making a vet worth it?

[rockworldofwarcraft]

This gets at the heart of a lot of peoples problems

F2P have to play a little different than they vet counterparts. You're just not gonna compete in output and (typically) in what you can take via input. So instead of trying to play DPS arcane, maybe concentrate more on your novas and polys. Ret pallies are gonna have a rough life without crusader but theyre great offhealers and that stun is always nasty. F2P hunters can hold down entire swaths of mid with conc shot, pet slow and trap. A stam/vers built F2P rogue can be *extremely* disruptive even if it doesnt put out much damage.

You just have to adjust to what you're good at and remember that CC doesnt require gear or enchants.

I played a f2p haste warlock where I removed all the buttons except fear (I actually made it super sized with bartender in the middle of the screen)... did pretty well. Some specs f2P are just not worth playing and most accounts of them being "good" are just wishful bull shit coming from people who wasted their time on them.

 

[Chops]

Some specs f2P are just not worth playing and most accounts of them being "good" are just wishful bull shit coming from people who wasted their time on them.

the best spec to play is the one you enjoy playing but go off, I guess

 

[Kaxle]

the best spec to play is the one you enjoy playing

Especially true as F2P since everyone is just gonna assume you're retarded anyway so might as well enjoy yourself. Most specs can find something productive to do it just might not be pumping huge numbers

 

[Neon]

@ohti walder is definately not the best hunter, I still like him he is just not the best theres better hunters.

 

[ohti]

@ohti walder is definately not the best hunter, I still like him he is just not the best theres better hunters.

I didn't say best, I said scariest.

He's pretty much the only hunter atm that runs with pocket healers, 1200 health glass set, and pops consumes like saltwater. Most definitely the scariest mm in random bgs atm.

 

[Neon]

I didn't say best, I said scariest.

He's pretty much the only hunter atm that runs with pocket healers, 1200 health glass set, and pops consumes like saltwater. Most definitely the scariest mm in random bgs atm.

Honestly you should never run glasscannon on hunter ever.

 

[Chops]

Honestly you should never run glasscannon on hunter ever.

you can get away with it in pugs, esp with belt shield and pocket healers.

you gotta stop acting like anyone is playing WGs or cares about gearing like they are.

 

[Neon]

you can get away with it in pugs, esp with belt shield and pocket healers.

you gotta stop acting like anyone is playing WGs or cares about gearing like they are.

Even in pugs you shouldn't run around with 1200 hp lmao!

 

[Chops]

Even in pugs you shouldn't run around with 1200 hp lmao!

and yet

 

[ohti]

Honestly you should never run glasscannon on hunter ever.

I agree.

 

[Daltert Moropi]

i'd say just make a ptp account and just try to get as much out as ya can until SL comes out.

most of the gear will be replaced with the new content anyways.

also, with more land to grab items from and exploration, we're probably gonna be busy for the first week to month or so just farming all the new stuff.

 

[rockworldofwarcraft]

The problem is that spending 2 mil on a glass cannon hunter (or whatever it costs on your server, I have seen it that high easily on BH many times) set with all the consumables does indeed work with pocket heals... even if you have 1200 hp... who cares... you are annihilating people before they can be healed... that is just the facts.

Wargames or even random 5 mans vs random 5 mans is rare... 99% of the time you are just popping solo quers in the face with 1k+ crits... you dont need to be "good" to do that, you just need to understand basic math and have a dumb ass pocket healer that wants to heal you because you are in all purples and look cool. This has been a ROFL ranged XPAC from day one, and agility glass cannon sets just happen to be pay to win with the world drop super epics... GET OVER IT.

I agree that people need to stop acting like this shit is end game pvp (way to many of you fuck ass boys on these forums acting hard)... its crazy how defense people get about about this stuff... this shit is simple and 99% math based and 1% skill (maybe not that bad, but it's WAY less skill that yo want it to be).

 

[ohti]

The problem is that spending 2 mil on a glass cannon hunter (or whatever it costs on your server, I have seen it that high easily on BH many times)

Problem #1: you're playing BH.

set with all the consumables does indeed work with pocket heals... even if you have 1200 hp... who cares.

Ye, it can work if you don't get caught out by dps. If he gets in range of me, a disc priest, I can schism > penance > dot him for like nearly 1k damage if not more depending on schism crit. I usually roll with a group that coordinates damage, if me and 1 other person are in range of a 1200 hp hunter, that fucker is dead even if he pops defensives. To my team that's just a free kill. That being said, some hunters are pretty damn slippery and we can't really get into a position to secure a kill without risking too much ourselves anyways.

Wargames or even random 5 mans vs random 5 mans is rare...

I can't see wargames happening again in this bracket, at least not in the near future, but pugvpug games happen quite often.

I agree that people need to stop acting like this shit is end game pvp (way to many of you fuck ass boys on these forums acting hard)... its crazy how defense people get about about this stuff... this shit is simple and 99% math based and 1% skill (maybe not that bad, but it's WAY less skill that yo want it to be).

Just @ me next time man...

