Crilicilyn
OG
trespasser will own us all in the mathematics. the dude is just beast at it. he can't formulate live play situations, but solid calculations are your next best bet.
Oh question
- Thread starter Curley
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Trespasser
OG
I love you Crilicilyn 
And what can I say this kind of math is nothing compared to the differential equations I have to do during my studies (I study chemistry and we have to do a lot of physical chemistry and reaction kinetics which is all pure math).
And what can I say this kind of math is nothing compared to the differential equations I have to do during my studies (I study chemistry and we have to do a lot of physical chemistry and reaction kinetics which is all pure math).
tresspasser, thanks for showing me that, even though the quotes were flawed.
but i was thinking in a general manner, and i was thinking of LS when i said 70 damage chant. though its not necessarely a 1 PPM.
but briefly, said, even though i'm sure you are quite right in your maths. i can't help but to think that something was wrong in it.
i'll just redo my general maths, i know it goes way farther then that. but statistically...
let's say your guy has 20% crit with let's say 15 agi on weapon, and 18% crit if the 15 agi becomes LS. its quite evident the drop in crit will be compensated by the LS and its DPS. so the thing is, i hear people say that a 1ppm chant is better then crit. let's suppose LS is on a 45second internal CD the fabled 1PPM. LS pops once every minutes while your crits will technically pop more then once or two during that minute. thus seen like that, wouldn't crit become better then any PPM chants ?
basically all this is a simple question.
isn't crit supposed to happen more often then any PPM chants, and if so, then it means crit is better all together when it comes to DPS ?
back on topic, nobody answered my other question about DW.
is it true that you always want your MH to be your biggest DPS weapon and your OH always be your fastest weapon ?
but i was thinking in a general manner, and i was thinking of LS when i said 70 damage chant. though its not necessarely a 1 PPM.
but briefly, said, even though i'm sure you are quite right in your maths. i can't help but to think that something was wrong in it.
i'll just redo my general maths, i know it goes way farther then that. but statistically...
let's say your guy has 20% crit with let's say 15 agi on weapon, and 18% crit if the 15 agi becomes LS. its quite evident the drop in crit will be compensated by the LS and its DPS. so the thing is, i hear people say that a 1ppm chant is better then crit. let's suppose LS is on a 45second internal CD the fabled 1PPM. LS pops once every minutes while your crits will technically pop more then once or two during that minute. thus seen like that, wouldn't crit become better then any PPM chants ?
basically all this is a simple question.
isn't crit supposed to happen more often then any PPM chants, and if so, then it means crit is better all together when it comes to DPS ?
back on topic, nobody answered my other question about DW.
is it true that you always want your MH to be your biggest DPS weapon and your OH always be your fastest weapon ?
Omgimarogue
OG
jailbot said:
come back Dripsta! we need more skill in emberstorm!
Crilicilyn
OG
ArthurianKnight said:
This used to be the case, back in the golden days a fast OH gave excellent spell pushback, this was subsequently nerfed twice to the current limited pushback of 1-which pushes for twice the increased cast time of the old pushback swing. for the source wowwikki it. A fast OH isn't bad, just you don't need it to get the only pushback you would receive either way.
Crilicilyn
OG
can we please end this thread? both sides have argued their points and reached some mutual agreement to disagree, but acknowledge each others opinions. And dripsta is jailbot, he's on my realm, so i got Jailbot. GG
i got Jailbot. GGOmgimarogue
OG
Quelfep said:
most skillfullest rogue ever duh
Doffe
OG
All you guys are talking about is dps based on math. This can indeed be true, but this is PvP, not PvE. You can't say a weapon is better because of calculations. How reliable are these calculations in PvP, where everything is very random and depending on how you're playing, what you are fighting and how they are fighting?
I don't say your maths are wrong, but PvP will have the randomness that can't be taken into your calculations. DR on dodge, yes, but you can be lucky quite some times with it too. You can also be lucky with crits, and more crit % makes it more likely to happen. The one crit that killed the healer that would perhaps not have been a crit without the extra little amount.
I am not saying TB is a good weapon, as I prefer alot of other weapons over it, but please keep the calculations to PvE.
