US Returning from MOP, Questions

[Goesid]

adapt > aurora for a F2P, so youre wrong anyway

Only for classes that dont use foamspittle

 

[Chops]

Only for classes that dont use foamspittle

To be clear, Im speaking specifically about druids. Since thats the the contention. Allow me to explain.

TL;DR - if you look at each individual piece in a vacuum, absent the context of the whole gear set then yes, you're right. But the gear as a whole matters.

The reasoning goes that Fang/Slither sets and the superiority of Foam (because of the enchant) locks in 6 of a druids 15 gear slots. You can now make choices for 9 remaining slots. But the obviousness of things like party sync trinkets, lorekeepers ring, no haste helms, krom'gar shoulders, Cloak of the Brotherhood, etc leave you with just two slots to make a real choice about. Bracers and a ring. And essentially, it comes down to 3 vers or 5 haste (on average, depending on gear rolls).

"Do I want the situational haste that only really improves my performance by increasing the last tick of my hots/dots by 1-2 points or do I want like .05% more damage reduction" and that's personal taste and preference. There is no definitive choice here but I argue that vers > aurora for F2P because damage reduction helps mitigate their survivability issues. Might as well stack it because the best choices in the rest of your slots are vers pieces too. Throwing 5 haste at a toon that cant meaningfully stack haste is more or less a waste of that haste (hehehe) but it's not like the vers is noticeable either. Its ultimately a meaningless choice, but vers is in play more than haste is and is more consistent with the rest of the gear you'll be running. so adaptable > aurora.

But! you might say, an alliance druid will want to run dungeon aurora satchel shoulders because they dont have krom'gar gear and then aurora bracers and BG ring makes sense! And you'd be right. That could be up to like... 12? haste. Now we're cookin with grease. But primary stats > secondaries and my druid got some cool epic shoulders. That 1 int and 1 stam arent much, but given the hit secondaries take in BGs, its an obviously superior choice to dungeon gear. Which makes the bracers a better choice because 2 haste is meaningless given the rest of my gear but the vers in cumulative. And for horde druids, the choice is even clearer.

also, swag matters.

This *doesnt* hold true of vets, where enchants, higher stam gear options, and more powerful output can allow you to sacrifice a little here and there to pack on a more meaningful and useful amount of haste. Theres a reason I run aurora gear on my vet despite having the adaptable gear available. Within the whole picture, it makes sense. It doesnt on my (or any horde) F2P druid (yet. I bet SL changes the whole calculus)

 

[Goesid]

To be clear, Im speaking specifically about druids. Since thats the the contention. Allow me to explain.

TL;DR - if you look at each individual piece in a vacuum, absent the context of the whole gear set then yes, you're right. But the gear as a whole matters.

The reasoning goes that Fang/Slither sets and the superiority of Foam (because of the enchant) locks in 6 of a druids 15 gear slots. You can now make choices for 9 remaining slots. But the obviousness of things like party sync trinkets, lorekeepers ring, no haste helms, krom'gar shoulders, Cloak of the Brotherhood, etc leave you with just two slots to make a real choice about. Bracers and a ring. And essentially, it comes down to 3 vers or 5 haste (on average, depending on gear rolls).

"Do I want the situational haste that only really improves my performance by increasing the last tick of my hots/dots by 1-2 points or do I want like .05% more damage reduction" and that's personal taste and preference. There is no definitive choice here but I argue that vers > aurora for F2P because damage reduction helps mitigate their survivability issues. Might as well stack it because the best choices in the rest of your slots are vers pieces too. Throwing 5 haste at a toon that cant meaningfully stack haste is more or less a waste of that haste (hehehe) but it's not like the vers is noticeable either. Its ultimately a meaningless choice, but vers is in play more than haste is and is more consistent with the rest of the gear you'll be running. so adaptable > aurora.

But! you might say, an alliance druid will want to run dungeon aurora satchel shoulders because they dont have krom'gar gear and then aurora bracers and BG ring makes sense! And you'd be right. That could be up to like... 12? haste. Now we're cookin with grease. But primary stats > secondaries and my druid got some cool epic shoulders. That 1 int and 1 stam arent much, but given the hit secondaries take in BGs, its an obviously superior choice to dungeon gear. Which makes the bracers a better choice because 2 haste is meaningless given the rest of my gear but the vers in cumulative. And for horde druids, the choice is even clearer.

also, swag matters.

