Reincorporating All Account Types In The 20-29 Bracket Into One Forum

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Kincaide

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The purpose of this post is to tell everyone in the 20-29 community which way the staff is leaning on a current decision we have to make concerning the new account statuses that Blizzard has made available. Though some of the following will be a repeat of things I have said on the topic elsewhere, I'm re-emphasizing it here for those in the larger 20-29 community who may not be aware of what's happening.

Twink Info as a website is primarily focused around creating, organizing, and delivering information. It is a wonderful side effect that the communities of each battleground bracket have established identities and utilize this platform to communicate with each other, but fundamentally this is not part of the primary objective of the site. The site's purpose, and therefore its organizational structure, is centered first and foremost around the organization and availability of information.

Because of the new development of Blizzard's "Veteran" account status, allowing a subscribing account to play at level 20 with Starter Edition restrictions while off-subscription, we realize that many users may fluctuate between different account statuses often throughout their twinking career, and from an organizational standpoint, we do not want users to feel like they have to change their group of friends just because they change their account status. Since Starter Edition accounts--both linked and unlinked--, and subscription-off "Veteran" accounts, and subscription-on "Subscriber" accounts all play in the same 20-29 bracket, and since an individual user's informational needs may fluctuate between any of those account types while their self-identity and their friends will not fluctuate so easily, it makes the most sense from an informational and organizational standpoint to roll all information that applies to any aspect of the 20-29 bracket back into one forum.

For those that don't remember, this is the way the organization used to be. At the time, approximately three years ago, the thinking was that by separating the Starter accounts from the Subscriber accounts, we would alleviate some of the tension that was arising between the groups. The culmination of this three-year experiment shows that the division not only did not achieve that goal, but arguably made the fracturing of the community and the enmity between the various groups even worse. In the present, in order to facilitate being able to change account types without the stigma of leaving or joining a social community at the same time, we are going back to having just one social community.

You're not all going to like it. Many of you are so entrenched in the us vs them dichotomy that you can't even imagine thinking of somebody with a different account type as being your brother in arms. Simply put, get over it. If you are mature enough to be a part of a community, then you should be mature enough to recognize when the fractured narrative is no longer working. You don't have to love everyone, but love or hate someone based not on the color of their account, but the content of their character.

I want to give everyone a chance to vocalize their thoughts on this. I want to emphasize that this is not a call for feedback on whether we should do this. As a mental exercise, let's say for the sake of discussion that this is a done deal, and process that and check your emotions and your egos and make calm, rational, well-thought-out and well-spoken posts about your reaction to such an idea.

In truth, it is not a done deal or a foregone conclusion, as the staff is still discussing it and because of course Shane is the final decision maker in all things. There are also unaddressed matters of how we go about reincorporating the various groups, but for the time being let's leave those concerns outside the scope of this thread. Nothing is set in stone, but we want to gauge how maturely you're going to take it if we do pull the trigger on this.

Every person's reaction is equally valid on this no matter what account type or even what bracket they currently play in, so please don't let me see you guys arguing with each other about each other's stances. Talk to me about how you feel.
 
Good idea.

You're not all going to like it. Many of you are so entrenched in the us vs them dichotomy that you can't even imagine thinking of somebody with a different account type as being your brother in arms. Simply put, get over it.

/support
 

Pure F2P + Linked F2P + Veteran + P2P = one new uber-community. This thread is for your reaction to that.

...although it would serve you well to read the whole thing, because obviously if it were just that simple, then that's all I would have had to say.
 
I think that this would be a good change. Now that we have Veteran status, many people will be making some changes to how they twink and that's fine. I believe that Vet's are apart of the F2P community and the F2P community is a part of the 20-29 community. So in the end, our account types might be different but we all enjoy the same bracket.

I also believe that new tags should be made similar to the [EU], [US], and [EU+US] tag so we know how to get around so much information. A [VET] tag would let a person know that this thread has information relevant to those with vet accounts. A [29] tag could also be made as well if need be.

In the end, I think that this would be a good thing for the community. We shouldn't fight and argue simply because of our account type, we all play in the same bracket at the end of the day, so I would definitely welcome this change if it were to happen.
 
I support this and I just hope guides are stored / labeled in the correct manner so that where there are differences, people can easily find the guide they need.

Quite a few 29's post in the f2p section anyway. And over time so many more "pure" f2p's are going to become less and less "pure"

I will still be keeping my f2p's as "pure" f2p's, but I'm making at least one vet twink too, and I'm sure there are many others that will do the same. We may as well all discuss the bracket together, since we fight together.
 