 

[Skindeck]

I also agree, don't go full glass. I only do it because I want to be remembered as the glass hunter with big hits =p
P.S. I don't use salts all that often, just rarely when I save up enough marks to get them.

 

[Malgibbon]

I found that F2P vers/crit arcane works well actually. Haste is important and some mix is needed for poly, but if you're getting more crits you can fly below the radar on many 5 man premade's heals sort of 'danger zone' for damage when spamming 4xramped up AB's until its too late and you're landing like 1.2k damage with back to back crits under 3 seconds

 

[rockworldofwarcraft]

I found that F2P vers/crit arcane works well actually. Haste is important and some mix is needed for poly, but if you're getting more crits you can fly below the radar on many 5 man premade's heals sort of 'danger zone' for damage when spamming 4xramped up AB's until its too late and you're landing like 1.2k damage with back to back crits under 3 seconds

Haste just does not work. Even these guys that have Family Seal/Time trial Ring/Hook Charm Neckless that try to pass 30%... at around 10% haste you are just losing damage every percent you go up because you are sacrificing main/stat and versatility (the bonus from them is just too high versus the small bonus to cooldown haste gives you)... you also just start to lose any burst. Again, it just looks like you are doing things faster optically... it is an illusion and it looks cool on your toons profile as you are "that guy doing something different".

Crit in BGs is just trash, its been trash, it will always be trash. You take it simply because its better than Haste.

World is just 100% different because you get to take full advantage of the goofy ass numbers and its just the wild west and should not even be thought about when attempting to balance anything. I've seen an arms warrior (cant remember his name) on BH just duel in gold shire in 100% crit gear and strength (I mean no other stats)... 50% of the time he gets luck with a crusader proc and just 3/4 buttons somebody (I'm talking about pure vets that act hard - dead)... 50% of the time crusader does not go off and he gets killed (badly)... looks like fun.

 

[ohti]

Haste just does not work. Even these guys that have Family Seal/Time trial Ring/Hook Charm Neckless that try to pass 30%...

...who is doing this? Nobody tries to get higher than 30%.

at around 10% haste you are just losing damage every percent you go up because you are sacrificing main/stat and versatility

Sure, you may lose output, but your output's speed also increases. On healers for example, in the current burst swap meta we're in, haste is huge for getting the heals to your team mates faster, even if they're not as big. I heal like 550 in my main stat vers set, in my haste set I heal like 450s which isn't that much lower and my cast time is reduced from 1.5 to 1.3. A 1.5 cast time is horrendous for casting flash of light. You need to be able to answer for the fast burst with fast heals / gcds.

you also just start to lose any burst.

Ye, on burst specs you usually want quickblade (MM hunter, boomkin, etc.) That's common knowledge.

Again, it just looks like you are doing things faster optically... it is an illusion and it looks cool on your toons profile as you are "that guy doing something different".

What the fuck...? How is it an illusion? Haste decreases your cast times and your GCD, what goes on inside your head to think that it's just an illusion?

Crit in BGs is just trash, its been trash, it will always be trash. You take it simply because its better than Haste.

This as a blanket term is just straight up stupid. Depending on spec crit can be trash, so can haste. If you're a marks hunter stacking aurora gear, yeah, you should probably re-consider rocking quickblade for the higher damage output. If you're a holy priest stacking quickblade gear, you're an idiot, re-consider rocking aurora (or if you're actually good, fireflash) gear.

Again, stop telling people how to gear when you don't even know how to yourself.

 

[Henry]

...who is doing this? Nobody tries to get higher than 30%.

Sure, you may lose output, but your output's speed also increases. On healers for example, in the current burst swap meta we're in, haste is huge for getting the heals to your team mates faster, even if they're not as big. I heal like 550 in my main stat vers set, in my haste set I heal like 450s which isn't that much lower and my cast time is reduced from 1.5 to 1.3. A 1.5 cast time is horrendous for casting flash of light. You need to be able to answer for the fast burst with fast heals / gcds.

Ye, on burst specs you usually want quickblade (MM hunter, boomkin, etc.) That's common knowledge.

What the fuck...? How is it an illusion? Haste decreases your cast times and your GCD, what the hell goes on inside your head to think that it's just an illusion?

This as a blanket term is just straight up stupid. Depending on spec crit can be trash, so can haste. If you're a marks hunter stacking aurora gear, yeah, you should probably re-consider rocking quickblade for the higher damage output. If you're a holy priest stacking quickblade gear, you're an idiot, re-consider rocking aurora (or if you're actually good, fireflash) gear.

Again, stop telling people how to gear when you don't even know how to yourself.

Fireflash really? Interesting, interesting.

 

[rockworldofwarcraft]

Sure, you may lose output, but your output's speed also increases. On healers for example, in the current burst swap meta we're in, haste is huge for getting the heals to your team mates faster, even if they're not as big. I heal like 550 in my main stat vers set, in my haste set I heal like 450s which isn't that much lower and my cast time is reduced from 1.5 to 1.3. A 1.5 cast time is horrendous for casting flash of light. You need to be able to answer for the fast burst with fast heals / gcds.

