The Fury nerf was the last straw

[shanker]

i can understand being mad at hunters in low brackets, but this was a issue since day one of WOW bg's.

imo, no fury war can honestly flame, crutching on gems blizz has missed and finally caught on 3rd squish, crutching on a enchant that was not squished for 4 expacs, to top that the PPM that was once 2ppm is still broken and chain procing, noticeably starting in BFA. lets not forget about the naga hide enchant early BFA. fury wars have heal backs and sustains that once did not exist on the spec or in the lower BG brackets. this caused a FOTM roll into fury, just as in WOTLK the roll into arms for the enti's quenching sword.

the current heal on crusader at 130 (+boosted by versa) is still more consistent and higher than it ever was 15 years prior. ability to use dual heal swords plus crusader at a still a not properly squished enchant with a 40str and 130+ heal along with a higher ppm than it had in van wow, BC, etc. it's still good and not far off the 100 / 75-125 value that never got squished until the mage tower re-release

3 1/2 years of fury being good, delete away, however i would not, i think it's still good.

you have certain servers doing again what they did in BC and WOTLK, rolling mini mades of hunters with healers, nothing changes, pizza is now someone else

 

[Kracks]

Rip whirlwind spam it rlly looked like fun interesting gameplay to me

 

[CigNus]

rolling mini mades of hunters with healers, nothing changes, pizza is now someone else

Pizza isn't a person, it's a state of mind. It still lives on to this day.

 

[Robo]

Was kinda hoping Crusader stayed OP for timewalking runs and leveling lol. But I would give it up for the 20s bracket to be enjoyable

 

[Bop]

I've always been a little confused over the premade hate. I mean at a face value, yeah it's annoying to lose to a guild premade of incredibly well funded toons farming you in your graveyard.

But shouldn't a premade dominate a battleground with 15 other solo queue players? Wouldn't it be pretty fucking weird if the premade was getting dumpstered by the equivalent 5 solo players on the other team?

If we want to talk about class balance, abusing certain items, graveyard farming or whatever - sure. But how can premading by itself be scummy? This is a discussion as old as Twinkinfo, but I'd love to hear some newer takes.

 

[Chops]

I honestly don't understand why people complain about premades when that's in the core of MMOs. If you want to soloQ you're in the wrong game.

I guess blizz didn't get the memo because they recently implemented a soloQ arena feature for 60s...

TL/DR: lol naw, read it you lazy nerds

One of the issues at the core of Derps frustration is that nobody (not even Blizzard) really knows what this game is. It is, in name, an MMORPG but it's not being designed and developed towards that. At least not in a way we would recognize as a traditional MMORPG.

Thing is, folks seem to want (and blizzard wants to deliver) an ARPG experience. But WoW is built with a bunch of MMORPG features and on an MMORPG skeleton. There's a lot of systems and expectations that come with that.

People want to log on and have something to immediately do for an hour or so and still feel like theyre making progress. I dont think todays gaming audience has the patience to spend an hour putting together a BRD group, packing a lunch and spending a half a day clearing one instance. Not any more, at least.

So the game has increasingly drifted towards bite-sized bits of progress. Log on, do a couple dailies, make progress. Que the occasional dungeon/mythic, make progress. Play a couple BGs/arenas, make progress. All things you can do immediately and with minimal time commitment.

And people, understandably, want that feeling *more* in twinking. Thats a major part of the appeal. Step off the end game treadmill, have a toon you can consider "done" and just log on, casually que random BGs and have some fun. Log out and do something else.

And this begins to highlight a major shift in the way games (notably, blizzard properties) have been designed over the past two decades. One of the major features of MMORPGs (at least, traditionally) is the understanding that the player is not a god but actually only slightly more powerful than an open world mob. In order to progress through the game, you *had* to group up (older WoW xpacs) or at least over level the area you were in (Diablo/Diablo 2).