This *doesnt* hold true of vets, where enchants, higher stam gear options, and more powerful output can allow you to sacrifice a little here and there to pack on a more meaningful and useful amount of haste. Theres a reason I run aurora gear on my vet despite having the adaptable gear available. Within the whole picture, it makes sense. It doesnt on my (or any horde) F2P druid (yet. I bet SL changes the whole calculus)

Good shit. Lets go.

Haste will also reduce your cast time on your casts and global cd. If the reason youre clinging to that 1 vers over more haste, I'd recommend ditching your swag epic headress and get an 8 stam green from Hillsbrad or Aszhara. That 8 stam will do alot more for your survivability than 1 vers. That will also you net you some extra haste point.

Hah you thought I was going after the shoulders but I go for the head. Sneak attack.

swag is for mog.

Atleast youre onboard there.

 

[Kaxle]

let go of +1 armor kits

But you're suppose to be the beacon of light in the darkness that is NA F2P

 

[ohti]

swag is for mog.

Professor Hvnter, PHD in swagology here.

My professional opinion says that tmog is only a small part of swag.

 

[Chops]

Good shit. Lets go.

Haste will also reduce your cast time on your casts and global cd. If the reason youre clinging to that 1 vers over more haste, I'd recommend ditching your swag epic headress and get an 8 stam green from Hillsbrad or Aszhara. That 8 stam will do alot more for your survivability than 1 vers. That will also you net you some extra haste point.

Hah you thought I was going after the shoulders but I go for the head. Sneak attack.

Hell yea, got'em

I actually have an epic headguard of the innocent (same as epic patch) when I need a bit more stam. Vers isnt always about just survivability but also output. I run a little light on health (1700) but its enough to survive a rogue opener and aimed/arcane combos so I don't typically feel the need for more unless I'm FC'ing. So headdress it is for bigger swiftmends and hot ticks. Again, gear is about the whole set up. Not just a single piece by piece consideration.

But you're suppose to be the beacon of light in the darkness that is NA F2P

I know, I know. Goesid has harassed me enough about them that I'll be taking care of it this weekend. I just wanted to hang on to enchanting long enough to stockpile some stuff in case it matters in SL.

 

[Goesid]

But you're suppose to be the beacon of light in the darkness that is NA F2P

Thought that was Palonabanana. Nice druid btw, solid armor kits.

Hell yea, got'em

I actually have an epic headguard of the innocent (same as epic patch) when I need a bit more stam. Vers isnt always about just survivability but also output. I run a little light on health (1700) but its enough to survive a rogue opener and aimed/arcane combos so I don't typically feel the need for more unless I'm FC'ing. So headdress it is for bigger swiftmends and hot ticks. Again, gear is about the whole set up. Not just a single piece by piece consideration.

Yes I know what vers does, but you emphasized the survivability and ignored any other aspects so I figured you didn't find resto healing or damage lacking output. Oh if youre FCing adaptable is for sure bis. It is, and all of your regrowths and swiftmends arent gonna do their full capabilities, theyre gonna be too big alot of the time, especially if youre not the only healer on the team. Every time you overheal the output from your vers is useless and every point of haste you have collected is worth more because it reduces the time until you can cast the next heal.

 

[Chops]

every point of haste you have collected is worth more because it reduces the time until you can cast the next heal.

Only if its enough haste to make a difference. But you're talking about 5 haste before it gets nerfed by entering a BG. That's like arguing for 100 fps over 95. Sure, its better but its not enough that a human can detect it.

But, if you're stacking vers, it improves output while reducing input. Thats too good to pass up. Haste *only* improves output and only in very specific ways.

Oh if youre FCing adaptable is for sure bis

If you're a druid, you need to accept that you'll be doing some FCing.

 

[melabeari]

But you're suppose to be the beacon of light in the darkness that is NA F2P

Thought that was Palonabanana. Nice

 

[Goesid]

Only if its enough haste to make a difference. But you're talking about 5 haste before it gets nerfed by entering a BG. That's like arguing for 100 fps over 95. Sure, its better but its not enough that a human can detect it.

But, if you're stacking vers, it improves output while reducing input. Thats too good to pass up. Haste *only* improves output and only in very specific ways.

If you're a druid, you need to accept that you'll be doing some FCing.

