Scaling gear?!

Dreams

Dreams

fastest shadowstep in the west
I'm making this thread to address something weird that happened with this expansion.
A big part of twinking has always been building your character; reaching the "BiS" gear. Every expansion, and with some patches, the BiS 70 gear changes.
Usually everyone rushes to get whatever the new BiS items are, and then that's that.

With WoD a whole new world of gearing opened up as the scaling system was introduced in BGs and arenas, scaling all your items regardless of their original ilvl up to ilvl 283.
People were a little slower to catch on to exactly how the scaling system worked when WoD came out. Some of the slowest to catch on actually ended up looking badly at the new BiS gear, stubbornly sticking to their MoP gearset while calling out anyone using the new scary "scaling gear". These people seem to think that "scaling gear" is far superior to normal gear, and that using it is unfair.

Here is a comparison I did, using rogue as an example:

zeA0doc.jpg


The image obviously speaks for itself, but I'll say it anyway: the difference isn't that big.
Furthermore, the trinkets are really easy to get.

Thanks for your time.
 
DeLindsay said:
Topic will become moot when Legion hits since Blizz has decided that everyone should be identical in BG's and procs, Set Bonuses, etc will no longer work in BG's.
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yeah damn Dreams why would you make this thread when it'll be irrelevant 10 months from now?
 
Kageroo said:
Well, you should try to change more items, than just trinkets and ring.. Try for example your ring+trinkets and also
Wolffear Harness - Item - World of Warcraft
Aquamarine Signet - Item - World of Warcraft of agi/tiger
Basilisk Hide Pants - Item - World of Warcraft with Shadowleather Leg Armor - Item - World of Warcraft
Arachnid Gloves - Item - World of Warcraft of Tiger
and then compare difference...
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I understand you come from a low level bracket where those items are probably great, but in the 70 bracket we have gem sockets which makes all the items you just linked completely irrelevant
 
Onlydreams said:
I understand you come from a low level bracket where those items are probably great, but in the 70 bracket we have gem sockets which makes all the items you just linked completely irrelevant
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Except Gem Sockets are calculated into the stat spread. That's why the Level 80 Ashen Ring is superior at Revered (no socket) vs Exalted (socket). When you have say 3 gem sockets on an item it has considerably less secondary stats on it, so that once fully gemmed with BiS gems it's roughly the equivalent of a non socketed item, you just get the choice of what stats you want in said sockets. To top that off, Gems do not scale up, nor do socket bonuses. Granted if you're using Level 70 gear for a Level 70 then the lack of gem amount/socket bonus scaling will be minimal. Read up a little on it HERE and you can get an idea of why [MENTION=22292]Kageroo[/MENTION] made his suggestions.
 
DeLindsay said:
Except Gem Sockets are calculated into the stat spread. That's why the Level 80 Ashen Ring is superior at Revered (no socket) vs Exalted (socket). When you have say 3 gem sockets on an item it has considerably less secondary stats on it, so that once fully gemmed with BiS gems it's roughly the equivalent of a non socketed item, you just get the choice of what stats you want in said sockets. To top that off, Gems do not scale up, nor do socket bonuses. Granted if you're using Level 70 gear for a Level 70 then the lack of gem amount/socket bonus scaling will be minimal. Read up a little on it HERE and you can get an idea of why [MENTION=22292]Kageroo[/MENTION] made his suggestions.
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In addition to chest/leg items having 3 slots for lvl70s, which is the equivalent of pretty much doubling the offensive stats on an item, superior vs epic quality means those low level items scale worse as well. There are a select few slots where you can consider low level items, chest / legs are definitely not one of these slots.
 
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And as an addendum: the reason the low-lvl rings are good is because random enchants scale seperately from the baseline stats present on an item. This means that you effectively get double stat budget on them. Even then, there are only a few of these items worth using, because of the item's quality, and because of the stat allocations.