But as players increasingly want those quick, bite-sized chunks of progress, waiting on groups is anathema to getting that done. So, relative to their surroundings, characters had to get stronger. And when in features that require groups (dungeons) the party had to be stronger. Now, instead of "sheep that mob, sap that other one, concentrate fire on the healer mob, then we'll swap" style of pulling, you get mass pulls and everyone just spams AOE. Its faster this way and this is what people want. Diablo 3, Path of Exile, Lost Ark... all generally have this feeling of the player as God Like relative to their surroundings. WoW has, more or less, committed to this as well. Nothing in the world in a major threat unless you simply aggro way too much of it.

And, increasingly, twinks want that feeling in pvp. It's always been a draw for some twinks. Rumbling around like a raid boss in the middle of WSG while levelers harmlessly bounce off you, never really posing a threat unless you got too many of them on you at once. But as games consciously and unconsciously develop towards catering to this, more and more people expect their character to be this way in both pve and pvp.

And the best way to get that feeling, right now, is to roll fotm classes in premades. I know how godly I feel playing a warrior getting healbotted by a shaman. I can't imagine how powerful it must feel to be a surv hunter with a disc priest at your back. Much less, one of several hunters with a couple of disc priests. Its like running rifts in Diablo 3. You just plow through people and, if you catch another twink group, its just like an elite pack in a more difficult rift.

You can get around this, of course. The boys in the arena discord are still going strong and getting what appear to be regular, fun and engaging pvp experiences. Guilds have scheduled in house pvp events throughout the xpac. Folks have put together pugmades and the like. There is organized pvp out there and it really is spectacular.

Thing is, it requires the kind of coordination and time commitment that people are increasingly not looking for. Derps complaint centers around being able to log on and just casually que randoms. Which is, mostly, the appeal of level 20 play. If we wanted to coordinate pvp in groups of just twinks... why didnt we choose a different bracket? But, nobody wants to casually que up to be a mob to someone elses raid boss. That feels like shit.

I'm not sure what the answer is in terms of fixing the game. But it does seem, increasingly, like the answer on a personal level is to simply stop playing BGs. And if the pvp is the only aspect of the game that appeals to you, the answer is to quit playing altogether. And its a highly understandable decision to make.

 

[Bop]

I'm not sure what the answer is in terms of fixing the game. But it does seem, increasingly, like the answer on a personal level is to simply stop playing BGs. And if the pvp is the only aspect of the game that appeals to you, the answer is to quit playing altogether. And its a highly understandable decision to make.

There are arenas Don't go. We do /roll matchmaking wargames!

Or if you're casual, you can find a friend and queue skirmishes. Then you get to be the raid boss against 95% of people you face.

 

[Chops]

There are arenas Don't go. We do /roll matchmaking wargames!

Or if you're casual, you can find a friend and queue skirmishes. Then you get to be the raid boss against 95% of people you face.

this, 100%.

The organized pvp I've played in this xpac is the best twinking pvp experience I can remember. And I very fondly remember Wrath 39s. I havent had time the past 6 months to really participate and it makes me sad.

But i'll see you guys in a week or two!

I would encourage anyone who is a bit despondent about the state of random BGs to hook up with the guys in the arena discord. Its a great group of people, way more casual attitudes and environment than you'd expect and the games are a blast.

 

[Nocontest]

Farewell my sweet Derpy

 

[BANKONE]

Second everything chops said here, with emphasis on the “fotm” premade aspect.

There’s a select and growing number of 20s here that have their fotm setup with “good ‘nuff” gear on one or both factions and just que whichever side is winning under the guise of “playing with my friends”

They just want easy games. Thats fine. Go play Smite or LoL though.

 

[Ivo]

Win traders are old news, we got plenty of them on EU. I don't get it though. Why would you queue with the winning team rather than balancing it on the other team? You can even log a hunter or priest for a bigger impact on the losing team.

 

[Cattywompus]

Win traders are old news, we got plenty of them on EU. I don't get it though. Why would you queue with the winning team rather than balancing it on the other team? You can even log a hunter or priest for a bigger impact on the losing team.

I strictly play horde, but I have a decked out alliance ret paladin incase horde is stomping. I'm not the only person that does it, but you gotta bring balance to the force.

 

[Chey]

If anyone thinks crusader is nerfed they have the mind set of a hunter so may as well go play one.

