EU+US Restricting classes in twink guilds?

[Dreams]

So I know there aren't many 70 twinks who use these forums, but I'm hoping to get some input from players of other brackets as well. Plus judging from the ladder section it seems there are a few 70 twink lurkers around.

A bit of background information / why this thread?

For those who don't know, I co-lead a 70 twinking guild called Ante Amanthe. It's been around for about 5 years and has since been the most active 70 community on the european realms.
Many times (including now) it has been the last remaining active guild in the face of an otherwise pretty dead bracket.

The main focus of the guild has always been PvE, although we have always had many PvPers, including myself, who just enjoy being around other twinks.

We have never banned dks or monks from entering the guild or joining raids. Our reasoning put simply: We're a 70 twink guild, not a "let's pretend it's still tbc"-guild.

This thread is being made following a small "uprising" of 60 twinks who plan to try out 70 twinking. They oppose our lack of class restriction policy and plan to make a new guild in which they can ban dks and monks from joining.
I had a longer discussion with their leader on the topic. But now I'm curious as to what the majority opinion is on the issue - so here we are.

If you were raiding in a 70 twinking guild, would you be for or against allowing Death Knights and Monks to join?

I'm personally for allowing them to join. My main arguments are:
1. There is no point in striving for tbc-like gameplay because you'll never come anywhere close, no matter how many rules or restrictions you add.
2. Every single class in the game has changed so dramatically since tbc that they could effectively be considered entirely new classes.
3. If you just want to re-experience tbc, why not just play a private server?

After a pretty long discussion with someone holding the opposite view, I can give you the arguments that he put forth:
1. Restricting classes might not make it entirely like tbc, but it helps.
2. I think that most people who twink 70 wouldn't want to play with monks and death knights.
Obviously I would like someone holding this view to step up and give some better arguments.

 

[DeLindsay]

When I made my 70 Twink I had a few things in mind. I wanted a Class/Race that was available during TBC (not WotLK and later) and one that could equip a TBC Legendary, even though the Bow is garbage. I went so far as to create a Character with a theme based on what would've been around back then, a Troll Hunter with a certain type of look, Name, Pet, etc. IMHO Twinking is Twinking, but, for a PvE only type old school Twink (short of LvL 60 DKs, because reasons) I'm a purest and would choose Guildees that met certain requirements. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Dreams]

@DeLindsay I understand that those are you views, but could you go into more detail as to why?

You see this is about as far as I got with the other guy I was discussing with. More or less "It's just how I feel".

 

[Hypno]

Why does this matter.
If you meet someone with a view that does not meet yours. fuck them..
Its a sad fact that 70s biggest guild is on a RP realm.
I would say why not accept monks and dk's. 70 is 70 right.
If the argument was 70 guild not accepting 79's now that's an argument i support.

 

[zweindigo]

Allowing all the classes makes it more accessible which helps out with getting enough people for the raids. If you want to be restrictive you'll probably have less players overall but if you're into it follow your (only) dreams amirite

 

[Dreams]

Why does this matter.

Sadly it does matter since these people with their newfound interest in 70 twinking would serve as a great boost in activity for the bracket, but because of their irrational view on class restrictions they won't join the already currently active guild.
So they'll make another guild which just serves to split the already small community in two.

It would be so much more beneficial to the bracket if we could overcome that difference and join forces.

If you want to be restrictive you'll probably have less players overall but if you're into it follow your (only) dreams amirite

Not sure what you mean by this but just to clarify: I'm for inviting dks+monks, not against it.

 

[Syrayeda]

well are members allowed to travel to northrend, pandaria, etc.? and are they allowed to equip level 68-70 wotlk dungeon gear? if they are, then i dont see a problem allowing dks and monks

the only downside of dks and monks i can think of would be that there are no set items for them in tbc, but i believe this is now outdated since pre wod set bonuses have been disabled, so there is no downside anymore

 

[Dreams]

well are members allowed to travel to northrend, pandaria, etc.? and are they allowed to equip level 68-70 wotlk dungeon gear? if they are, then i dont see a problem allowing dks and monks

They're definitely not restricting travel to any zones. Not sure about gear. (fyi 68-70 dungeon gear sucks at level 70)

the only downside of dks and monks i can think of would be that there are no set items for them in tbc, but i believe this is now outdated since pre wod set bonuses have been disabled, so there is no downside anymore

I've seen this mentioned by others as well but never understood it. With or without set bonuses being active, what's the problem with having classes that don't have tier sets? Wouldn't the other classes just be happy that there is less rolling competition on their tokens?

 

[Allybeboba]

More or less level 70 with TBC restrictions. This is no different than level 20 with Trial restrictions.
There was once a time I was not allowed to play in a Trial event because I had a Worgen character even though the rest of my character was restricted. At that time Trials did not have access to Worgens. I then made a restricted level 20 human paladin just to play with the Trials. In the course of crafting some potions I went over the restricted 100 proffesion skill by a couple points. People cried foul because I was not a "True Trial" So I leveled up to 24 and joined a level 24 guild.
Moral of the story, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If you do, it might end up biting you.

