Goesid
Twink Info Legend
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Groenboompje
Banned
Yeah the best team who plays as a team never wins because all players are lonesome warriors right?... We differ from opinion about this greatly but thanks for the great sig worthy quote again!
It is not about us seeking excuses, it is about you trying to show off (again) and fail (and get the usual backup by other <insert name here> like goesid the major forum troll). Youd could atleast put some effort into taking a screen in a good game to make your point specially after you posted allready one which does not add anything and defo not proves that locks are good.. We are not dumb people and we play this bracket 2. Thanks for the effort!What excuse will people come out with next for locks being shit @ 20? Please go on, I'd be happy to hear
Mesikämmen
pwner
Groenboompje
I have no idea what has this even remotely to do with the part of my post you quoted.
I am merely backing up Kiris point about locks being viable in the f2p bracket, but if you think the screens I've posted are worthy enough of "showing off", why thank you, I'm trying to do my best
"buuu u sack", I would hardly consider that as a backup hehe. I would have to say Mol and Alphasky liked my post where I stated that your arguments are bs, are they my usual backup and official forum trolls too?
Here we go, more excuses as I presumed. If you can't play a lock well enough to be considered viable and my proof is not sufficient for your requirements, what can I say? Keep on playing your hunter/armswarr/rogue/rdruid and have fun? And please explain what would your satisfy your needs of proofs if not SS's from PuGs, premades? You want a SS of a full 10v10 premade next? Arena screens? Please share your thoughts and we can decide if locks are shit or not as a team, buddy
ps. Could you clarify if you were in one of the SS's in the losing team, as that would explain why you just popped defensive stance
I have no idea what has this even remotely to do with the part of my post you quoted.
I am merely backing up Kiris point about locks being viable in the f2p bracket, but if you think the screens I've posted are worthy enough of "showing off", why thank you, I'm trying to do my best
"buuu u sack", I would hardly consider that as a backup hehe. I would have to say Mol and Alphasky liked my post where I stated that your arguments are bs, are they my usual backup and official forum trolls too?
Here we go, more excuses as I presumed. If you can't play a lock well enough to be considered viable and my proof is not sufficient for your requirements, what can I say? Keep on playing your hunter/armswarr/rogue/rdruid and have fun? And please explain what would your satisfy your needs of proofs if not SS's from PuGs, premades? You want a SS of a full 10v10 premade next? Arena screens? Please share your thoughts and we can decide if locks are shit or not as a team, buddy
ps. Could you clarify if you were in one of the SS's in the losing team, as that would explain why you just popped defensive stance
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Groenboompje
Banned
You don't understand the part of camping/mid controll and having a good team.. thats your problem if you cant think a little further
It does not show anything about locks just shows how bad pugs are and how bad premades with pocket healers are for this bracket. Just a score board does not say anything about wlocks. It has to many variables to measure it from the screens!
Thats the whole point, that trolling goesid does masks the problem (you try it 2 with putting words in my mouth) and alpha and mol just randomly clicked the like button.. for the joke but defo not for the reason behind it."buuu u sack", I would hardly consider that as a backup hehe. I would have to say Mol and Alphasky liked my post where I stated that your arguments are bs, are they my usual backup and official forum trolls too?
Im not bringing any excuses like i said before and you just ignore it and i can play wlock pretty well.. i played wlock even before you came to the 19s bracket so shoo and like i said, make a screen from a descent game not a crap one like everyone can see.Here we go, more excuses as I presumed. If you can't play a lock well enough to be considered viable and my proof is not sufficient for your requirements, what can I say? Keep on playing your hunter/armswarr/rogue/rdruid and have fun? And please explain what would your satisfy your needs of proofs if not SS's from PuGs, premades? You want a SS of a full 10v10 premade next? Arena screens? Please share your thoughts and we can decide if locks are shit or not as a team, buddy
I wasnt in those games, i would have wrecked you and made you rage afk like usual. I am just critical with people like you who bring alot cowpo and ego/epeen to this forum.ps. Could you clarify if you were in one of the SS's in the losing team, as that would explain why you just popped defensive stance
But nvm anyway, you are not able to look past your own ego and gameplay it looks like. Perhaps you can some day, there are hardly any on this forum who can which makes trying to discuss things so pointless when people are not open for other info and weight them with their own.