Crusader is still broken and Fury is still very strong.

What I would give for a high consistency 40 agility proc that comes with a 150-500 heal, I would thank the gods and sacrifice my first born!

 

[JadeFire]

Everybody during sometime of the day does not get pocket heals and finds out they were not as good as they thought... that is just net zero for either faction.

Honestly, the only real thing left that is out of wack to the extreme is aimed shot (you could also put rapid fire in there) Yeah some stuff is still broke, like shadow priest dps in the right hands and survival hunter lol 2 button... but that is still just damage that can be dealt with.

Some goofy-gut hair-lip capping off 1800 damage rounds at 1 kilometer away and also just being able to run around full speed while machine gunning is just bonkers dumb and is actually toxic for the bracket and so are the people that enjoy that wonky shit.

 

[BANKONE]

If anyone thinks crusader is nerfed they have the mind set of a hunter so may as well go play one.

this.

except These people should go play an ARPG.

 

[Merlin]

It's a very fair game now.. Hunters are very weak when they pass certain levels.. At endgame even fewer hunters.. It just happened they are OP in 10s and 20s bg and you happened to be in it.. The heading of the post is about warriors but the subject turned out to be about hunters.. Again!

 

[JadeFire]

I feel like more people just need to spirit afk from bad games... just go get a glass of water or whatever and let the premades run around for 10 minutes acting hard. Lot less stress. Or just que two toons at once, just pick the better game.

You are not here to appease those kids, they are already out to phuc you by being in a premade... end of story.

*If its close or can be a good game, sure, you should stay IMO, but for just some goofy nerd squad... go vacuum your room for a bit.

 

[orcgazmatron]

What I would give for a high consistency 40 agility proc that comes with a 150-500 heal, I would thank the gods and sacrifice my first born!

No shit... I've actually been considering putting Cru on my Rogue's off-hand just for that heal.

 

[chelly]

No shit... I've actually been considering putting Cru on my Rogue's off-hand just for that heal.

that time has come and gone with the fix unfortunately. You are better off with eleforce or dancing steel

I’ve been through many theorycrafting tests on self healing/ sustain enchants post sader. They’re all bad and not worth the damage you’re giving up.

 

[Behindew]

The real truth is. Most of us dont endgame because we cant. Twinks have always been ment to shit on people or run wargames. Since there is no wargames except arena which most dont play you are left with solo que or premading. Fotm has always been a thing. Even at high levels. High end pvp rogues, dks, mages are bonkers right now. It doesnt stop the rank 1s from working around it in rbgs and the ladder....most people at the core of this game dont have an ilvl of 250 plus on a main nor a single arena achievement over 2400 because in reality they never were good so they came to the twink bracket to think they are good by two tapping someone. The only skill is in organized pvp. Or one premade with less people out playing another premade with more people with the same team composition. Premades have been a thing since the start. You should play with people. I prefer to solo que but thats me. Just admit most people here are actually dogshit and dont want to use their brain capacity to hit more than 10 buttons. It that simple. Figure it the fuck out already. Go to end game. Get gladiator or rank 1 end game. Then talk all the shit you want. I only know a select few that have gladiator and like 1 or two that hold actual current rank 1 titles that dont even play twinks anymore. Many have purchased gladiator titles and accounts. Hell i sell accounts as a side hustle and have had various twinks buy them off me. You know who you are. Wink wink. Ive seen people that are cabale of being good at end game but dont even challenge themselves because they think they cant do it. Ive seen players mechanically better then other gladiators but dont want to chase any titles. I havent touched twinks in two weeks because im pushing for glad this season because the mount is dope. Back in s14 i got glorious tyranny in wod primal vic and legion demonic tyranny. Besides getting the coolest pvp illusions in the game i have yet to play hard core end game until this season because i actually enjoy shitting on levelers and other twinks. I wish more organized pvp was a thing. Wargames are fun for the bg aspect. If youre going to bitch and moan because hunters are over tuned at low levels but then praise the same team for allowing cruader to give you an advantage for your class to be able to tank 5 people at once, youre a dumb shit and should leave. Good riddance. And next time complain about something that actually has some sense.