making a vet worth it?

[Chey]

You are alone in this preference. You should know that just by clicking on... I don't know... ANYBODY ELSE'S Character profiles... its just main stat and verse for survivability. We already had the argument earlier where you said it was your personal opinion to not run mainstat/verse because it was "lazy".



While yes I agree that quickblade is nice... Adaptable is just better... now I will say this since you can't swap re-enchant gear unless you want 30 day breaks... that is the main reason to not use Adaptable - and if that was not the case I guarantee that people would go with +adapable over +quickblade. Damage is just better than crit in junior-pvp, since the glass cannon ceiling is already so high.



It an illusion, because the numbers are just not better, I'm sure I can count on one hand the amount of times where 1.2 actually save somebody versus 1.5 on a heal... you are argue different. getting to 1.2 (actual not the fake wow-number) might seem like a nice idea, but you are sacrificing a lot of survivability from losing verse (you already attested to this before)



We already went over this point before... 5 times... Glass cannon (mainstat + Verse) with 10% haste versus 10% crit is just not going to make that much of a difference over the coarse of 100 games.




I'm basically just pointing out how 99% of "real twinks" are ACTUALLY geared... you seem to have your own opinion on this and I can't see where YOUR DATA is coming from.


Sorry forgot to quote the first one. Lots of people try to rock "off beat sets" to make them selves unique... I've seen plenty of people running Haste sets/Crist sets/Verse sets... its too much min maxing for junior PVP and it does not work out correctly. Maybe they don't play this way all of the time, but they have them... I've just seen the same people in the same sets a lot.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Ohti, you seem like a really nice person but this thread makes you look like you a psycho.

can people just agree that all twinks are not created equal and I’ve never seen anyone take being level 20 so serious.

 

[Counsel]

Ohti, you seem like a really nice person but this thread makes you look like you a psycho.

Just wait till he brings out the "LOL BAD" spam macro.

 

[ohti]

xD

 

[Chey]

This forum is a great place where anyone can come for help or advice. This is where I send new people to help them get started.

The really great thing about our community is that we have a solid group of players some who specifically only care about and play 20s. These players dedicate a lot of their time testing and crunching numbers to min max different class and specs.

I prefer to do this for a select few hipster specs where min/max will actually effect if the spec will work or not.

Others including Ohti have a much larger range and considerably more data across more specs, so when newer people make posts like “it feels” and “my opinion” based off no testing other than inspecting a few twinks and then try to pass their “knowledge” off as facts is down right frustrating.

So much time and effort has been put into actual research the last thing the community needs is misleading and outright false information.

Absolutely try new things or gear your toon how you like to suit your play style and please share this, I have no problem with that. Just please don’t try to pass it off as superior or the only way to gear when the fact is most of it is just wrong.

 

[Bestworld]

Honestly not worth.

However, you could make a character which BFA level will translate into SL lvl 20. Level 45 I believe? (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong) and gear it with the BFA and SL equivalent BiS for that level (can look up items to see what will be good in SL).

All of that could take quite the amount of time (enough for SL to come around, especially if you want multiple chars).

 

[ohti]

This forum is a great place where anyone can come for help or advice. This is where I send new people to help them get started.

The really great thing about our community is that we have a solid group of players some who specifically only care about and play 20s. These players dedicate a lot of their time testing and crunching numbers to min max different class and specs.

I prefer to do this for a select few hipster specs where min/max will actually effect if the spec will work or not.

Others including Ohti have a much larger range and considerably more data across more specs, so when newer people make posts like “it feels” and “my opinion” based off no testing other than inspecting a few twinks and then try to pass their “knowledge” off as facts is down right frustrating.

So much time and effort has been put into actual research the last thing the community needs is misleading and outright false information.

Absolutely try new things or gear your toon how you like to suit your play style and please share this, I have no problem with that. Just please don’t try to pass it off as superior or the only way to gear when the fact is most of it is just wrong.

