Pros and Cons of GY "Containment"

Ok I will say this one more fucking time because I'm getting sick of repeating myself in this fucking stupid argument.
*Not fully directed to Awesome.

Let me make this clear so you anti-containment guys understand . No matter how much you complain, whine or bicker containment and the mid strat will not stop in this bracket.

People act as if this is some new revelation. Containment has been going on for 2+ years.

People say ''why do you farm people?"'
Please bloody tell me what we are supposed to do if your team is too lackluster to hold mid. ''O YEAH LETS JUST WAIT TILL YOU GUYS COME MID AND THEN WE WILL KILL YOU THERE INSTEAD OF THE GY, TO MAKES GAMES FUN!''

It is not the opposing teams fault that you're getting gy farmed. That is an indication that your team doesn't have enough man power to hold mid. People say 5 man horde groups are farming. I was just on the other day where warsong warlords was containing the horde gy, so please don't act like this all one guild/faction.

Rogues are a main cause of the alliance getting into that position in the first place. No explanation needed

GY containment is not the bloody cause for decrease in activity. The main reason 19s had a hiccup in activity was the whole notion of chants and their negative effect on the bracket, mixed in with things like TI moderation and irl stuff.

I said in my ''restoring 19s'' thread that this is how 19s are, and if we are restoring it containment/mid strat strategies are what we will be playing
I got the 19 community together to play with these strategies, and pretty much 90% of the bracket does.

How does it destroy ''morale''? People have been telling how much fun 19s have been over the past few months. Some are even saying to me it's the best competivtive atmosphere 19s have had in a while. We've even started setting up premades again(which is on the basis of the ''containment/mid strat'')
The strategy gives moral not ''destroys it''


If you don't like this form of strategy then 19s isn't for you. It will not change. No matter how much you complain. no matter how much you whine, heck even if you form a committee, containment will not stop in this bracket.

Adapt or Leave

/Argument closed

Listen to this beautiful woman, people.

Until the new expansion hits, you'll have to stick to the "GY Containment" & "Mid Strategy". And even then there's no certainties that this new meta will change.

You just have to adapt and better yourself if you want to keep playing 19s.
 
pros: u get honor kills cons: causes saintwink to leave the game, so less easy honor kills for my team
 
Being on the losing end of a GY camping isn't fun.
Being on the winning end of a GY camping isn't fun.
 
New if people was communicating in BGs this wouldnt occur as often as it does, ofc if alliance has 4 priests and 4 hunters who knows how to press tab vs 4 rogues where 3 of them are for them selves and 1 is trying to make them work together, then much can't be done. What I'm trying to say is: work together, communicate and wether you hate them or love them learn from TL cause they communicate and look how they do. No offense to anyone getting hard feelings over that I gave probs to TL
 
I think the biggest issue here is that the word 'containment' in this context is one giant misnomer. For the kids who weren't paying attention during grammar lessons, that means an incorrectly designated word, or a word incorrectly associated with something to which it does not apply.

Farming and containment are the exact same thing in this bracket. Those who engage in and defend farming call it containment, those who get contained call it farming. Take the words themselves and their associated connotations away and you're left with the same type of activity - one team restricting the players on the other team to their own graveyard. Whether your team does this as some sort of strategy or because they like harvesting crops (read HKs), is all a matter of semantics and perceived intention.

I've been in plenty of games where the team doing the containing has been capped on and has come close to losing at the last second due to tunnel vision on the graveyard with a sneaky speed potting druid running wild outside of their view. If containment were merely a strategy on the road to victory, this would certainly never be the case and games would be over in minutes. I've also seen games where the opposing team runs straight into the graveyard as soon as gates drop without engaging mid or even thinking about objectives, and I've seen those same teams remain in graveyard without even so much as a hint of trying to get a flag. I've seen plenty of teams who have had more than enough opportunity to break away for a cap while holding flag as well, but choose to remain in the graveyard 'containing'.

Let's face it though and stop kidding ourselves. We're all twinks and a lot of us have been doing this since before they separated experience on and off, back in the days where we would gear up and go 60-0 in a WSG match from just running over levelers and undergeared players. Our entire in-game culture started its existence as a means to thoroughly destroy people who didn't put in the same time and effort into playing that we did. Like it or not, that culture still exists today despite the many changes to games and strategies over the years. For a lot of people, it's still fun to run players over and see your name at the top of the damage and kill charts. From one point of view, if your team is equipped to steamroll the other, why not have some fun and wreck people the way we used to?

