The new rogue build
- Thread starter Falaris
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Sleyin
OG
Falaris said:
1100 HP with 18 Hit I for one have to say thats impressive. I think the disconnect is more with the fact that people just copy what others do without any real thought as to why. Falaris contradicts this philosiphy and with good reason, I think with good snares Falaris spec is very impressive. I've ran sub for as long as I can remember and the difference in why I like sub as compared to LOLOL CAN I HAZ GARROTE is for the utility. I like the shorter restealth time and sap range when played well it can be very handy. Sadly most people if you asked them why they play sub they would say so I can get the sap in rogue 1v1s. I think Falaris is spot on with most of his comments. The others (including myself) I don't think are "bad" for running sub because the spec itself seems to be inferior to his DPS wise but are bad for running it just because everyone else does.
Omgimarogue
OG
once you cap your MH, hit boosts your dps ever so marginally...but if you think that a LS shadowfang will overcompensate for your lower health pool and 199AP, be my guest
Falaris
OG
You guys dont even know what is being capped, youre just blindly repeating what the person before you said acting like you know the facts. Five percent doesnt 'cap your mainhand'. It caps your special attacks, which happen to be performed by your mainhand. Both mainhand and offhand white attacks are affected by going over this magical 'hit cap' which isnt really a hit cap at all.
Also, lower health pool? Did you even check my armory, or are you basing your responses off other posts in the thread? 1100hp with dual lifestealing is definitely above average survivability for a 19 rogue, not even taking into account that my hits connect alot more often (meaning more LS procs, meaning more HP). On top of that, I dont even have a fishing hat or 3/3 monkey wranglers for my toon yet, which means after finishing gearing him up, he'll be at 1200hp with dual lifestealing. How on earth is that a 'lower health pool' than the average 19 rogue?
Also, lower health pool? Did you even check my armory, or are you basing your responses off other posts in the thread? 1100hp with dual lifestealing is definitely above average survivability for a 19 rogue, not even taking into account that my hits connect alot more often (meaning more LS procs, meaning more HP). On top of that, I dont even have a fishing hat or 3/3 monkey wranglers for my toon yet, which means after finishing gearing him up, he'll be at 1200hp with dual lifestealing. How on earth is that a 'lower health pool' than the average 19 rogue?
Crilicilyn
OG
Actually in balance sets the avg. rogue sports 1260-1350 health and 20-30 more AP than you depending on setup. No one ever mentioned the fact that dual LS is bad for arenas, obviously you haven't spent the time reading most of these threads thoroughly, even if we may be trolling you a little here and there 
The fact is your logic sucks. You come off as some know it all who pro, who in fact no one has ever really heard of. Just keep playing with all that excess hit and watch yourself get rolled by actually skilled players bro. For your hit theory to work out your combat situation would need to be near ideal, i.e. you having at least an 80-90% contact time with your target, at best its 60% if the other player has no stuns/hinders/CC's at all or speed on you Which really is every class besides other rogues.
I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
The fact is your logic sucks. You come off as some know it all who pro, who in fact no one has ever really heard of. Just keep playing with all that excess hit and watch yourself get rolled by actually skilled players bro. For your hit theory to work out your combat situation would need to be near ideal, i.e. you having at least an 80-90% contact time with your target, at best its 60% if the other player has no stuns/hinders/CC's at all or speed on you Which really is every class besides other rogues.I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
subpar
OG
This thread is, imo, everything thats wrong with twinking today. Older twinking was great, back when nobody knew what the gear limits were...is it blue? Equip that shit. Good stats? Equip it. Slap the most OP enchants you can find on your gear, maybe an armor kit or two. Choose a spec that works for you. Done.
Now, everybody is worried about 2% crit, etc. I understand it, twink=the very best. But (and I know this is just me) all the spreadsheets, flowcharts, pie charts and other shit take some fun out of it.
Its an mmo, not a science. Think your build is the best? Fuuuuck year, use that shit.
Now, everybody is worried about 2% crit, etc. I understand it, twink=the very best. But (and I know this is just me) all the spreadsheets, flowcharts, pie charts and other shit take some fun out of it.
Its an mmo, not a science. Think your build is the best? Fuuuuck year, use that shit.
Sleyin
OG
Crilicilyn said:Actually in balance sets the avg. rogue sports 1260-1350 health and 20-30 more AP than you depending on setup. No one ever mentioned the fact that dual LS is bad for arenas, obviously you haven't spent the time reading most of these threads thoroughly, even if we may be trolling you a little here and there
I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
Honestly, I think you may have overstepped your bounds a little bit with this post. Falaris was probably rolling his old 19 Rogue on the PTR before you even made your 19 Rogue. I don't see how his logic sucks. Lets take this into consideration, if someone was to run the math on which spec was more DPS then we could close this argument. The main question is what wins out, his extra white hits while on target %60 of the time or the 20-30 AP you say balance rogues have over his setup/spec. Run the math on %60 time on target over the entire 22 min WSG and see which one comes out ahead. Or you can just link the older post that disproved this way back in 3.1. Go to a target dummy and autoattack and for around 12 minutes and see if the extra hit > the 20-30 AP. If not then topic over his spec is superior damage on %60 ToT. If the 20-30 AP is more DPS then start factoring in SnD, I think you will end up surprised with your statements.