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CripzBlood
Legend
Premade yes, pocket healers no, gy farming no. GY farming and mid/gy control are two different things. We had one FC, 3 locks, 1 healer (for all 3 locks, not just me, so doesn't qualify as a pocket healer imo.). Also if you think I was GY farming, where do you think I got my returns? Their FCs came to their own gy 3 times just to drop flag for me to return?
When will people understand that GY/midcontrol are the most effective strategies under the current metagame? Probably never in this bracket
EDIT: Due to people QQing about my SSs being taken from a premade, I decided to try out a bg on my own and this is what I came up with in the first bg:
What excuse will people come out with next for locks being shit @ 20? Please go on, I'd be happy to hear
no1 that as played agaisnt you is going to buy ur bullshit.
i call it gy farming and mid farming.
lol so ur healers stayed behind ur ass healing u but cuz when other teammates got in range and they throwed them heals, so they are not ur pocket healers anymore.
and we know what warlocks can do, if u are expecting someone to know how good warlock is throw a SS, u can wait sit down.
but ik what u want with those SS´s, so next time show SS with bg time and with recount, dmg done, DPS, absorvs, healing taken, etc then yes we can ask why were u healed so much more then ur teammates?
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CripzBlood
Legend
Better argument than what Groenboompje + Cripz came up with
why do u think that?
is that ur opnion or u just acting like a clown for ur friends?
Groenboompje
Banned
Both, what do you think
Clowns can have opinions 2OH look, I can do it to. I don't see the fun of it though, but yeah its cause i am not a clown, must be the case here.
/ends sillyness
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Mesikämmen
pwner
Maybe your poor eyesight made you miss it, but I posted a screen from a random pug. I already asked you a bunch of times, what would make you consider lock a viable class? So far all I've gotten as an answer is ad hominems, "ur so clueles ive played longer than u" type of answers.
They just happened to hover the like button totally randomly and their cat jumped on the mouse, or? Just totally randomly liked it like that?
Your arguments have had 0 point so far, all you've said is "this proves nothing, i hate u ur a camper with premade l0l".Can you remind me what classes do you play in this bracket again? Give your chars names maybe? If you don't want to do it publicly, please pm me
Oh, and since you are so confident about your warlock skills, I have a challenge for you: Log your warlock, enter a pug bg (or get a 5man premade, idc), and show me how you did in the bg. Just read the underlined parts again and think of what the fuck you just wrote xD
I am open to all and any info, but so far all the discussion and info I've gotten from you are about how I'm bad, you've played longer than me, you would stomp me, my SS's are from shit games, etc. I would gladly hear some logical arguments about how you think locks are in this bracket atm, some serious discussion about the topic in hand, you know. Just let the hate/grudge/ego free, let it out of your body, think of your post before you write it and have some discussion on topic, will ya?
CripzBlood said:
You can call it whatever you want, my boy, but the cold fact is that controlling the enemy team is the most viable WSG strategy right now. Most fights start in the middle of wsg map, due to the fact that everyone has to pass it in the starting of the game. Wipe the enemy team in mid @ start, and if your own team is intact after that, you have control of the middle which means your FC is free to pass the middle. When you control the middle with majority of your team, you will also have a free chance of killing the EFC 10v1 (or 10 v however much enemies you let pass the mid @ start). After your FC has freely passed mid and you have returned the flag while effectively controlling the enemy team in the middle, you should start pushing the enemy team to their graveyard to gain even better control of middle. Your FC keeps on having a free pass through mid, and the enemy FC is trapped at their GY or unable to pass middle.