Ye people don't realize how much goes into theorycrafting / minmaxing. We spend a LOT of time on this and I've seen a lot of "opinions" being spread that are just down right sub-optimal (which, hey, if you want to play your way go ahead I think variety does nothing but good for the bracket. Don't go around telling people it's the best way to play though because it's not.) Lotta ppl think they know the bracket in and out because they've played casually for a couple months now. Refreshing to see someone who understands this.

 

[tence]

Ye people don't realize how much goes into theorycrafting / minmaxing. We spend a LOT of time on this and I've seen a lot of "opinions" being spread that are just down right sub-optimal (which, hey, if you want to play your way go ahead I think variety does nothing but good for the bracket. Don't go around telling people it's the best way to play though because it's not.) Lotta ppl think they know the bracket in and out because they've played casually for a couple months now. Refreshing to see someone who understands this.

I have more fun figuring out sets then actually pvping

 

[ohti]

I have more fun figuring out sets then actually pvping

It's quite literally my favourite thing to do in this game.

Theory craft gear sets to fit hypotheticals so specific they'll never actually happen at level 20 (100 levels below max level) in a 15 year old MMORPG. I love my life.

 

[Asylum]

just made a new vet toon. i still think it's worth it...
pick something easy to gear, so the investment isn't a huge waste of time.

 

[Carbonated]

Playing f2p is fine , unless you get a huge buzz from globaling one person after another .

This is a comment from a new xpoff player.

I'm fine with learning how to deal with matches where I'm being farmed etc.

Probably not a popular comment haha

Maybe after I hit a few thousand kills I'll wanna up the pace and switch vet.

 

[Chops]

Its worth noting how rapidly a lot of this changes and also how situational a lot of builds can be if you're really trying to min/max like crazy. And how different it is from max level.

People put a lot of time (and a lot of gold) into collecting gear to build various sets and poke around to see what is and isnt optimal builds for various situations. And its deeply insulting when someone comes in, hovers around their tooltips for a few minutes and then declares certain stat weights and priorities are best. Especially when they seem only able to frame it in relation to duels or test dummy spam.

I'd trust the guy with like a dozen different bis sets and like 2500 games played across multiple expacs to tell you what is and isnt optimal stat priority for priests (and healers in general) and I'd be a bit forgiving if he gets testy when someone wants to argue with that.

 

[tence]

Its worth noting how rapidly a lot of this changes and also how situational a lot of builds can be if you're really trying to min/max like crazy. And how different it is from max level.

People put a lot of time (and a lot of gold) into collecting gear to build various sets and poke around to see what is and isnt optimal builds for various situations. And its deeply insulting when someone comes in, hovers around their tooltips for a few minutes and then declares certain stat weights and priorities are best. Especially when they seem only able to frame it in relation to duels or test dummy spam.

I'd trust the guy with like a dozen different bis sets and like 2500 games played across multiple expacs to tell you what is and isnt optimal stat priority for priests (and healers in general) and I'd be a bit forgiving if he gets testy when someone wants to argue with that.

But but... wargames though!!!! Wont someone please think about the wargames????

 

[Counsel]

Its worth noting how rapidly a lot of this changes

This says it all right here. Even the stuff we know about from PTR can have unexpected consequences down the road. Sometimes we don't even know about a change until it goes live.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I guess if it’s what you like to do then more power to you.

are you doing all that for 2vs2 or 3v3, rated battleground?

please don’t say pug, lol.

 

[Chey]

I guess if it’s what you like to do then more power to you.

are you doing all that for 2vs2 or 3v3, rated battleground?

please don’t say pug, lol.

Can’t speak for the others, for me there are 3 main things that I enjoy the most about wow and they all kind of compliment each other.

Number one is Theorycrafting. I find I spend more time doing this than anything else.
Number two is taking a suboptimal spec and making it successful.
Number three is getting into a BG where the odds are against you, wether it be class stacked favor or 2 or 3 twinks vs an almost full premade and winning.

