The Big Poll

[Kincaide]

I'm putting this in the 20-29 section and linking to it from the F2P section. This applies to everyone who regularly plays in the 20-29 bracket.

We have to reorganize the forums in order to accommodate the changes Blizzard made to off-subscription accounts. I'm going to assume at this point everyone who is affected by this change already knows the details of the different account types. If you don't, ask someone before voting.

This is meant to represent all the practical combinations we could implement. If you feel like I've missed an important option, tell me right away and I should be able to add it.

Feel free to discuss here. Keep in mind that this isn't a contract, as there might be outside factors that prevent us or steer us away from the top choice. I'm just putting that out there because I cannot give any guarantees on what Shane will ultimately decide, and his decision is final.

 

[Light]

Brb leaving this to be first on strong points

 

[AlbinoCow]

Will this be a poll tournament , single elimination top 50% move on till 1 is left, lol. Because otherwise a poll with this many options wont prove anything...

 

[Activate]

What can you do in a month? Let's get specific about Veterans!

 

[Kincaide]

Will this be a poll tournament , single elimination top 50% move on till 1 is left, lol. Because otherwise a poll with this many options wont prove anything...

We can certainly consider something like that, especially if there are a handful of options that are coming out on top. It would give a chance for everyone to be completely honest now, but also still have a voice in their second option if their first option proves to be unpopular.

 

[Mocha]

I like the idea of having separate guides from discussion and separate discussion for 20s and 21-29s but that's just my opinion. Unfortunately, this isn't a section of the site that I visit frequently as I had not played anything 20-29 besides some 20s in MOP since 2007 or so.


29s are clearly a different beast from 20 f2p and 20 vet. But I'm not so sure that 20 vet is terribly different from 20 f2p or at least different enough to need another set of subforums.


Imo this would be preferred to start with and then if the f2p and vet section have enough threads being made, then we could divide the two.


Just my opinion.

 

[Bizarre]

Since the thread was closed literally as I was about to reply to Swoops. I'll just post it here.

Veteran accounts have blurred the lines between p2p, f2p, 20 and 29.

I do not agree with this last part. Vets are 20s, 29s are.. 29. How does a 9 level difference become blurred? That difference is crystal clear in my eyes.

leaves fully twinked veteran 20s in a weird spot

You mean just like how weird ALL 20's (F2P, P2P, Pure, Linked, Vets, etc.) will feel being forced to engage in the 29's section with content they don't relate to?


Edit:
To stay on the topic of this thread. I voted for: Guides and Discussion for all 20, and another for all 21-29

Wasn't sure what difference separating guides would make. If anything, I believe it would make it harder for people to search and find them.. but if I could have voted twice, I would have chosen that option as well.

 

[Gazmitron]

F2P and P2P 20's should have different places. They are both different in BiS/Chants and so on.

21-29 should be itself. Because 9 out of 10 times if you aren't 20 you are 29.

Just my humble opinion. Cheers!

 

[Swoops]

I do not agree with this last part. Vets are 20s, 29s are.. 29. How does a 9 level difference become blurred? That difference is crystal clear in my eyes.

Obviously there's still an ability gap, but I think you could consider it somewhat blurred when you factor in level/item level scaling. The gear/stat gap between 29s and veteran 20s is pretty much nonexistent.

You mean just like how weird ALL 20's (F2P, P2P, Pure, Linked, Vets, etc.) will feel being forced to engage in the 29's section with content they don't relate to?

No, I mean veteran 20s will half relate to the 21-29 section and half relate to the 20 section, while not really "belonging" to either. If the sections were combined, the 20-29 section would have content for everyone. Ideally there'd be a way to indicate when a thread is directed at a specific subsection of the community.

 

[Faerondil]

I do not agree with this last part. Vets are 20s, 29s are.. 29. How does a 9 level difference become blurred? That difference is crystal clear in my eyes.
.

Ok let's forget for a moment the numbers 20 and 29.

F2p and linked f2p share restrictions but not gear 100% since linked accts likely have access now to more heirlooms.

Both f2ps share restrictions and most gear but not enchants with vets.

Vets share most gear and all enchants (so therefore very similar raw damage and healing power) with full p2p twinks but not 2 glyphs and a couple of abilities which how critical the glyphs and abilities are depends a lot on the class and spec.

So that is why swoops says vets blur the line. Each step up is a small increment from the previous one.

Edit: IMHO in all honesty, with the recent nerf to speed stacking, the biggest gap in the above is between linked f2p and vet.

 

[Bizarre]

Obviously there's still an ability gap, but I think you could consider it somewhat blurred when you factor in level/item level scaling. The gear/stat gap between 29s and veteran 20s is pretty much nonexistent.

Just for a quick example, let's take a look at the 29 warlock you have in your sig. Aside from heirlooms and a dungeon belt, everything has been obtained in Scarlet Halls. 20's cannot relate to any of this gear.. and that's just one example. I'm sure there are quest greens/blues, other dungeon gear, etc. that I don't know about because I simply don't play a 29. It's not my content. Regardless of the stats/item level, a 29 could be wearing a piece of white gear, but 20's will still not be able to relate to that piece of gear OR the methods on how these pieces of said gear are obtained. THAT is the difference I am trying to point out. Sure we are all scaled to "29" in battlegrounds, but gearing a 20 (F2P, P2P, Vet, etc.) vs. a 29 is still very different, and they belong in separate sections.