GY farming and GY containing are two different things as I've stated before. Midcontrol is the most effective strategy in WSG in the current metagame, you can see some 90 lvl RBGs and 19 or 20-24 recorded premade games, and you will understand this. When midcontrol lis succesful and the enemy team keeps on wiping, the best thing to do to win the game is keep on applying pressure on the team and pushing them backwards. And guess where they will go when they are overwhelmed? They will move back, back up to their own GY to receive help from their fellow teammates who are about to spawn from GY. This is why one-sided midcontrol often turns into GY containment. A succesfull GY containment will usually win you the game in about 7-10 minutes, depending on how fast your FC and how succesfully your team is able to keep the opposing team controlled.
Please feel free to PM me if you want any more help on pvp strategies, macros, class mechanics, anything you'd like to know really
I'll do my best to help, sincere offer.Hold your horses, what game are you talking about? Please further specify what game you are talking about and we'll talk about this.
Like I said before, "What excuse will people come out with next for locks being shit @ 20? Please go on, I'd be happy to hear".
After showing all the data from recount aswell as scoreboard, what will you want next? Keybinds, all my macros shown, arena screens with full recount data, 10v10 premade screens with recount, screens from 10,000 games to show how locks qualify as average?
"Clowns can have opinions 2"
Dat irony xd
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Mesikämmen
pwner
Just logged back on and realised I still had my recount data from the SS you quoted, here:
Let's see the numbers shall we?
First you wanted BG time. That is written in the scoreboard screenshot above, 22 minutes elapsed (2min before bg starts, 20min of actual wsg).
You wanted recount data for damage done. Here:
You also wanted DPS:
You wanted data of absorbs. No priests in our team that game and I don't have agm in my dps set so this one's empty. Here, anyways:
Healing taken, now here's an interesting one. I have pocket healers here and there, you say. I'm carried by my healers who follow me anywhere I go, right? I also added who I received heals from:
Now if you look closely, you can tell that about 60% of healing taken was done by me. That is from dark regeneration, healthstones, touch of the grave and bandages. Rest 40% of my healing received adds up to a total of 1881 healing received from other players. I got pocket healed the whole game for 1881 healing
Damage taken data you did not specifically ask for, but I'll add it here anyways:
Rest of the data are pretty irrelevant for a lock, things like rage gained, overhealing done etc. But please let me know if this didn't satisfy your needs and there's something more you'd like me to add from recount.
Druid
Legend
I'll throw my opinion in here too!
Mages aren't really good for damage and that pushback makes it even harder for them. Frost is the only viable/decent spec, I believe, because it's very different than the other classes, being able to work great with healers saving them, or with dps to freeze someone to his death and poly/interrupt enemy healers, but obviously you can't expect to kill hunters alone- you will be lucky if you get a second (or even a first) frostbolt cast. Puging is not generally easy.
Warlocks do have the demo and affl specs carrying their special tools but they are not enough. If you want tricks and utility just bring a frost mage. Destro is a very good spec though. It carries the best utility spells of the class (pet skills, fear, curse, slow) and great damage sacrificing the less useful utility spells of other specs like the situational leap or silence. You won't control the field alone in a way a hunter would, because warlocks are stronger in groups and against groups for longer fights where fear is better than the scatter shot and the area of the battle is more stationary. But in those group fights warlock is really worth the heals from his teammates. Ranged damage lets him switch targets easily, the curse really makes a difference because of short gcd and the fact you can throw it at as many as you want (mortal strike affects only one target) and the burst is one of the best in the bracket (p2p ice lance and mind blast+devouring plague beats it ofc).