If you can understand this then you will understand that it doesn’t really matter “what” you do it for, it’s simply the enjoyment.

If you think it’s a chore and the end goal is level 20 arena or war games then it doesn’t matter what I say, you will never understand.

Not even level 70 arena at its peak was anything close to what I would consider as competitive. Everyone is different I guess, you are right there. Just do what you enjoy to get the most out of the experience, that’s my advice.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

Can’t speak for the others, for me there are 3 main things that I enjoy the most about wow and they all kind of compliment each other.

Number one is Theorycrafting. I find I spend more time doing this than anything else.
Number two is taking a suboptimal spec and making it successful.
Number three is getting into a BG where the odds are against you, wether it be class stacked favor or 2 or 3 twinks vs an almost full premade and winning.

If you can understand this then you will understand that it doesn’t really matter “what” you do it for, it’s simply the enjoyment.

If you think it’s a chore and the end goal is level 20 arena or war games then it doesn’t matter what I say, you will never understand.

Not even level 70 arena at its peak was anything close to what I would consider as competitive. Everyone is different I guess, you are right there. Just do what you enjoy to get the most out of the experience, that’s my advice.

You sound like the most level headed person I’ve come across. Touche’

 

[xanx]

I feel bad y’all still have to deal with @ohti trying to gatekeep the bracket lol. No point rerol

It only really works on holy priest, holy pal to a lesser extent (lesser enough to the point where it's not worth the beacon micro managing just use aurora,) and maybe rdruid for a mid healing set (not holding flag.)

The idea is that fireflash offers the highest healing output, and with https://www.wowhead.com/spell=200128/trail-of-light on holy priest, you're effectively doubling your crit %.

I run high crit fireflash, about 28% crit and 17% haste outside of BGs (you can guestimate what that is in BGs I just don't remember myself) and around 210ish int with flask.

It's biggest flaw, obviously, is that it's 0% vers. However, ideally, your priest is in the back and not getting touched. It's similar to the veng DH FC theory, it's really good if you can manage not getting caught out, but if you play poorly, you're fucked. You can really feel the 0% vers when people reach you, and you're punished a lot harder for poor positioning than you would be with 15+% vers (usually punishment is just straight up death) but if you play it right, you do more healing.

Going from fireflash holy to aurora disc or even aurora holy is like putting training wheels back on your bike though. Once you're used to playing with 0% vers actually having vers just feels like easy mode.
[doublepost=1598282504,1598281327][/doublepost]
Go click on every single link in the veteran's armory list and tell me how many armories out of the like 100 that are on there are pure vers main stat.

Okay but literally no it's not lol. Crit offers more damage long term than adaptable and I've already told you this. Also, adaptable ring and bracers aren't even bis 2/5 is better.

What spec do you play? I refuse to believe you play a healer. You sacrifice survivability but how about just don't get caught out in the first place? If you're a melee, sure, stack that vers. If you're literally anything else, why do you need the survivability? You shouldn't be getting caught out in the first place. Are you front lining for whatever reason? If you're using tanky sets to compensate for being a poor player just say so man.

My data comes from the experience of the 3000+ BGs I've played in the past year, the thousands (yes, thousands) of armories I've reviewed, hours and hours of gear / hypothetical theory crafting discussions, funding hundreds of gear sets for players, etc.

Do you know how haste effects DoTs and HoTs? Do you know what the breaking points are for new ticks? Why crit provides more long term damage than pure vers? etc? Where do you get YOUR data? Because to me it seems ignorant and uninformed.

Lol @ "real twinks." Most of of you are bracket tourists, relax.

Ohti is the only “real” Twink in this dead bracket, what don’t you peasants realize?

keep data mining!

 

[ohti]

I feel bad y’all still have to deal with @ohti trying to gatekeep the bracket lol. No point rerol


Ohti is the only “real” Twink in this dead bracket, what don’t you peasants realize?

keep data mining!

How am I gate keeping when I've co-formed the biggest vet guild to exist since AP Twinks? xd