Low level items also tend to have ''wasted'' stats. Let's take these items linked by the low-lvl guy as an example:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=10777/arachnid-gloves

So these scale up to maybe (and I'm doubtful) 25 agility in arenas for lvl70-79. That's already less agility than present on any regular lvl70 epic. On top of that, for a Rogue you'd give up your 4-set bonus, and for monk/feral you'd give up an additional 2 sockets as well as secondary stats. The large amount of stamina on the gloves is also useless in most scenarios. Nature resistance isn't a relevant stat to begin with but even if it was, it wouldn't scale enough to be useful.

Then you want to count the random enchant of course, which is 10 agi and 10 stamina, there is no other relevant combination for this item. More wasted stats (stamina), and some extra agility which scales to perhaps another 20.

All in all you'd give up 2 sockets and secondary stats to gain what is maybe 15 agility, which is a net LOSS of stats. Rogues would never even consider these gloves because they can't give up their 4-set.
 
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Fx said:
In addition to chest/leg items having 3 slots for lvl70s, which is the equivalent of pretty much doubling the offensive stats on an item, superior vs epic quality means those low level items scale worse as well. There are a select few slots where you can consider low level items, chest / legs are definitely not one of those slots.
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Except they're not. It's been well documented by the 90-99 community that scaling disregards item quality. A Green item will scale EXACTLY THE SAME as a Purple item. Item Level also doesn't matter. If you find a Level 13 Blue from RFC that has a perfect stat layout for your Class/Spec then you can use that even over an Epic Level 70 item. Since Gems and the Socket Bonus from Gems DO NOT scale that means they are inferior to non-gemmed items and should generally be avoided. That's not to say they should be completely ignored as Set Bonuses (until Legion hits) are why some pcs are used and then you would obvious gem them up with BiS for that iLvL gear.

Now here's where it gets even trickier. Not all Levels of gear scale the same, as they should. Players found out that the Boots from AB (speed bonus on them) scale differently based on the Level used, with the lower Levels scaling slightly better. That's why there's so much confusion in regards to scaling in PvP, not everything obeys the same scaling rules set by Blizzard. BiS PvE gear for your Level is often times worse for PvP scaling unless you're in the 90-99 Bracket and are over Leveled gear wise as it doesn't scale down (some reaching iLvL 640+ in a 590 iLvL scaled Bracket). And Gems are almost always the worst option, save possibly the Helm for the run speed meta.

Fx said:
And as an addendum: the reason the low-lvl rings are good is because random enchants scale seperately from the baseline stats present on an item. This means that you effectively get double stat budget on them. Even then, there are only a few of these items worth using, because of the item's quality, and because of the stat allocations.

Low level items also tend to have ''wasted'' stats.
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This is correct and is why many choose proc items like Rings, Trinkets, Wapons as those also don't seem to obey Blizzard's scaling. It's also true that many low Level items have "shit" secondary stats, but not all do.
 
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DeLindsay said:
Except they're not. It's been well documented by the 90-99 community that scaling disregards item quality. A Green item will scale EXACTLY THE SAME as a Purple item.
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This is simply not true. Me and Dreams have tested extensively and uncommon quality scales worse than superior let alone epic.

The only time this is not the case is if the item is from Cataclysm or later (because that's when they did away with item quality meaning something). Any pre-cataclysm item will obey the original stat budgets of their set quality.
 
Here is a very simple, yet effective proof:

5hx8yaJ.png


Please stop talking about scaling when you apparently haven't tried anything for yourself. The uncommon item on the right is randomly enchanted, so it has DOUBLE STAT BUDGET, and it STILL HAS LESS OVERALL STATS than the epic item. Way less.
[MENTION=9694]DeLindsay[/MENTION]
 
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DeLindsay said:
Maybe the 70 Bracket hasn't been touched by the Blizzard quality control team and is the exception rather than the rule.
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Imagine if this was the level 70 subforum and we were talking about level 70 items and we don't actually care how it works in the level 90-99 bracket. That'd be weird.
 
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