I agree that it does hurt activity and morale to an extent, and generally only for short periods of time. I have seen players rage out and not queue for a few games, but they come back. Everyone comes back because this is what we do. If you intend on playing in the 19 exp off twink bracket, you accept that this is what happens and you either live with it and adapt, or become bitter and jaded and quit for a year at a time, only to come back and play a few games and rant on about how horrible things are compared to how they used to be.

The bottom line is that our community exists as a result of this activity back in the early days of the game, and it will continue no matter how much anyone cries on forums.
 
Here is my opinion on GY Containment/Farming

Pros
The list of Pros I am giving is from a logical point of view and that is how best you can justify the concept/strategy​

  • The most effective strategy in capture the flag type games, You can find this strategy being used in multiple other games that have respawn and designated respawn points.
  • Using this strategy you force team the other to do the same or their team will be at a major disadvantage.The reason for this is when one team goes at a group with a full 10 it will always be unlikely that anything less than another full 10 will be able stand toe to toe.
  • This strategy compliments teamwork more than skill, A strong team that communicates and coordinates will defeat a team of all stars that lack such. By me saying this does not mean that the teams who are doing this does not have skilled players I was just explaining that Team Work > Individual Skill
  • Compliments Ranged DPS- Range DPS are the kings of Battleground pvp, in such a open playing field a ranged dps thrives more so than a Melee as they can actually survive longer. Being able to do damage from far away and more so allowing their healers to be even further from the danger zone.

Cons
The list of Cons is on the opposite end of the spectrum as Pros, this is looking at it on how to have the most fun for all. Comes down to everyone being happy.​

  • The biggest part that I disapprove of with this Strategy is the fact that it keeps new players from growing into better players. For both sides of the spectrum. The Containing team once you have established dominance it quickly becomes shooting fish in a barrel and thus keeping the players who are partaking from growing individual skill and lacking the knowledge of what to do in many other situations. Also on the other side it keeps those who get contained from growing as a player as there is not possible way a player can compete versus a full team. Hence why when core groups that are experienced and know more than just the strategy are not queuing the games tend to be alot more balanced and fun for all.
  • Morale does suffer to the losing team, which in turn makes queue times longer and kills activity as a whole.
  • Growth as a community, Twinks are a dying breed. You compare pure numbers of twinks to numbers in wrath (3-4 games going at once) to today, it is just sad. It is very hard for a new twink to become a part of the community when they spend their whole time in the GY, giving the picture that this bracket is cutthroat and anti social (which really isnt the case).

Those are my pros and cons of GY Containment/Farming. Will the bracket die from people continuing to use this strategy, No it will not, will This bracket have a strong fun community with this strategy, No it will not. When people wait, wasting their time in queue to just be contained in a GY it will cause harsh feelings/opinion on the containers. There is no longer that respect for fellow twinks there once was.

Do I condone containment, No I do not, but I am not telling people not to do it. To tell people to not use the most effective strategy in the game is idiotic and your asking to be trolled. People like to win, especially people who have been playing this bracket and have built their teams around such a strategy.

How to Fight the Current Strategy

To be able to stand up and fight in this bracket anymore you must know people, you must be willing to group queue with those people and be willing to play the class role needed to win. Melee is at a huge disadvantage against the Mid Strat that it just hurts your team to play those classes. Unless you can utilize its utility to its maximum (Rogues coordinating Ambush to turn the tide for their favor for example)

If you want to complain about the bracket then do so, but do not just stand their and point the finger, do what you can to fix it. Do you solo queue often? Start looking for people to queue with, a Guild is the best place to do this but Battletag works aswell. Start with healers, get yourself a solid healing core and if you cannot find one build one, take your dps class and bench it and play a healer, learn their role and encourage others to do the same, once that is established compliment your healers with Range DPS. If you want to run a Melee class, Make it your FC, they can still be useful in utility and play a huge role in a Capture the Flag game, They can actually take the damage with the right healers.

Try to have fun, even in the worse situations make it somehow worthwhile. Set goals, my personal goal is always to try and get away from the GY once containment happens. If I get to the middle I feel like I have accomplished something weakening their containment slightly from the one/two dps they send after me.

