Srs
Legend
Just going to throw this out there: what if we just banned druids altogether?
No really, think about it. Wouldn't everything just be better?
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No really, think about it. Wouldn't everything just be better?
Sputnick
Made in EU
One thing we've been testing are games against double boomkin setups, and we can definitely say that pressure in mid is definitely felt more on the side which isn't running a double boomkin comp, even if you're running double shaman. But playing with a warlock instead of a boomkin can also be very disruptive, but lacks AOE pressure and mobility.
Overall we never ban it on practice games, but would most likely play with a double boomkin comp on a more serious and competitive environment.
Overall we never ban it on practice games, but would most likely play with a double boomkin comp on a more serious and competitive environment.
bigmoran
Legend
u actually have brain damage if u believe this
Shamatix
Guest
First of all I really want to emphasize that the Twinkcup and NWL is two different things with two different goals. I am saying that because I feel a lot of this discussion is based around this whole partnership with blizzard on the NWL stream, to create the best viewer experience for the stream. It's never fun to watch a team getting graveyard farmed for however long the match might last as what happened when STARTER and BTag collided the other day, but we really do not have to go far down the timeline in order to rewatch one of the best series that has been going down lately, the NWL finals.
I feel like the biggest reason people wants to ban double boomkin banned is because they are way to locked down in their own little box and have the idea that playing mid is the only way to win a game, it's not like double boomkin doesnt have counters, certainly aint easy to keep a hunter FC alive for long. A great team is a flexible team, adapting to the situations, thinking outside the box and a team being able to play against whatever strat they are facing. People should just start to open their eyes for counters, different ways to play the game, instead of pulling out the "Can't beat it... ban it..." card, it's like playing rock, paper, scissor where where you pick scissor and you nerf rock because you cant beat it, but you leave the paper be because paper is just fine where it is (thanks for the comparison Muskie). If you want to ban a comp because of the viewers do it in the NWL but do not ban a comp just because of the viewers in a tournament where money is on the line and people are to narrow minded.
While in all honesty I think double boomking brings the opportunity for more entertaining games, people will have to use their brain and not just run mid as bots, but people dont like change and wants their safe old mid strat instead of having to use their brain.
I feel the complete opposit, for once there has been some change and now people are getting punished for being creative. Last twinkcup everyone were running the same comp both in arena and WSG and running double boomkin deffinetly opens up for new comps as people will have to counter it and not just run mid like a clueless bot.
I feel like the biggest reason people wants to ban double boomkin banned is because they are way to locked down in their own little box and have the idea that playing mid is the only way to win a game, it's not like double boomkin doesnt have counters, certainly aint easy to keep a hunter FC alive for long. A great team is a flexible team, adapting to the situations, thinking outside the box and a team being able to play against whatever strat they are facing. People should just start to open their eyes for counters, different ways to play the game, instead of pulling out the "Can't beat it... ban it..." card, it's like playing rock, paper, scissor where where you pick scissor and you nerf rock because you cant beat it, but you leave the paper be because paper is just fine where it is (thanks for the comparison Muskie). If you want to ban a comp because of the viewers do it in the NWL but do not ban a comp just because of the viewers in a tournament where money is on the line and people are to narrow minded.
"Blah blah we want partnership blahblah boring for viewers"
While in all honesty I think double boomking brings the opportunity for more entertaining games, people will have to use their brain and not just run mid as bots, but people dont like change and wants their safe old mid strat instead of having to use their brain.
I feel the complete opposit, for once there has been some change and now people are getting punished for being creative. Last twinkcup everyone were running the same comp both in arena and WSG and running double boomkin deffinetly opens up for new comps as people will have to counter it and not just run mid like a clueless bot.
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Mutando
Legend
I'm not the big anti double boomy proponent like it seems people are assuming. I've basically just said that Boomy is on par damage-wise with the other banned 2x classes, and that it deserves to be re-examined. I mean, there are just a lot or ways to look at it, everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter. Keg Smash is on par with starsurge damage. And you have 6 of them you can cast before cd, as opposed to just 2 kegs. I'm NOT arguing BM should be allowed, not arguing that wars should be. I'm just saying that whether people want to admit it or not, boomkin is on par with those classes... Deserves to be talked about.
Rusks
Legend
I agree and I don't. Boomkins have counters to their damage whereas warrior and bms really don't. I do think however baning spec stacking could open a door to more comps and classes being played or completely cookie cutter everything depending on how people see it
Maybe cut it down to no dps class stacking or something if it's too restrictive
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z3rgb3rg
Grandfathered
As a rule no spec stacking is the simplest and has the least need to be revised every content patch/expansion. It should promote at least some creativity in team comps and it also makes casting/following the game slightly easier.