One thing I didn't see mentioned was the impact of gear, enchant, and character scaling. It has greatly reduced the disparity between a f2p and 29.
 
The purpose of this post is to tell everyone in the 20-29 community which way the staff is leaning on a current decision we have to make concerning the new account statuses that Blizzard has made available.
The purpose of this post is to bully us.
...we realize that many users may fluctuate between different account statuses often throughout their twinking career, and from an organizational standpoint,we do not want users to feel like they have to change their group of friends just because they change their account status. Since Starter Edition accounts--both linked and unlinked--, and subscription-off "Veteran" accounts, and subscription-on "Subscriber" accounts all play in the same 20-29 bracket, and since an individual user's informational needs may fluctuate between any of those account types while their self-identity and their friends will not fluctuate so easily, it makes the most sense from an informational and organizational standpoint to roll all information that applies to any aspect of the 20-29 bracket back into one forum.
Completely wrong. That would increase the time needed to find information relevant to individual players. The information is organized perfectly except for the fact that you've dug in your heels to prevent veterans being represented. Simply put, your entire agenda is meant to combat stigma based on how a player engages in this bracket. You are attempting to force us to stop recognizing and making judgements about our differences. You want us to pretend we're all the same. We aren't. It's you who needs to get over it. We are not created equal, I'm profoundly sorry you've bought into that nonsense. You are attempting to save us from this lesson. Friendship is unconditional.

... by separating the Starter accounts from the Subscriber accounts, we would alleviate some of the tension that was arising between the groups. The culmination of this three-year experiment shows that the division not only did not achieve that goal, but arguably made the fracturing of the community and the enmity between the various groups even worse.
There's nothing wrong with rivalry. Other than posters like Lil, flaming in sections they don't identify with, the separation worked exactly as intended.
In the present, in order to facilitate being able to change account types without the stigma of leaving or joining a social community at the same time, we are going back to having just one social community.
This is your motive. Let's stop pretending it's about information or organization. We don't need you to hold our hands and walk us across the road. We're all wearing our big boy pants.

You're not all going to like it. Many of you are so entrenched in the us vs them dichotomy that you can't even imagine thinking of somebody with a different account type as being your brother in arms. Simply put, get over it. If you are mature enough to be a part of a community, then you should be mature enough to recognize when the fractured narrative is no longer working. You don't have to love everyone, but love or hate someone based not on the color of their account, but the content of their character.
It's you who doesn't like it. This is an us vs them game. If you don't like it go play minecraft. We don't need you attempting to recalibrate our compasses, we make our own decisions. How dare you attempt to relieve of us of that responsibility.

I want to give everyone a chance to vocalize their thoughts on this. I want to emphasize that this is not a call for feedback on whether we should do this. As a mental exercise, let's say for the sake of discussion that this is a done deal, and process that and check your emotions and your egos and make calm, rational, well-thought-out and well-spoken posts about your reaction to such an idea.
Vocalize with the knowledge that our efforts are in vain? Participate when we're not represented? You make it completely clear here that to you, it is a done deal. You're not asking us to weigh in. You're asking us to vent before you have your way with us. You're attempting to clear your conscience before a rape.

In truth, it is not a done deal or a foregone conclusion, as the staff is still discussing it and because of course Shane is the final decision maker in all things. There are also unaddressed matters of how we go about reincorporating the various groups, but for the time being let's leave those concerns outside the scope of this thread. Nothing is set in stone, but we want to gauge how maturely you're going to take it if we do pull the trigger on this.
If only you could get rid of [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION] you'd be a happy little dictator.

Every person's reaction is equally valid on this no matter what account type or even what bracket they currently play in, so please don't let me see you guys arguing with each other about each other's stances. Talk to me about how you feel.
OBEY!

So long as we speak the way you like about what you like we won't be subjected to you reorienting any subject you are faintly interested in. Stop locking our discussions. Stop boxing our discussions in. Stop telling us how to behave. Outside of the ToS you are just another poster. You should have stayed one. [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION] [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION] [MENTION=5141]Shane[/MENTION]
 
Activate, is this about the topic, or is this about me? Because if it's the latter, PM me. Your post makes it pretty evident that you're taking this--and making this--personal.
 