You are alone in this preference. You should know that just by clicking on... I don't know... ANYBODY ELSE'S Character profiles... its just main stat and verse for survivability. We already had the argument earlier where you said it was your personal opinion to not run mainstat/verse because it was "lazy".

Ye, on burst specs you usually want quickblade (MM hunter, boomkin, etc.) That's common knowledge.

While yes I agree that quickblade is nice... Adaptable is just better... now I will say this since you can't swap re-enchant gear unless you want 30 day breaks... that is the main reason to not use Adaptable - and if that was not the case I guarantee that people would go with +adapable over +quickblade. Damage is just better than crit in junior-pvp, since the glass cannon ceiling is already so high.

What the fuck...? How is it an illusion? Haste decreases your cast times and your GCD, what the hell goes on inside your head to think that it's just an illusion?

It an illusion, because the numbers are just not better, I'm sure I can count on one hand the amount of times where 1.2 actually save somebody versus 1.5 on a heal... you are argue different. getting to 1.2 (actual not the fake wow-number) might seem like a nice idea, but you are sacrificing a lot of survivability from losing verse (you already attested to this before)

This as a blanket term is just straight up stupid. Depending on spec crit can be trash, so can haste. If you're a marks hunter stacking aurora gear, yeah, you should probably re-consider rocking quickblade for the higher damage output. If you're a holy priest stacking quickblade gear, you're an idiot, re-consider rocking aurora (or if you're actually good, fireflash) gear.

We already went over this point before... 5 times... Glass cannon (mainstat + Verse) with 10% haste versus 10% crit is just not going to make that much of a difference over the coarse of 100 games.

Again, stop telling people how to gear when you don't even know how to yourself.

I'm basically just pointing out how 99% of "real twinks" are ACTUALLY geared... you seem to have your own opinion on this and I can't see where YOUR DATA is coming from.


Sorry forgot to quote the first one. Lots of people try to rock "off beat sets" to make them selves unique... I've seen plenty of people running Haste sets/Crist sets/Verse sets... its too much min maxing for junior PVP and it does not work out correctly. Maybe they don't play this way all of the time, but they have them... I've just seen the same people in the same sets a lot.

 

[ohti]

Fireflash really? Interesting, interesting.

It only really works on holy priest, holy pal to a lesser extent (lesser enough to the point where it's not worth the beacon micro managing just use aurora,) and maybe rdruid for a mid healing set (not holding flag.)

The idea is that fireflash offers the highest healing output, and with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=200128/trail-of-light on holy priest, you're effectively doubling your crit %.

I run high crit fireflash, about 28% crit and 17% haste outside of BGs (you can guestimate what that is in BGs I just don't remember myself) and around 210ish int with flask.

It's biggest flaw, obviously, is that it's 0% vers. However, ideally, your priest is in the back and not getting touched. It's similar to the veng DH FC theory, it's really good if you can manage not getting caught out, but if you play poorly, you're fucked. You can really feel the 0% vers when people reach you, and you're punished a lot harder for poor positioning than you would be with 15+% vers (usually punishment is just straight up death) but if you play it right, you do more healing.

Going from fireflash holy to aurora disc or even aurora holy is like putting training wheels back on your bike though. Once you're used to playing with 0% vers actually having vers just feels like easy mode.
[doublepost=1598282504,1598281327][/doublepost]

You are alone in this preference. You should know that just by clicking on... I don't know... ANYBODY ELSE'S Character profiles... its just main stat and verse for survivability. We already had the argument earlier where you said it was your personal opinion to not run mainstat/verse because it was "lazy".

Go click on every single link in the veteran's armory list and tell me how many armories out of the like 100 that are on there are pure vers main stat.

While yes I agree that quickblade is nice... Adaptable is just better...

Okay but literally no it's not lol. Crit offers more damage long term than adaptable and I've already told you this. Also, adaptable ring and bracers aren't even bis 2/5 is better.

It an illusion, because the numbers are just not better, I'm sure I can count on one hand the amount of times where 1.2 actually save somebody versus 1.5 on a heal... you are argue different. getting to 1.2 (actual not the fake wow-number) might seem like a nice idea, but you are sacrificing a lot of survivability from losing verse (you already attested to this before)

What spec do you play? I refuse to believe you play a healer. You sacrifice survivability but how about just don't get caught out in the first place? If you're a melee, sure, stack that vers. If you're literally anything else, why do you need the survivability? You shouldn't be getting caught out in the first place. Are you front lining for whatever reason? If you're using tanky sets to compensate for being a poor player just say so man.

I'm basically just pointing out how 99% of "real twinks" are ACTUALLY geared... you seem to have your own opinion on this and I can't see where YOUR DATA is coming from.

My data comes from the experience of the 3000+ BGs I've played in the past year, the thousands (yes, thousands) of armories I've reviewed, hours and hours of gear / hypothetical theory crafting discussions, funding hundreds of gear sets for players, etc.

Do you know how haste effects DoTs and HoTs? Do you know what the breaking points are for new ticks? Why crit provides more long term damage than pure vers? etc? Where do you get YOUR data? Because to me it seems ignorant and uninformed.

Lol @ "real twinks." Most of of you are bracket tourists, relax.