necroaqua
Grandfathered
On no! People have classes they like to play! The horror!
Question about actual rating
- Thread starter Rockastansky
- Start date
On no! People have classes they like to play! The horror!
momus
Veteran
oh cmon dont start this shit lol
we all know why people like to play exactly fury warrior(have u ever seen arms on this bracket btw?) there is nothing about "unique" class stuff for vast majority of warrior players.
i dont really judge them, but its hella boring to q into rbgs full of furies, again and again
necroaqua
Grandfathered
People play fury warrior for many reasons. Including the class fantasy of being in people's faces and using 2 giant weapons.
But sure, lets go into a theorycrafting thread about warriors and contribute very little and put them down in hopes that everyone will realize that they are terrible people for playing something that is fun in a game that they pay money for and play in their free time.
momus
Veteran
first of all i've kinda solved op's initial request so dont u dare talking about contribution
second - i cant w8 to see u having much fun in 10x10 fury wars, every single rbg u queue in
im not dramatizing btw
for the last 2 weeks this is how eu 29 bracket looks like: 3-7 warriors on each side
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Rockastansky
Veteran
Meh, warriors are popular twinks because any heirloom turd hoarder with random BG crate gear is still 90% as effective as any other full twink warrior at the 29s (see all the arguments above about "my hybrid vers/haste/crit warrior is the best!"). It is not a major time sink/gold sink to gear up a competitive warrior. Combatants Claymore is the only real item that you "might" want to buy for a warrior, and its not even really needed. Those sell on BH for like 25k.
On the OTHER HAND:
You cant do that with a caster twink... you have some 180 intelligence pile that does like 20k dps or can't save anybody with weak heals. Casters you have to spend 2-3 hundred thousand to make it work correctly.
On the OTHER HAND:
You cant do that with a caster twink... you have some 180 intelligence pile that does like 20k dps or can't save anybody with weak heals. Casters you have to spend 2-3 hundred thousand to make it work correctly.
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momus
Veteran
this logic works for almost every single class and spec
Arkant
Freedom~
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Rockastansky
Veteran
I don't know how stuff is priced on other servers but stuff on BH is not cheap, if you are on a realm with people who don't know what costs what and get AH deals... great you win... "I walked away with a zealot blade and a BWB for 10k!"... you got lucky.
More importantly why most BGs are lopsided, because while leveling warriors are effective with greens/heirlooms, all others classes are not, even when scaled to 29... you just get trash on your team that can barely do 10k, or who's heals are worthless. Again, I'm not too concerned because these are just facts clearly reflected in actual game play, and require ZERO validation from anybody.
I'm not saying you can't wear some jack ass gear as a caster and not be decent with your "pvp super skills". But if you are telling me you are going to wear heirloom gear and greens and be even CLOSE to a good player who is BiS you are a delusional dumb-ass who likes to troll. The only class that can do that is the warrior, because stat stacking is not the ONLY option for them.
However:
I guess it also depends on what you think is "good dps" or how effective you actually are... I've seen people lose their shit when the do 50k and kill 5 people... great, I guess that's your bar... it's not the same for everybody.
More importantly why most BGs are lopsided, because while leveling warriors are effective with greens/heirlooms, all others classes are not, even when scaled to 29... you just get trash on your team that can barely do 10k, or who's heals are worthless. Again, I'm not too concerned because these are just facts clearly reflected in actual game play, and require ZERO validation from anybody.
I'm not saying you can't wear some jack ass gear as a caster and not be decent with your "pvp super skills". But if you are telling me you are going to wear heirloom gear and greens and be even CLOSE to a good player who is BiS you are a delusional dumb-ass who likes to troll. The only class that can do that is the warrior, because stat stacking is not the ONLY option for them.
However:
I guess it also depends on what you think is "good dps" or how effective you actually are... I've seen people lose their shit when the do 50k and kill 5 people... great, I guess that's your bar... it's not the same for everybody.
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momus
Veteran
what a good load of crap
zealot/claimore is very easy to get, there are tons of em on ah, retarded resellers usualy trying to sell this stuff for 5-10k for few days, but it allways ends up with 900g per blue boe sword at the end of the week.
speaking of impact in ipvp: what makes real difference is individual skill and pvp involvability(lol)
the problem of levelers is complicated and pretty much unsolvable with merged queues, but gear is probably last on the list here.
for ur information most of bis gear is green :^)
and warrior by itself is complete dogshit - take x2 crus from them and class will become tier475758, probably even worse than enh shaman.
zealot/claimore is very easy to get, there are tons of em on ah, retarded resellers usualy trying to sell this stuff for 5-10k for few days, but it allways ends up with 900g per blue boe sword at the end of the week.
speaking of impact in ipvp: what makes real difference is individual skill and pvp involvability(lol)
the problem of levelers is complicated and pretty much unsolvable with merged queues, but gear is probably last on the list here.
for ur information most of bis gear is green :^)
and warrior by itself is complete dogshit - take x2 crus from them and class will become tier475758, probably even worse than enh shaman.
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Rockastansky
Veteran
1) There are hardly any ever on BH, again not every realm is YOUR realm, and they are never cheap. When I buy a Black Widow Band for 900g on Bleeding Hollow I'll eat my words.
2) By greens I clearly meant non BiS inexpensive greens, as in random stuff you bought from the AH or found in the dirt.