To be exact with numbers for the burst macro withouts crits, you get 1850 damage in 6 secs. Succubus hits for 120-130 at the cost of 60 energy. This means you can do 3 hits starting from full 200 energy and 1 more extra since the succubus regenerates while hitting. That's 480-520 damage in 6 secs. Immolate ticks for ~75 every 3 secs if i remember correctly (maybe more but not less) so that's 150 or 225 damage (again without crits) if you have it on your target ticking while you use your 6 sec burst macro. Casting 2 Incinerates (4secs total) is 450 damage without crits and then casting 2 conflagrates (1,5 first gcd and then it's instant-1,5 second gcd only affects next spell you cast if target not dead) is ~500 damage without crits. Succubus auto-attacks every 3 secs for around 100 too so you get 200 or 300 again depending on timing with the macro like on immolate above. Using the lowest values that's 1850 damage in 6 secs and is done by 12-14 different hits so you are guarranted at least 2 crits (lowest 150 extra-highest 500 extra with two crits). You can actually kill hunters before they kill you if you are lucky with this (if you catch them with immolate and curse before they start attacking and you get some good crits). That alone says a lot about the class.
Anyway, I really hope I didn't make mistakes and the numbers helped anyone still doubting destruction warlock usefulness.
Mages aren't really good for damage and that pushback makes it even harder for them. Frost is the only viable/decent spec, I believe, because it's very different than the other classes, being able to work great with healers saving them, or with dps to freeze someone to his death and poly/interrupt enemy healers, but obviously you can't expect to kill hunters alone- you will be lucky if you get a second (or even a first) frostbolt cast. Puging is not generally easy.
Warlocks do have the demo and affl specs carrying their special tools but they are not enough. If you want tricks and utility just bring a frost mage. Destro is a very good spec though. It carries the best utility spells of the class (pet skills, fear, curse, slow) and great damage sacrificing the less useful utility spells of other specs like the situational leap or silence. You won't control the field alone in a way a hunter would, because warlocks are stronger in groups and against groups for longer fights where fear is better than the scatter shot and the area of the battle is more stationary. But in those group fights warlock is really worth the heals from his teammates. Ranged damage lets him switch targets easily, the curse really makes a difference because of short gcd and the fact you can throw it at as many as you want (mortal strike affects only one target) and the burst is one of the best in the bracket (p2p ice lance and mind blast+devouring plague beats it ofc).
To be exact with numbers for the burst macro withouts crits, you get 1850 damage in 6 secs. Succubus hits for 120-130 at the cost of 60 energy. This means you can do 3 hits starting from full 200 energy and 1 more extra since the succubus regenerates while hitting. That's 480-520 damage in 6 secs. Immolate ticks for ~75 every 3 secs if i remember correctly (maybe more but not less) so that's 150 or 225 damage (again without crits) if you have it on your target ticking while you use your 6 sec burst macro. Casting 2 Incinerates (4secs total) is 450 damage without crits and then casting 2 conflagrates (1,5 first gcd and then it's instant-1,5 second gcd only affects next spell you cast if target not dead) is ~500 damage without crits. Succubus auto-attacks every 3 secs for around 100 too so you get 200 or 300 again depending on timing with the macro like on immolate above. Using the lowest values that's 1850 damage in 6 secs and is done by 12-14 different hits so you are guarranted at least 2 crits (lowest 150 extra-highest 500 extra with two crits). You can actually kill hunters before they kill you if you are lucky with this (if you catch them with immolate and curse before they start attacking and you get some good crits). That alone says a lot about the class.
Anyway, I really hope I didn't make mistakes and the numbers helped anyone still doubting destruction warlock usefulness.
Spiriel
Legend
Healing taken, now here's an interesting one. I have pocket healers here and there, you say. I'm carried by my healers who follow me anywhere I go, right? I also added who I received heals from:
Now if you look closely, you can tell that about 60% of healing taken was done by me. That is from dark regeneration, healthstones, touch of the grave and bandages. Rest 40% of my healing received adds up to a total of 1881 healing received from other players. I got pocket healed the whole game for 1881 healing
Both good Restodruids and I would focus Zumio too
Also as Healer (who always plays in pug - damn u Alphasky for this lousy server!) I prefer healing Warlocks over Hunters (and all other dps) anytime!