 

[Faerondil]

BiS gearing (since the new scaling mechanics) between a vet 20 and a 29 often come down to stat preferences or ease in obtaining certain items.

Edit: by this I mean full AP/SP, stam stacked, crit/haste builds.

Also gearing a rogue is very different from gearing a warlock. Should classes have separate sections instead of levels then?

 

[Bizarre]

Also gearing a rogue is very different from gearing a warlock. Should classes have separate sections instead of levels then?

If you want to be technical, yes, but is that practical? No. Right now the biggest difference staring us all in the face is 20 vs. 29. As Activate said, we all have our big boy pants on and are perfectly capable of distinguishing gear from one class to another WITHIN the same content. This is also why people make class specific guides on how to gear, and use tools like Wowhead, etc. Separating the difference between 20 and 29 will, imo, make it easier for people to find class guides and information about the content they play in.

Edit:
On that note. Yes, if the bracket becomes one, big, cluster-fuck section, then we're all capable of distinguishing differences from
20 vs. 29, F2P vs. Vet, etc. but it would be pointless and a waste of time searching through the clutter when the sections could, and should be separated.

 

[Faerondil]

A few more thoughts and then I'm off..

We can all read and post in whatever forums we like, so what difference does having one forum or two or three really make? Are you really so strapped for time or mental energy that going through more threads is such a burden or confusing?

Pardon the silly analogy. But if someone can relate IRL Iraq to TI forums, I should be able to relate TI forums to real life. Since segregation is so cool here, we should apply it to real life. I mean really like Adolf Hitler, if you remove all the evil shit aren't the ideals of the KKK not such a bad thing. Wouldn't life be easier if we were all confined to our own racial/ethnic/sexual orientation zones?

As for Vet 20 vs 29 gearing, out of 15-16 slots and 11-12 enchants (which is close to half the gearing equation) how different is gearing a Vet 20 and a 29 really at the end of the day?

 

[Honey Badger]

Look at the amount of f2p already in this thread section lately. It's already started. Also 20 & 21-29 ? Hmmm there already was a lot of 20 p2ps with no restrictions before patch.

 

[Bizarre]

how different is gearing a Vet 20 and a 29 really at the end of the day?

http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter...:22:13:15:14:3:25:12:17:6:9;minrl=21;maxrl=29

Wowhead can only display 1000, but 1252 items that a 29 can use over a 20 were found.

 

[willix]

This idea is meant to solve two main problems:

1. The constant back and forth between 20s and everyone else. You don't need your own section of the forums. Giving you your own section was a bad idea. It only helped foster the 'us vs them' mentality, which is something Shane and Co claim to want to eliminate.

2. The idea that 29s shouldn't be posting in the F2P section and vice versa. This is a discussion forum. It doesn't matter what level you are or how you play the game. Everyone has just as much right to post in any part of the forums as anyone else. This is the kind of idea that stems from problem number one.

I don't much care for segregation, and as long as F2Ps, Vets, and 29s are all in the same BGs/arenas together, there's no reason to segregate their forum discussion.

 

[smitster]

20s vets and 20 p2p have so much in common with f2p, withholding enchants and a very small variance in gear available, they have the same abilities and playstyle for the most part. 21+ immediately becomes different, and not that i know many twinking at 21-23, as soon as new gear becomes available at 21 it should be seperate. At 25+ with glyphs and 21+ when new abilities become available, the entire game changes. 20s and 21-29, regardless of subscription should be seperated. F2p guides offer a great starting point for 20 vets and p2p, but as a strictly level 20 player my game is completely different than a 29 or other level twink's game.


TLDR: all level 20 in one forum, 21+ in another

 

[Bizarre]

This idea is meant to solve two main problems:

1. The constant back and forth between 20s and everyone else. You don't need your own section of the forums. Giving you your own section was a bad idea. It only helped foster the 'us vs them' mentality, which is something Shane and Co claim to want to eliminate.

2. The idea that 29s shouldn't be posting in the F2P section and vice versa. This is a discussion forum. It doesn't matter what level you are or how you play the game. Everyone has just as much right to post in any part of the forums as anyone else. This is the kind of idea that stems from problem number one.

I don't much care for segregation, and as long as F2Ps, Vets, and 29s are all in the same BGs/arenas together, there's no reason to segregate their forum discussion.

As somebody already stated, this is an 'us vs. them' game.

At this point, let's all just sit in mid Warsong Gulch, have a picnic, and discuss the thumbs up each one of our asses.

 

[Bizarre]

20s vets and 20 p2p have so much in common with f2p, withholding enchants and a very small variance in gear available, they have the same abilities and playstyle for the most part. 21+ immediately becomes different, and not that i know many twinking at 21-23, as soon as new gear becomes available at 21 it should be seperate. At 25+ with glyphs and 21+ when new abilities become available, the entire game changes. 20s and 21-29, regardless of subscription should be seperated. F2p guides offer a great starting point for 20 vets and p2p, but as a strictly level 20 player my game is completely different than a 29 or other level twink's game.


TLDR: all level 20 in one forum, 21+ in another

^This