Edit: Take the very nice dps calculator Trespasser released as an example. I could see that the dps difference between dual SF and dual CB (with the same enchants) on the lvl 1 doll was very similar to his calculations, but in WSG the difference was alot higher, simply because of the randomness in PvP.
Bláckóut uses Buzzer Blade with 15 agility in offhand in her burst set. It doesn't look optimal for overall dps in a PvE situation, but 29% crit and a SF with a procc enchant in mainhand must be fucking insane when it comes to putting pressure on healers because of the burst.
I don't say your maths are wrong, but PvP will have the randomness that can't be taken into your calculations. DR on dodge, yes, but you can be lucky quite some times with it too. You can also be lucky with crits, and more crit % makes it more likely to happen. The one crit that killed the healer that would perhaps not have been a crit without the extra little amount.
I am not saying TB is a good weapon, as I prefer alot of other weapons over it, but please keep the calculations to PvE.
Edit: Take the very nice dps calculator Trespasser released as an example. I could see that the dps difference between dual SF and dual CB (with the same enchants) on the lvl 1 doll was very similar to his calculations, but in WSG the difference was alot higher, simply because of the randomness in PvP.
Bláckóut uses Buzzer Blade with 15 agility in offhand in her burst set. It doesn't look optimal for overall dps in a PvE situation, but 29% crit and a SF with a procc enchant in mainhand must be fucking insane when it comes to putting pressure on healers because of the burst.
Omgimarogue
OG
Doffe said:
so i should roll wingblade + agi/scouts blade + agi because of the 'luck of the draw' aspect of the extra agility?
or does it just not matter what you roll, as long as you're lucky?
i think you've gone a little too far
calculations have their uses in every aspect of the game
Rivfader
OG
well think of it this way, crit and dodge are RNG, AP and wep damage are not. All you do with crit and dodge is try to stack the odds in your favor, but you will never guarentee that the percentages will hold true in the short term. AP and wep damage however will ALWAYS be there for you and also lead to bigger burst when RNG does favor you. Thats a big part of why I would favor a CB over a TB, especially in a PvP scenario.
Doffe
OG
PvP now, and especially twink PvP is really dependant on RNG, so why even bother when the numbers are so extremely low. I didn't notice any difference at all when I swapped my offhand from wingblade to SF. Maybe a tiny difference on recount, but definatly not on the outcome of the fights.
And tbh I like Bláckóuts set, because I think rocking 29% crit is more effective in PvP because of the burst, than the reliable steady damage of 2xSF with fiery. (even though calculations might go in the favor of the latter)
And tbh I like Bláckóuts set, because I think rocking 29% crit is more effective in PvP because of the burst, than the reliable steady damage of 2xSF with fiery. (even though calculations might go in the favor of the latter)
Rivfader
OG
Again, I don't really see how you can call crit reliable in short term fights, I used to rock a set that had me around 26% crit but stacking AP and wep damage just seems to give me a larger benefit in the short run because I'm counting less on RNG but when I do hit a crit string they are a lot bigger.
Doffe
OG
Rivfader said:
Because burst is often still more effective in PvP. Slowly hitting the healer with dual wield SF with fiery because of calculations someone has made for you will probably cause the healer to use more mana to heal himself, maybe making him go OOM in the long run. Fight will last a while, he will know what damage to expect and maybe his friends will join in. With a more crit oriented setup you could get some lucky crit spree (more likely to happen with more crit, obviously) that could force him to use cooldowns earlier, maybe even finish him off.
Doffe
OG
Indeed, I get your point, but what I am really trying to say is that using calculations in PvP is just a bit meh, since you can't really calculate what is going to happen. It depends on playstyle, RNG, buffs, skill and more.
People have their reasons for their weapon choices, and it is hard to argue about it, and in most cases you won't notice much difference anyway.
People have their reasons for their weapon choices, and it is hard to argue about it, and in most cases you won't notice much difference anyway.
Crilicilyn
OG
if i go back to my old setup i can break 31% crit again. but why would i? its less dps than a proc base and less bursty for healers. i'll trade 1 swing that can hit for 210 for a pair of swings that will hit for 270 + 2 weapon procs + enchant procs.