You give me a WL with gear and a bit of passion and I gladly give you anything thats on my castbar.
I dont rly care for his/her dmg but its the overall experience with a WL that makes playing much more enjoyable.
edit: The support and flexibility a WL can give me, outweights other dps.
/vote for more WL in the Gulch
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Groenboompje
Banned
Stop putting words in my mouth. It masks and dodges the reality we talking about and you are just an annoyed replier atm. Grow up and not worth my effort to discuss with a kid. You only want to argue and be popular. I told you why I replied and I gave pointers and enough hints for you to realize what you are doing wrong. I am not going to do that for you. Even Cripz (no offense to you, you are a great guy but it's about how people here treat you like a person without a brain but you showed you defo got one) understands it, why can't you? I rest my case you are hopeless like many on TI.
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Mesikämmen
pwner
It's a wise decision to quit when you got no points or arguments left, and I respect that. See you in the gulch, anonymous EU (?) tinker
Groenboompje
Banned
What part of putting words in my mouth you dont understand and the part where i make you think about what you did?It's a wise decision to quit when you got no points or arguments left, and I respect that. See you in the gulch, anonymous EU (?) tinker
So you are not able to figure out what i am trying to do and then you just argue.. big girl.
Whatgoesup
Lost in Gnomer
He's a guy
Mesikämmen
pwner
I'm the one talking about warlocks, posting scoreboards and recount data about the topic.
What have you said in this thread that has anything to do with the topic? Stuff like "ur screens dont prove anything, ur bad i stomp u, ur carried by pocket healaz" is hardly constructive or on topic... And you're the one QQing about me starting arguments here ^^
I came here to talk about lock viability at level 20, you obviously came here to have a go at me. When you realised I'm not the type of guy who takes the bait and rages back at you, you leave with tail behind your legs. But hey, don't worry mate, everyone makes mistakes and I still don't have anything against you
I hope the day will come when you won't have anything against me, either.
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Groenboompje
Banned
Ok I'll try one more time...
Good day.
But it does not show anything in the sense you did. For you to figure out why..
Keep on going with this kiddo stuff.. Yes your screens doesn't say anything. You got rude towards me by assuming me being in that game of the screen and placed words in my mouth, my reaction was with the fact you rage afk when i kill you. And yes you were carried by pocket heals in some of your screen, i never said that about all the screens another assumption of you.
But you did not, just show some screens that proves nothing about wlocks.
Nope, another assumption you are very good at.. I tried to make you think about what you said and make you think a little further but that failed with you.. Cripz understood that perfectly.
You started the rage cause i didnt agree with the way you presented your viability.
I did the mature thing to do. I could go on and on and present facts or get annoyed like you and get rude, which i didnt even do without a reason, but i realised you are not the person people are able to discuss with.
I didn't make any. Alot assumptions again..
There must be a reason why you even bring this up..and I still don't have anything against you
Perhaps someday i will when you admit and stop gy camping/farming and or stop exploiting maps
Good day.
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Mesikämmen
pwner
What I wanted to prove was that warlocks can go and top the scoreboards in every single aspect as a f2p toon, I posted SS's of some BGs where I did exactly that, and on top of that posted some recount data. But hey, you can always keep on hatin' me!
Hahaha I was wondering why a totally random person would hate me, this explains
actually laughed out loud when I saw this! Thanks for the laughs! What you call GY farming is actually GY containing which is a very viable strategy to win WSG (as mentioned before), and I won't hesitate to use it in order to win the BG. What you call map exploiting is actually just smart coordination through the terrain, and something anyone can learn with just a little bit of effort.
"I hate u cus you can outplay me, both with coordinating the map and strategically"
This, my good ole buddy, is what you call putting words in your mouth. In reality, it is called reading between the lines.
I beg your pardon but I seriously can't be bothered to answer the rest of what you said in your post, going to bed now. Have a good night, my friend
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