I hope this helps, I would say add me to battletag and ask me to group with you but it has gotten to the point where I maybe play a few games a night and when I do I try to group with fellow guild members. But please do still add my btag and if I am not queuing with guildies or we have room for another I will try and get you a invite to the group.

This is just wrong. Coming from someone who has played 19s almost every night and only group queued four times since I started playing 19s in late December, it is clear that it mostly comes down to who has the stronger players and better class composition. For example, you can group queue but if you don't queue with a healer and end up getting into a game where your team has no healers and the other team does, you're going to have a very hard time winning. Also, you have to realize that just because there are players from the same realm in the same game, they aren't necessarily group queueing. I'm not saying that group queueing never happens but you have to realize that a lot of times these players are solo queueing and getting into the same games. With the high number of 19 twinks on the server Bleeding Hollow, this is inevitable.

It's not that horde group queues more, it's that horde has the stronger players and class composition in general. Compared to horde, there are only a handful of 'top tier' players that queue Alliance often.

Being on the losing end of a GY camping isn't fun.
Being on the winning end of a GY camping isn't fun.

I disagree, strongly. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who plays both factions. I play Alliance much more than Horde simply because Alliance doesn't have nearly as many skilled players, but I flip flop between the two factions depending on which faction needs players. So what I am trying to say here is that I get 'GY camped' far more than I 'GY camp'.

I enjoy being 'GY camped' as long as my team has at least one healer so that I am not dying within three seconds of resurrecting from the Graveyard. If your team has no healers then it is no fun. Another factor that takes the fun out of being 'GY camped' is when your team has rogues. It puts your team at a huge disadvantage and if any other class was in the game in their place, the chance of you being 'GY camped' would be less.

The only situations that being 'GY camped' isn't fun is if your team doesn't have healers, your team has lots of rogues, or their team has a rogue or warrior literally in your Graveyard.

[*] The Containing team once you have established dominance it quickly becomes shooting fish in a barrel and thus keeping the players who are partaking from growing individual skill and lacking the knowledge of what to do in many other situations.

This is absolutely false and I know by personal experience. Because I swap to the faction that is weaker and often get contained, I believe it has helped me improve a lot. When you are getting contained, you are put under higher pressure. I use it as a challenge to land as many kills as I can under this high pressure situation. Through being contained, I have learned how to burst enemy players through a method that, to my knowledge, only one other person in the bracket uses. From a healer's perspective, you will have to work really hard to keep your team alive and it will force you to work on your fake-casting skills.

To the original poster, Awesome, you queueing rogue is far more detrimental to the bracket than 'GY containment' is due to the high number of rogues queueing on your faction.
 
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Can mods start deleting this garbage? I'm being serious. Seeing these types of threads annoy the ever loving shit out of me.


-Idiote

It annoys you because you know its wrong yet you dont want to believe the truth.
 
Ok I will say this one more fucking time because I'm getting sick of repeating myself in this fucking stupid argument.
*Not fully directed to Awesome.

Let me make this clear so you anti-containment guys understand . No matter how much you complain, whine or bicker containment and the mid strat will not stop in this bracket.

People act as if this is some new revelation. Containment has been going on for 2+ years.

People say ''why do you farm people?"'
Please bloody tell me what we are supposed to do if your team is too lackluster to hold mid. ''O YEAH LETS JUST WAIT TILL YOU GUYS COME MID AND THEN WE WILL KILL YOU THERE INSTEAD OF THE GY, TO MAKES GAMES FUN!''

It is not the opposing teams fault that you're getting gy farmed. That is an indication that your team doesn't have enough man power to hold mid. People say 5 man horde groups are farming. I was just on the other day where warsong warlords was containing the horde gy, so please don't act like this all one guild/faction.

Rogues are a main cause of the alliance getting into that position in the first place. No explanation needed

GY containment is not the bloody cause for decrease in activity. The main reason 19s had a hiccup in activity was the whole notion of chants and their negative effect on the bracket, mixed in with things like TI moderation and irl stuff.

I said in my ''restoring 19s'' thread that this is how 19s are, and if we are restoring it containment/mid strat strategies are what we will be playing
I got the 19 community together to play with these strategies, and pretty much 90% of the bracket does.