/cheers

 

[Dreams]

@Allybeboba I'm not sure what to take from your post

 

[Allybeboba]

@Allybeboba I'm not sure what to take from your post

By restricting people to doing what they want it is just going to "bite" you. They will end going somewhere else and forming their own unrestrained guild.

If your numbers are healthy, by all means do what you all want.

/cheers

 

[Fx]

By restricting people to doing what they want it is just going to "bite" you. They will end going somewhere else and forming their own unrestrained guild.

If your numbers are healthy, by all means do what you all want.

/cheers

Did you misunderstand his post or?

He is against banning things.

 

[Allybeboba]

Did you misunderstand his post or?

He is against banning things.

I did not state he was or was not. My post was neutral. The "you" is meant as a general term. I simply gave my experience from another bracket.

 

[Dreams]

By restricting people to doing what they want it is just going to "bite" you. They will end going somewhere else and forming their own unrestrained guild.

Ah I guess we agree then. It was a bit hard to tell from the first post.

 

[Stale]

Restrictions on classes were always the dumbest thing in these guilds in my opinion, most classes were not really OP at 70 in the expansion they were released (some did become OP later, but every vanilla class also had OP patches/expansions). Banning them was pretty much just for show.

Gear restrictions is something I would stand behind if they were ever followed consistently with a group of friends I could trust (and since the group would have to be 20 people large, it's probably why this never happens). Some of those guilds that go through all end-game raids at their appropiate level for example seems like something that could really be fun, they supposedly gear up in dungeons first before doing their first raid, then continue, though I guess nowadays this gear restriction isn't even enough anymore to make encounters hard, it could be more fun. Gear restrictions like "only TBC items" are practically useless though as talent and abilities have changed so much that you will always be overpowered at the appropiate level.

 

[zweindigo]

I did not state he was or was not. My post was neutral. The "you" is meant as a general term.

Same

 

[Awze]

I've seen this mentioned by others as well but never understood it. With or without set bonuses being active, what's the problem with having classes that don't have tier sets?

There's nothing wrong with it. Actually, if you want to put it up for argument, DKs and Monks not having a set bonus actually would put them at a disadvantage. I'll end up using "we" because my DK has been 70 for like 5 years now so I'm low key used to stuff regarding 70 DKs. But anyway, we dont' have the additional abilities that the sets grant Pallys and Rogues and so on. With how the bracket is now, there really is no point in separating classes in the bracket now due to how different they are and tiers don't really mean anything anymore. Only way to really even get anything like the real exp of BC is the private servers I mean now we have Hunter's who are melee, we have completely new abilities at 70 now, the whole talent system is completely different. With the game so different than it is compared to then, just trying to exclude DKs and shit from raids because "lol different expansion" is really silly.
I feel like I'm writing a research paper on segregation smh.

 

[DeLindsay]

@Onlydreams Let me see if I can push past "that's just how I feel" into something with better clarity. I started playing WoW when TBC was current (I Raided and did a little Arena pre-WotLK nerf), and while I don't find TBC as my favorite XPac there is that sense of "feels" or Nostalgia when playing an Expansion as a Twink that is how I first experienced WoW. That said, so much has changed that you are correct in your assessment that basically every Class is currently completely new (in comparison to older XPac's).

My effort to design my 70 Twink after ONLY what was available during TBC and pre-WotLK was more of a statement than anything else. My 70 Hunter does have WotLK Gear/Professions but I only use any of that while Soloing, with 1 exception, Jeeves. During the very few 70 only Raids I've done with him I used 100% genuine TBC Gear and nothing that any of my Professions can utilize past 375 Skill Level. Hell I'm even (slowly) working on Dungeon/Crafted > T4 > T5 sets for 'Progression' nights, since he's nearly BiS T6 now.

All that said, if I had him in a 70 Guild that did allow Monk/DK I can't say I wouldn't want to Raid with them as another poster said, it adds to the availability of actually getting TO Raid versus not having the minimum needed for certain Bosses. I don't discriminate against any Twinks, but just as there were times when 10's/20's were kicked from BG's I can see the point of RPers not wanting Monk/DK in a Level 70 Raid.

Hope that helped a little, still sounds "how I feel" ish.

 

[Stale]

Yeah but you're just roleplaying a douche for the sake of being a douche then, in my opinion. Roleplaying wise "monks" or "death knights" didn't release at a certain expansion (it's a universe, not a video game) and were around in the universe way before we got to play them as class.

The only reason people restrict classes is "because it makes it feel more like back then", but no. no it doesn't. Having old talent trees and abilities, consumables and two-thousand potions and having to manage your resources is what makes it feel more like back then, which you can't do because it's not available anymore.

I don't mind if people do not take other classes, but they shouldn't act as if they have a "legit" reason to do so. They just have a illogical personal reason.

 

[Dreams]

I'd just like to note that I don't think anyone restricts classes for RP reasons.