Stuffo
OG
Crilicilyn said:Actually in balance sets the avg. rogue sports 1260-1350 health and 20-30 more AP than you depending on setup. No one ever mentioned the fact that dual LS is bad for arenas, obviously you haven't spent the time reading most of these threads thoroughly, even if we may be trolling you a little here and there
I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
I love the fact that you think he knows nothing, you act like you are the only person that has ever played, personally, in 10v10s or WSG i would rather have the DPS rogues hitting more often, SnD is the best.
Not every class/gear setup is for lolrogue1v1s or Arenas.
Falaris
OG
Crilicilyn said:Actually in balance sets the avg. rogue sports 1260-1350 health and 20-30 more AP than you depending on setup. No one ever mentioned the fact that dual LS is bad for arenas, obviously you haven't spent the time reading most of these threads thoroughly, even if we may be trolling you a little here and there
I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
Rogues may average 1250-1300hp in a warsong gulch, but those that do have rumsey and fort. If youre saying that rogues _average_ 1250-1300hp UNBUFFED, well then unfortunately youre even more clueless than I thought (lol@ the 'nobody' comment).
You talk about my 'logic', then refute it by spewing out random percentages to try to make your post seem more accurate.
Edit: If youre trying to say 'rogues are outdamaging you because they have 20 more AP than you' I dont really think anything else needs to be said. You just proved my point for me. Who do you think wins the dps fight between the rogue with 15 expertise and 11% chance to hit vs the rogue with 5% chance to hit, 7 expertise, and 20 more attack power? This isnt even factoring in that I have alot more survivability due to having dual LS that procs more than any other rogue in the bracket.
Sanit
OG
Crilicilyn said:Actually in balance sets the avg. rogue sports 1260-1350 health and 20-30 more AP than you depending on setup. No one ever mentioned the fact that dual LS is bad for arenas, obviously you haven't spent the time reading most of these threads thoroughly, even if we may be trolling you a little here and there
I'll spell this part out for you. YOUR GETTING NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ONLY FOR YOUR HIT THEORY AND YOUR "SUPERIOR"-NESS ARGUMENTATIVE STYLE. There are many of us here who have actually been playing a 19 rogue consistently for a very long time and do know what we are talking about/legitimely can prove our theories. Opening up an old theory that was disproved way back in 3.1 doesn't make you cool. GG sir.
Thanks for the epic lulz. YOU calling Falaris a nobody made my night.
Mazurati
OG
it's a trade off.
I've had sub spec a lot longer than the copy cat rogues and was laughed at for it.. but i remember going sub spec mainly cause i Had a assassin's blade with 5 damage and cruel barb with 15 agi to get the most out of garrote/ambush.
Personally.. I don't use sub spec because everyone else does or the 4 sec restealth.. i did it cause
1. i liked the sap range (great vs hunters imo)
2. i hated the stealth speed
3. increased garrote/ambush
now stealth speed is increased, which allows u a better chance to sap someone safely, that only leaves increased garrote/ambush, but is that really worth it now?
I've tried high expertise/hit rating like the gear Falaris has set up but with the huge increase in hunters/shamans/druids i rarely saw an opportunity for it to be effective.
I'll have to definitely try again seeing as most hunters forget about aspect of daze and try to better utilize slice n dice more often which i didn't do before last time i went with that spec/gear.
I've had sub spec a lot longer than the copy cat rogues and was laughed at for it.. but i remember going sub spec mainly cause i Had a assassin's blade with 5 damage and cruel barb with 15 agi to get the most out of garrote/ambush.
Personally.. I don't use sub spec because everyone else does or the 4 sec restealth.. i did it cause
1. i liked the sap range (great vs hunters imo)
2. i hated the stealth speed
3. increased garrote/ambush
now stealth speed is increased, which allows u a better chance to sap someone safely, that only leaves increased garrote/ambush, but is that really worth it now?
I've tried high expertise/hit rating like the gear Falaris has set up but with the huge increase in hunters/shamans/druids i rarely saw an opportunity for it to be effective.
I'll have to definitely try again seeing as most hunters forget about aspect of daze and try to better utilize slice n dice more often which i didn't do before last time i went with that spec/gear.
Omgimarogue
OG
Falaris said:
i didnt say get to 5%
i said cap your main hand
so do that, then gear for more AP and crit, and be better than whatever you think you'll be doing with this setup/spec
Falaris said:
OSNAP
stop being an elitist and maybe people would give your opinion more weight
attackattack
OG
I didn't read all of your posts but from what I can tell is that your basing your survival on LS procs which I would assume is why your speccing into precision and stacking so much hit and expertise but most classes now in the 19 bracket kite and I saw that you have sprint glyph which is good but that means you have 15 seconds every 3 minutes and other than that you probably won't be making all of this contact that you're stressing so basicly yeah you'll be able to stay alive but that's solely based around hitting your oponent and for everyone that's actually trying to say that a few ap matters over a few hit you really needa rethink rogues -.-
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