How does it destroy ''morale''? People have been telling how much fun 19s have been over the past few months. Some are even saying to me it's the best competivtive atmosphere 19s have had in a while. We've even started setting up premades again(which is on the basis of the ''containment/mid strat'')
The strategy gives moral not ''destroys it''


If you don't like this form of strategy then 19s isn't for you. It will not change. No matter how much you complain. no matter how much you whine, heck even if you form a committee, containment will not stop in this bracket.

Adapt or Leave

/Argument closed

Howabout you run with a crap team and get GY CAMPED the whole game and see what it feels like. OH WAIT, thats right your one of those guys who premades with a 5man group that camps all the time which negatively affects the bracket causing new twinks to be turned down by this garbage. Not sure how you are getting pissed off seing how your "premade" team never even gets contained....
 
Howabout you run with a crap team and get GY CAMPED the whole game and see what it feels like. OH WAIT, thats right your one of those guys who premades with a 5man group that camps all the time which negatively affects the bracket causing new twinks to be turned down by this garbage. Not sure how you are getting pissed off seing how your "premade" team never even gets contained....

Coming from someone who has played 19s almost every night and only group queued four times since I started playing 19s in late December,

I disagree, strongly. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who plays both factions. I play Alliance much more than Horde simply because Alliance doesn't have nearly as many skilled players, but I flip flop between the two factions depending on which faction needs players. So what I am trying to say here is that I get 'GY camped' far more than I 'GY camp'.

I enjoy being 'GY camped' as long as my team has at least one healer so that I am not dying within three seconds of resurrecting from the Graveyard. If your team has no healers then it is no fun. Another factor that takes the fun out of being 'GY camped' is when your team has rogues. It puts your team at a huge disadvantage and if any other class was in the game in their place, the chance of you being 'GY camped' would be less.

The only situations that being 'GY camped' isn't fun is if your team doesn't have healers, your team has lots of rogues, or their team has a rogue or warrior literally in your Graveyard.



This is absolutely false and I know by personal experience. Because I swap to the faction that is weaker and often get contained, I believe it has helped me improve a lot. When you are getting contained, you are put under higher pressure. I use it as a challenge to land as many kills as I can under this high pressure situation. Through being contained, I have learned how to burst enemy players through a method that, to my knowledge, only one other person in the bracket uses. From a healer's perspective, you will have to work really hard to keep your team alive and it will force you to work on your fake-casting skills.

Please read this portion of my post again. I've group queued four times, two of them were on the Alliance faction. I get contained all the time and I enjoy it. I feel that it's a big contributor to improving my gameplay.
 
Staaaaahp with your trolling, already.


-Idiote

ill stop trolling when you stop trolling. looks like that probably wont happen anytime soon mate
 
ill stop trolling when you stop trolling. looks like that probably wont happen anytime soon mate

So you admit this whole thread has been a troll...big surprise. Why don't you stop wasting everyone's time? Looks like I'm talking about the wrong thread, heh. But both you and Awesome need to stop with this nonsense.


-Idiote
 
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So you admit this whole thread has been a troll...big surprise. Why don't you stop wasting everyone's time?


-Idiote

Did i say that? nah. I said ill stop trolling YOU when you stop trolling. Try taking a reading comprehension class smart one. I posted no more than 5 times this thread so you cant say "this whole time".( and all i did was respond to what you and agonist said lol" Just shows how quick to judge you are on a topic. Learn2ReadzBruh
 
Did i say that? nah. I said ill stop trolling YOU when you stop trolling. Try taking a reading comprehension class smart one. I posted no more than 5 times this thread so you cant say "this whole time".( and all i did was respond to what you and agonist said lol" Just shows how quick to judge you are on a topic. Learn2ReadzBruh

If it's not trolling then what would it be? Maybe propaganda bullshit?


Anyway, I'm done getting trolled or whatever you wanna call it. I suggest everyone stop responding to these threads too.


-Idiote
 
guys please lets try keep this OT.
pros:
your Epeen will grow.

cons:
your real-peen will still be short, shriveled and slightly peculiar shaped.​
 
If it's not trolling then what would it be? Maybe propaganda bullshit?


Anyway, I'm done getting trolled or whatever you wanna call it. I suggest everyone stop responding to these threads too.


-Idiote

Oh no hes making a suggestion Guys!!!! and he requests everyone stops responding to these threads, oh noes!!! nice to see you have command of everyones attention on TI now, you can stop trying to troll threads now. k bye
 
There are way to many gy containment threads here. The problem around it will never be solved anyway.
 

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