Mildly related to this thread and previous paragraph i would like to see a series of plebmades with 1 spec per either side with a pic/ban phase. Something like maybe 6 bans total leaving 20 pics out of 24. Just to see some quality game play from specs you never see without forcing anyone to play prot warriors or pallys.
Mildly related to this thread and previous paragraph i would like to see a series of plebmades with 1 spec per either side with a pic/ban phase. Something like maybe 6 bans total leaving 20 pics out of 24. Just to see some quality game play from specs you never see without forcing anyone to play prot warriors or pallys.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
Double Boomkin comps are countered by itself. Because:
The arguements you guys are giving is that Hunters are squishy and can therefor be gimped.
However this is not the case unless you have a rogue to do so.
If a team is running a rogue then a Boomkin holds the flag to counter.
Therefor, hunters being gimpy is an invalid arguement.
The arguement that you can pre-heal a starsurge but you can't preheal a keg smash is irrelevant.
I don't understand how you can think about making this arguement when the main issue is that mid is a guaranteed win for a double Boomkin team unless both teams are running double Boomkin. That's why you see literally everyone running double Boomkin. On top of that, you have the flexibility of countering gimps by having a Boomkin sit in bear with the flag.
The arguement that restrictions on comps create less diversity is invalid aswell.
There will ALWAYS be a comp that is superior. Now you may disagree therefor I have a second arguement: Games are unhealthy. And you can't argue against this as it's a proven fact. The games are disgustingly boring to watch because nothing is happening unless both teams run double Boomkin. And even in that case, the games are one-sided.
The arguement that you can kick a Boomkin is invalid as no one in their right fucking mind is gonna position themselves far up enough to shear a fucking Boomkin. And no Boomkin is gonna go far up enough to get sheared.
The arguement that you can dispel their dot pressure is true but that's not the point. The point is that you are doomed in mid unless you're running a double boomy comp aswell.
The arguement that you want people to think outside the box is disgustingly bad.
If you have no stronger arguement than this then the arguements against double Boomkin will annihilate you.
I've addressed every arguement in this thread with good reasoning I believe.
The arguements you guys are giving is that Hunters are squishy and can therefor be gimped.
However this is not the case unless you have a rogue to do so.
If a team is running a rogue then a Boomkin holds the flag to counter.
Therefor, hunters being gimpy is an invalid arguement.
The arguement that you can pre-heal a starsurge but you can't preheal a keg smash is irrelevant.
I don't understand how you can think about making this arguement when the main issue is that mid is a guaranteed win for a double Boomkin team unless both teams are running double Boomkin. That's why you see literally everyone running double Boomkin. On top of that, you have the flexibility of countering gimps by having a Boomkin sit in bear with the flag.
The arguement that restrictions on comps create less diversity is invalid aswell.
There will ALWAYS be a comp that is superior. Now you may disagree therefor I have a second arguement: Games are unhealthy. And you can't argue against this as it's a proven fact. The games are disgustingly boring to watch because nothing is happening unless both teams run double Boomkin. And even in that case, the games are one-sided.
The arguement that you can kick a Boomkin is invalid as no one in their right fucking mind is gonna position themselves far up enough to shear a fucking Boomkin. And no Boomkin is gonna go far up enough to get sheared.
The arguement that you can dispel their dot pressure is true but that's not the point. The point is that you are doomed in mid unless you're running a double boomy comp aswell.
The arguement that you want people to think outside the box is disgustingly bad.
If you have no stronger arguement than this then the arguements against double Boomkin will annihilate you.
I've addressed every arguement in this thread with good reasoning I believe.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
The double Boomkin team isn't picking flag until they've won mid and the double Boomkin team isn't dropping flag to Boomkin until there's stacks high enough that the hunter will get gimped.
After this, sure double boomkin is taken out of mid. But now you're dealing with a standard 4 healer comp while stuck in your GY. Which you won't win mid against with a rogue.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
Stall mid vs double Boomkin for 5 minutes as thats the expected time for a 3 cap if you quick cap all 3 times?
You're kidding me right rofl
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
UGGTW was the better team yet HIA won. You've proven my point.
not really, the teams were pre even if you look at the actual players on the team, and my team had the disadvantage of playing alliance and still played very very close games verse a comp that people are now calling "OP" .
What possible reason would i have for vouching for a comp that beat my own team?
What possible reason would i have for vouching for a comp that beat my own team?
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