Awesome
<The Awesome>
Just curious as to what the actual arguments for and against GY "containment" are.
So far, what I've gathered is that GY containment apparently stimulates bracket activity while providing quick and easy wins for the team utilizing this method. Apparently Blizzard even condones it, judging from the changes to WSG they made a few years back.
Though this seems like a good concept in theory, so did communism: what I've observed over the passed 5-ish years of playing 19's is that the actual implementation of containment does not "stimulate activity," it instead destroys morale, lengthens queues, and ruins games for the team unfortunate enough to be queueing against a 5-man GY frenzy. Here are some interesting quotes from this thread, and a few others.
I understand that nothing will stop campers (oops I said it) from doing what they do, and that they pay for the game just as everyone else, but I just can't seem to find any reasonable rationalization for it.
Thoughts?
TO CLARIFY: I don't like you, if you do this shit, but it's cool. I'm just curious. I'm very aware it exists outside of 19s, and has been around since God created dildos.
So far, what I've gathered is that GY containment apparently stimulates bracket activity while providing quick and easy wins for the team utilizing this method. Apparently Blizzard even condones it, judging from the changes to WSG they made a few years back.
Though this seems like a good concept in theory, so did communism: what I've observed over the passed 5-ish years of playing 19's is that the actual implementation of containment does not "stimulate activity," it instead destroys morale, lengthens queues, and ruins games for the team unfortunate enough to be queueing against a 5-man GY frenzy. Here are some interesting quotes from this thread, and a few others.
I just assumed this wouldn't really occur in a bracket with low activity which is trying to get more and more active players to join it, my mistake.
Here is my opinion on GY Containment/Farming
Pros
The list of Pros I am giving is from a logical point of view and that is how best you can justify the concept/strategy
- The most effective strategy in capture the flag type games, You can find this strategy being used in multiple other games that have respawn and designated respawn points.
- Using this strategy you force team the other to do the same or their team will be at a major disadvantage.The reason for this is when one team goes at a group with a full 10 it will always be unlikely that anything less than another full 10 will be able stand toe to toe.
- This strategy compliments teamwork more than skill, A strong team that communicates and coordinates will defeat a team of all stars that lack such. By me saying this does not mean that the teams who are doing this does not have skilled players I was just explaining that Team Work > Individual Skill
- Compliments Ranged DPS- Range DPS are the kings of Battleground pvp, in such a open playing field a ranged dps thrives more so than a Melee as they can actually survive longer. Being able to do damage from far away and more so allowing their healers to be even further from the danger zone.
Cons
The list of Cons is on the opposite end of the spectrum as Pros, this is looking at it on how to have the most fun for all. Comes down to everyone being happy.
- The biggest part that I disapprove of with this Strategy is the fact that it keeps new players from growing into better players. For both sides of the spectrum. The Containing team once you have established dominance it quickly becomes shooting fish in a barrel and thus keeping the players who are partaking from growing individual skill and lacking the knowledge of what to do in many other situations. Also on the other side it keeps those who get contained from growing as a player as there is not possible way a player can compete versus a full team. Hence why when core groups that are experienced and know more than just the strategy are not queuing the games tend to be alot more balanced and fun for all.
- Morale does suffer to the losing team, which in turn makes queue times longer and kills activity as a whole.
- Growth as a community, Twinks are a dying breed. You compare pure numbers of twinks to numbers in wrath (3-4 games going at once) to today, it is just sad. It is very hard for a new twink to become a part of the community when they spend their whole time in the GY, giving the picture that this bracket is cutthroat and anti social (which really isnt the case).
Those are my pros and cons of GY Containment/Farming. Will the bracket die from people continuing to use this strategy, No it will not, will This bracket have a strong fun community with this strategy, No it will not. When people wait, wasting their time in queue to just be contained in a GY it will cause harsh feelings/opinion on the containers. There is no longer that respect for fellow twinks there once was.
Do I condone containment, No I do not, but I am not telling people not to do it. To tell people to not use the most effective strategy in the game is idiotic and your asking to be trolled. People like to win, especially people who have been playing this bracket and have built their teams around such a strategy.
How to Fight the Current Strategy
To be able to stand up and fight in this bracket anymore you must know people, you must be willing to group queue with those people and be willing to play the class role needed to win. Melee is at a huge disadvantage against the Mid Strat that it just hurts your team to play those classes. Unless you can utilize its utility to its maximum (Rogues coordinating Ambush to turn the tide for their favor for example)
If you want to complain about the bracket then do so, but do not just stand their and point the finger, do what you can to fix it. Do you solo queue often? Start looking for people to queue with, a Guild is the best place to do this but Battletag works aswell. Start with healers, get yourself a solid healing core and if you cannot find one build one, take your dps class and bench it and play a healer, learn their role and encourage others to do the same, once that is established compliment your healers with Range DPS. If you want to run a Melee class, Make it your FC, they can still be useful in utility and play a huge role in a Capture the Flag game, They can actually take the damage with the right healers.
Try to have fun, even in the worse situations make it somehow worthwhile. Set goals, my personal goal is always to try and get away from the GY once containment happens. If I get to the middle I feel like I have accomplished something weakening their containment slightly from the one/two dps they send after me.
I hope this helps, I would say add me to battletag and ask me to group with you but it has gotten to the point where I maybe play a few games a night and when I do I try to group with fellow guild members. But please do still add my btag and if I am not queuing with guildies or we have room for another I will try and get you a invite to the group.
Ok I will say this one more fucking time because I'm getting sick of repeating myself in this fucking stupid argument.
*Not fully directed to Awesome.
Let me make this clear so you anti-containment guys understand . No matter how much you complain, whine or bicker containment and the mid strat will not stop in this bracket.
People act as if this is some new revelation. Containment has been going on for 2+ years.
People say ''why do you farm people?"'
Please bloody tell me what we are supposed to do if your team is too lackluster to hold mid. ''O YEAH LETS JUST WAIT TILL YOU GUYS COME MID AND THEN WE WILL KILL YOU THERE INSTEAD OF THE GY, TO MAKES GAMES FUN!''
It is not the opposing teams fault that you're getting gy farmed. That is an indication that your team doesn't have enough man power to hold mid. People say 5 man horde groups are farming. I was just on the other day where warsong warlords was containing the horde gy, so please don't act like this all one guild/faction.
Rogues are a main cause of the alliance getting into that position in the first place. No explanation needed
GY containment is not the bloody cause for decrease in activity. The main reason 19s had a hiccup in activity was the whole notion of chants and their negative effect on the bracket, mixed in with things like TI moderation and irl stuff.
I said in my ''restoring 19s'' thread that this is how 19s are, and if we are restoring it containment/mid strat strategies are what we will be playing
I got the 19 community together to play with these strategies, and pretty much 90% of the bracket does.
How does it destroy ''morale''? People have been telling how much fun 19s have been over the past few months. Some are even saying to me it's the best competivtive atmosphere 19s have had in a while. We've even started setting up premades again(which is on the basis of the ''containment/mid strat'')
The strategy gives moral not ''destroys it''
If you don't like this form of strategy then 19s isn't for you. It will not change. No matter how much you complain. no matter how much you whine, heck even if you form a committee, containment will not stop in this bracket.
Adapt or Leave
/Argument closed
I understand that nothing will stop campers (oops I said it) from doing what they do, and that they pay for the game just as everyone else, but I just can't seem to find any reasonable rationalization for it.
Thoughts?
TO CLARIFY: I don't like you, if you do this shit, but it's cool. I'm just curious. I'm very aware it exists outside of 19s, and has been around since God created dildos.
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