I love the idea, I will make sure to label any of my posts that that relate to certain people (f2p,vet,etc.) I also agree that over time we are all going to fall into one place (vets). I now like to think "pure f2p" as a simple challange like Crystalpall's Wandering Isle Stayer.

On a side note, not meaning to attack anyone, but there are a lot of threads that are just arguments about vets and f2ps yet mine gets locked for trying to resolve the issue. The hell is up with that lol?
 
Kincaide, do you think that merging the sections will cause more drama? As you've already mentioned, before f2p got their own section in late 2011, there was a lot of drama between p2ps and f2ps. Even though I'm for this change, I think that a lot of people won't like it and will intentionally try to create drama to prove some type of distorted view point. How would you combat this if this became an issue?
 
It's true, u locked the poll thread in the f2p section which pertains a ton of everyones opinions on what should be done. This major change is caused by veteran accounts and turtle's poll was a good start to represent what the community wants and to talk about it as well. but now u make this thread and want the same thing u just said everybody shouldnt be doing, to do. This isnt the first time u have done something like this, and tbh its aggravating. U split the brackets when there were only 2 factions, but now there are essentially 3 and u want to try combining them all together... Getting information is going to be 3 TIMES MORE TEDIOUS. Unless u guys implement some sort of way to SPLIT UP the 3 factions for easier reading / scoping thru. So it would literally accomplish nothing caompared to having 3 different "brackets". It would be 1 bracket with 3 different factions with 3 different places to put their threads and guides and so on
 
It's true, u locked the poll thread in the f2p section which pertains a ton of everyones opinions on what should be done. This major change is caused by veteran accounts and turtle's poll was a good start to represent what the community wants and to talk about it as well.

Well, I could open that thread back up, but the poll options are limited and don't include some of the most major options, including the option that many members have stated in other threads, and the one the staff is leaning towards, which is outlined in this thread.

I started this thread so that you guys could have a conversation about your thoughts surrounding this plan, without hijacking Turtle's thread. I also felt that it was important to give the 20-29 Subscribers a voice on this as well. I wasn't trying to stifle the conversation in that thread, just open it up to the whole bracket. This does affect them as well, since they can at any time become Veteran accounts if they wish.
 
I definitely think this is worth trying, once people get used to the shock of it being merged it will make things a lot easier now more and more people are trying vet and account type hopping. Labels before threads should suffice in finding what topics are relevant to you. This forum is fairly active but it's not active enough that you will have to wade through pages upon pages to find new relevant info. The 20-29 section barely moves each day, so I don't really buy it will be too tedious to look for info, especially with the different guide sections.
 
Starting from the beginning of a thought process here, and trying to remain as objective as possible. Veteran is not a new bracket. Neither was "f2p" when it came out, however the difference is f2p brought in a substantial player base to help create it's own entity. Veteran status is not bringing in any new players. Most veterans were previously f2p, still have "pure" f2p toons, and whether veteran or pure still have many of the same gearing choices, in fact, veteran gear is all inclusive of f2p gear with many pieces still being BiS. There are also cases where veteran accounts choose to play with f2p gear restrictions, and many p2p have done in the past.

This next part is more subjective. Change is obviously imminent, but instead of radical change, small steps seem like a good idea. Perhaps adding a [vet] tag for threads in both the f2p and 20-29 sections so readers understand what limitations are being presented. User discretion should be enough to dictate where threads are made.

No matter what happens it's not like the forum will explode or something, but combining 3 distinct populations with different limitations into one subforum is only going to increase clutter.
 
Well, I could open that thread back up, but the poll options are limited and don't include some of the most major options, including the option that many members have stated in other threads, and the one the staff is leaning towards, which is outlined in this thread.

I started this thread so that you guys could have a conversation about your thoughts surrounding this plan, without hijacking Turtle's thread. I also felt that it was important to give the 20-29 Subscribers a voice on this as well. I wasn't trying to stifle the conversation in that thread, just open it up to the whole bracket. This does affect them as well, since they can at any time become Veteran accounts if they wish.

That's why I mentioned "associated with f2p" includes 29s or anyone in our bracket.

Now I will admit that now I see that I might have been a bit stupid...I guess I automatically expected that since the f2p section was made and kept for a long time now...it would not have been removed (or merged). That's why I didn't include that option.

If its not to much to ask, could you at least make a "decision" based on the poll (or hell start a new one with your option). Because you pulled out and made a decision that we had not even considered...at least let us have a word In it...not a democracy?? The hell is this, north Korea lol? I want my opinion to take affect
 
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