of these requirements should be relaxed or eliminated.
The game will be reasonably balanced just from having the same numbers of vets and trials on each side, so I don't think we need to get vets most/all of the way down to f2p power level. The rules should be as uninvasive as possible. I think it's important that no one should have to farm up extra gear just to compete, because even small barriers can make it hard to get to 20 players for a wargame.
Suggestions:
Thanks for reading.
The game will be reasonably balanced just from having the same numbers of vets and trials on each side, so I don't think we need to get vets most/all of the way down to f2p power level. The rules should be as uninvasive as possible. I think it's important that no one should have to farm up extra gear just to compete, because even small barriers can make it hard to get to 20 players for a wargame.
Suggestions:
- I think "veteran must be unenchanted for all heirloom slots" is a fair rule and much simpler than a long list. It also isn't cumbersome, since vets can just make new heirlooms to replace whatever gear they have to unequip (including non-heirloom gear like elemental force on shadowfang, which is banned since weapons are an "heirloom slot").
- I agree with letting f2ps have all of their enchants, to close the gear gap and keep them from having to obtain yet more gear.
- Ring and neck heirlooms should be legal (but unenchanted per #1). The stats they represent aren't really gamebreaking, and this saves vets from having to obtain and carry around thick bronze necklaces and such.
- Touch of the Void should be banned, but the other heirloom trinkets should be allowed. Trials have access to all the other trinkets anyway.
- Boot enchants are fine. 10% speed is fairly powerful, but both teams have the same total number of vets, and imo it's not worth making vets obtain a separate pair of boots.
- I don't think we need to specify vet/trial by role (e.g. exactly 2 vet and 1 non vet healer, and so on). Just make it "5 vets + 5 trials" for the entire team, and let the team sort out roles however they please. It might be a bit less balanced, but it probably makes it easier to get to 20 players this way.
Thanks for reading.