All haste makes a difference unlike vers. There is never a downside. Sure its not 30% but Rome wasn't built in a day.
But it doesnt always increase your output, quite often it does nothing for your output.


Thank god we can make sets huh.

 

[Chops]

All haste makes a difference unlike vers. There is never a downside.

(with the caveat that we're talking fractions of percents here) But there's always a downside. In this case you'd be trading (ideally) 3 vers to get 5 haste. There's a downside. Vers is in play the entire time you are in combat. Its reducing input and improving output. Even if your hots are just ticking for 1 more every other tick, and the enemies dots are ticking for 1 less. Maybe there's a little overheal, but you'd be silly to argue that overhealing means you have too much int, so its also silly to argue it means you have too much vers.

Again, Im not arguing that haste isnt valuable or desirable. You dont have to sell me on it. Speed kills. But in the very specific "F2P druid with krom'gar or epic shoulders" niche (and maybe some others?) vers is preferred, given the realities of gearing limitations.

 

[Goesid]

(with the caveat that we're talking fractions of percents here) But there's always a downside. In this case you'd be trading (ideally) 3 vers to get 5 haste. There's a downside. Vers is in play the entire time you are in combat. Its reducing input and improving output. Even if your hots are just ticking for 1 more every other tick, and the enemies dots are ticking for 1 less. Maybe there's a little overheal, but you'd be silly to argue that overhealing means you have too much int, so its also silly to argue it means you have too much vers.

Again, Im not arguing that haste isnt valuable or desirable. You dont have to sell me on it. Speed kills. But in the very specific "F2P druid with krom'gar or epic shoulders" niche (and maybe some others?) vers is preferred, given the realities of gearing limitations.

Ye but again, those hots arent all gonna heal for their full value, if we are talking about always getting the biggest numbers, QB bracers would be better because your hots do bigger numbers. Did I not argue for dropping that high int headgear that is killing you?

 

[Chops]

Ye but again, those hots arent all gonna heal for their full value, if we are talking about always getting the biggest numbers, QB bracers would be better because your hots do bigger numbers. Did I not argue for dropping that high int headgear that is killing you?

any time a tick doesnt crit, crit is a wasted stat. And going from 7.3% to 7.5% crit at the expense of vers doesnt seem worth it.

Again, we're talking about consistency across the build. If I was gearing a boomkin, the crit makes sense. Especially when stacked with all my great crit gear. But as an aside to the rest of the build? naw.

And the high int headgear isnt killing me. I do just fine, ty. Though I'd be rolling headguard of solace if RNGeesus didnt have a sense of humor.

 

[tence]

Only if its enough haste to make a difference. But you're talking about 5 haste before it gets nerfed by entering a BG. That's like arguing for 100 fps over 95. Sure, its better but its not enough that a human can detect it.

Not to get in the middle of this but I can absolutely feel the difference in a few haste rating as a healer.

Carry on lads.

 

[Chops]

I can absolutely feel the difference in a few haste rating as a healer.

I said humans tence. You are a machine. You dont count.

 

[tence]

I said humans tence. You are a machine. You dont count.

Beep boop.

 

[Goesid]

any time a tick doesnt crit, crit is a wasted stat. And going from 7.3% to 7.5% crit at the expense of vers doesnt seem worth it.

Again, we're talking about consistency across the build. If I was gearing a boomkin, the crit makes sense. Especially when stacked with all my great crit gear. But as an aside to the rest of the build? naw.

And the high int headgear isnt killing me. I do just fine, ty. Though I'd be rolling headguard of solace if RNGeesus didnt have a sense of humor.

Now youre getting it.

Was page 1 that long ago?

Not to get in the middle of this but I can absolutely feel the difference in a few haste rating as a healer.

Carry on lads.

You gonna say stuff like this your presence is very welcomed.

 

[ohti]

Having a hard time believing that the topic of this discussion is the difference between a couple secondaries...

 

[tence]

Having a hard time believing that the topic of this discussion is the difference between a couple secondaries...

You need a very high IQ to understand the subtle nuances and hidden social commentary to fully appreciate the importance of this historic and groundbreaking thread.

 

[Chops]

Now youre getting it.

Was page 1 that long ago?

your implication here is that vers overheal makes vers worthless when that is not at all the case. You only think you're being clever.