3) If you are one of the 1 in a billion players that can magically turn a 180 intelligence non-scaled balance druid wearing random gear with a mish-mash of crit/vers/haste into a 100k per BG death dealer... GREAT you are a true champion of the 29s... but, I really doubt that you are doing that, because unfortunately simple math is still applied to you each time you press a button and do damage - your "super pvp skills" do not make that number magically increase or decrease. Saying that being geared is not as important as individual skill is just flat out retarded.
momus
Veteran
well if we are talking from this perspective than yeah - comparing prices on gfed items and 15-min-of-farm items is a good reason to make doctor appointment.
and yes im exactly that person - wearing random looms and some trash picked up during leveling, contributing more than most of bis twinks.
i especially enjoy the converstion since ive met bis geared boomie with bwb and cor today.
im not gona go hard on him, most likely he had a long time break with this char but he was literaly useless with his 300 int 20vers monster truck.
p.s. lost my shit after "billions of players"
imagine 2 mils of bfa active accounts
and yes im exactly that person - wearing random looms and some trash picked up during leveling, contributing more than most of bis twinks.
i especially enjoy the converstion since ive met bis geared boomie with bwb and cor today.
im not gona go hard on him, most likely he had a long time break with this char but he was literaly useless with his 300 int 20vers monster truck.
p.s. lost my shit after "billions of players"
imagine 2 mils of bfa active accounts
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Rockastansky
Veteran
well if we are talking from this perspective than yeah - comparing prices on gfed items and 15-min-of-farm items is a good reason to make doctor appointment.
and yes im exactly that person - wearing random looms and some trash picked up during leveling, contributing more than most of bis twinks.
i especially enjoy the converstion since ive met bis geared boomie with bwb and cor today.
im not gona go hard on him, most likely he had a long time break with this char but he was literaly useless with his 300 int 20vers monster truck.
p.s. lost my shit after "billions of players"
imagine 2 mils of bfa active accounts
You are just farming Zealot Blades every 15 minutes? I can see this conversation has just derailed the crazy train.
I'm glad you have a random perfectly non-provable example of some guy with a full twink that can't play to disprove everything I said... how convenient (somebody is hiding the fact that they were on the Harvard debate team, you crazy guy!).That's enough, thanks.
Arkant
Freedom~
This druid cost several 100k gold. It has a well rolled offhand, Cloak of Rot, BWB, Azora's Will, Engi goggles.You are just farming Zealot Blades every 15 minutes? I can see this conversation has just derailed the crazy train.
That's enough, thanks.
This druid cost 20k gold at most, probably closer to 10k. It doesn't have hard to get items, it doesn't have well rolled greens, it doesn't even have engi.
How large would you say is the difference in performance between the two druids?
necroaqua
Grandfathered
Black Widow Band is grandfathered and shouldn't be considered BiS for new twinks. The most expensive part of gearing a solid twink is engineering, and even that isn't an insurmountable upgrade.
Leveling warriors are not doing better than an enchanted twink in heirlooms/dungeon blues.
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Rockastansky
Veteran
It just depends on how many spells you cast during a BG or how long the BG goes, if the BG is long and there are tons of spells cast that 40 int is 40 times X spells, which will just BURY the heirloom gear druid as far as damage goes. I don't quite understand why the glass cannon build has stam on the gloves and not spell power, but cool. I'm not sure if you are answered your own question there or...?
*****
You can still buy BWB tho, so its still obtainable... I can't go get, say, Inferno Robe.
*****
I did not say that leveling warriors were doing better than full twink warriors... I said the gap between them is less than it is for other classes, a leveling caster and a twink caster are nowhere near the same power level. Hence, having non twink Furys on your team is not as bad as having arcane mages doing 200 damage bursts instead of 700.
Arkant
Freedom~
What?
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Rockastansky
Veteran
I already assumed you were.
Arkant,
You posted two links that had the obvious answer to your question. More int/spell power = more damage.. the longer the BG goes on the more spells are cast the higher the glass cannon builds damage will be over the other geared link. Now I can't factor in every single anomaly for every game, maybe one person is an idiot, maybe one gets farmed in a game and suffers, maybe one farms a GY for fake numbers... blah blah blah... nonsense aside over time it's simple math.
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
No one is arguing the druid with more int is better geared than the druid with less int. We're arguing against the bolded parts of...
Yes - you CAN do that with a caster twink. A caster "heirloom turd hoarder with random BG crate gear" IS 90% as good as any other full twink of that class/spec. You do NOT need to spend thousands more gold to make a caster work. (thats what the two druid links are showing - the one that didn't spend gold will be about 90% as effective as the one who did)
Leveling warriors are not "effective" - though I suppose it depends on how you define effective. A lot of people here are going to define it as being able to deal enough damage and put enough pressure to compete with a twink.
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Also just because you can buy BWB doesn't mean it isn't grandfathered. There is a very finite supply that will NEVER go up, only down as people equip them. No one considers them anything but grandfathered gear and a new twink can be BiS without one.
OP
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Rockastansky
Veteran
We need some maths here, cause you can just keep saying "90%" till you pass out.
1) How many damaging spells do you think you would cast as a druid over the course of say a decent game of Eye of the Storm, just lighting up every target you could, etc.? Cause that is what is really going to give you your "%" of how much more effective one build is over another as far as doing the one thing they need to do... damage.
2) I can't argue that the gap for Druids and Shams is far less than Warlocks/Priests/Mages as well... the later don't have a FREE BiS dungeon set to farm... so they don't have to buy as much gear. I will stipulate that that gap is obviously less for shams/druids since they have access to the set gear... but it is still not "90%" as good.
3) Grandfathered or not, I'm sorry it costs .5-1mil, you CAN still get it. It's just your choice to not have one. I don't have one, I won't pay that much for it, that's my choice, but that slot is still not currently BiS if I have an Azora's Will jammed into it, no matter what I say about it. There are some items I just can't get... period... I would consider that not BiS as a slot choice and I would call whatever a new twink can get BiS. This is a petty argument tho and not really relevant.