Mage/Warlock questions.

[Sinex]

So, I have decided to roll a horde character, and I have only seen one or two decent mage/locks come out of either side (not counting 24's,) so I am going to try my hand at it. BUT, since I haven't seen very many at all, my outlook on them is bleek.



My questions are basically;

-If well geared (let's say 1100HP, 1900mana, no AGMs, no pocket heals,) which class would manage better? I know skill is a factor here, and this is a rather broad question since I'm not naming spec or skill level, but I'm only looking for opinions and/or which specs are better than others on both classes.



-I THINK my wife is making a hunter this time around (she played healer for all three of our last f2p toons, and said she wanted to try it.) So, would either of them function better with a hunter? I'll probably get some frost mage answers here, but if that's what you want to say, I want to hear it.



We will be rolling on a server with not too many f2p'ers on it (already have it picked,) so AGMs as well as chest farming are being considered if we make these our main f2p toons, so if anyone wants to add input on which would be better with AGMs, go ahead.



Also a couple of armory links would be amazing for horde locks/mages. I have only ever looked at Bizr, and if I go warlock, I'm pretty sure I will try and gear like him/her, but is there a better one?





TL;DR



Which of the pure dps clothies would be better as a whole? I will do both Pve and Pvp. But please read the whole thing, heh.



Apologies for the length, I tend to ramble when making decisions like this.



EDIT: Spelling. Don't tell the mrs. (she's a teacher.)

 

[Mrcer]

So, I have decided to roll a horde character, and I have only seen one or two decent mage/locks come out of either side (not counting 24's,) so I am going to try my hand at it. BUT, since I haven't seen very many at all, my outlook on them is bleak.



My questions are basically;

-If well geared (let's say 1100HP, 1900mana, no AGMs, no pocket heals,) which class would manage better? I know skill is a factor here, and this is a rather broad question since I'm not naming spec or skill level, but I'm only looking for opinions and/or which specs are better than others on both classes.



-I THINK my wife is making a hunter this time around (she played healer for all three of our last f2p toons, and said she wanted to try it.) So, would either of them function better with a hunter? I'll probably get some frost mage answers here, but if that's what you want to say, I want to hear it.



We will be rolling on a server with not too many f2p'ers on it (already have it picked,) so AGMs as well as chest farming are being considered if we make these our main f2p toons, so if anyone wants to add input on which would be better with AGMs, go ahead.



Also a couple of armory links would be amazing for horde locks/mages. I have only ever looked at Bizr, and if I go warlock, I'm pretty sure I will try and gear like him/her, but is there a better one?





TL;DR



Which of the pure dps clothies would be better as a whole? I will do both Pve and Pvp. But please read the whole thing, heh.



Apologies for the length, I tend to ramble when making decisions like this.

It really depends on the player.



Bizr, Lazertag, and Tbagr are some of the best warlocks I've seen so far. They absolutely dominate but not like a hunter would dominate. They have great control which is what a warlock should be focusing on. If being focused, the warlock should be fearing that person, Keeping DoTs up, and Lifestealing. Your play style is to be a support class(no matter what the spec), Fearing, DoTing, and trying to stay alive while doing it. Control is the factor you have to learn to be good at.





As far as Mages goes, Arcane Mages are more of the derpburst dmg. While frost mages have a different type of burst dmg(no matter what their crit is, they will always have the most crit chance over other classes). But frost mages are one of the best support classes in the F2P bracket. They control arguablly better than a lock, but unlike a lock; their dmg is restricted to a single target. But they have great AoE-Control and good single-target slowing abilities.



If I were you, i'd probably pick a frost mage and go BE if you plan on teaming up with a hunter. Keeping melee targets off of the hunter while sheeping range is what you can do with ease. While the hunter nukes any targets that come to either of you.

 

[Sinex]

It really depends on the player.



Bizr, Lazertag, and Tbagr are some of the best warlocks I've seen so far. They absolutely dominate but not like a hunter would dominate. They have great control which is what a warlock should be focusing on. If being focused, the warlock should be fearing that person, Keeping DoTs up, and Lifestealing. Your play style is to be a support class(no matter what the spec), Fearing, DoTing, and trying to stay alive while doing it. Control is the factor you have to learn to be good at.





As far as Mages goes, Arcane Mages are more of the derpburst dmg. While frost mages have a different type of burst dmg(no matter what their crit is, they will always have the most crit chance over other classes). But frost mages are one of the best support classes in the F2P bracket. They control arguablly better than a lock, but unlike a lock; their dmg is restricted to a single target. But they have great AoE-Control and good single-target slowing abilities.



If I were you, i'd probably pick a frost mage and go BE if you plan on teaming up with a hunter. Keeping melee targets off of the hunter while sheeping range is what you can do with ease. While the hunter nukes any targets that come to either of you.

I like the details Mcer, thank you. It seems like Lock would be more my playstyle, but the frost mage idea is ingenius. Hmm. Any good mage armories? I really like what Tbagr has done with gear as well as Tmogging. I was already planning on going Orc, since my 80 wrathcapped Orc mage was my favorite toon for a long time when we came back.

 

[Mrcer]

I like the details Mcer, thank you. It seems like Lock would be more my playstyle, but the frost mage idea is ingenius. Hmm. Any good mage armories? I really like what Tbagr has done with gear as well as Tmogging. I was already planning on going Orc, since my 80 wrathcapped Orc mage was my favorite toon for a long time when we came back.

There is a long long list of ppl. Too many to remember. I havent seen a lot of them for awhile but from the top of my head i can think of these:





Deadvulcano, Cotus, and wintergreen. I know for a fact that those arent even a faction of the good mages who i play with but atm I cant think of the rest.

 

[Sinex]

There is a long long list of ppl. Too many to remember. I havent seen a lot of them for awhile but from the top of my head i can think of these:





Deadvulcano, Cotus, and wintergreen. I know for a fact that those arent even a faction of the good mages who i play with but atm I cant think of the rest.

Thanks, I feel silly; I snoop these forums all day and completely forgot about the armory thread. D'oh. Still such a tough decision though, I should just make both and get them to 20 eh?

Would still like some input/opinions from more people, though I think Mcer covered most of it heh.

 

[Aradiel]

Locks can still work well with hunters, not that hunters need any help, but the fear gets people off the hunter as well as a sheep, although is not as funny to watch. F2P mages are superior to locks in pretty much every way, although they don't get the class mount, which is a nice one.

 

[Mrcer]

http://chardev.org/?profile=312360



For a frost mage, I'd go with that set up. Crit is irrelevant since you have shatter. So you main focus should be stamina.

 

[Sinex]

Locks can still work well with hunters, not that hunters need any help, but the fear gets people off the hunter as well as a sheep, although is not as funny to watch. F2P mages are superior to locks in pretty much every way, although they don't get the class mount, which is a nice one.

Yeah I'd agree fear is more entertaining, and I am leaning toward mage right now after reading Deadvulcano's F2p Mage Review in the guide forum and remembering my old mage (/tear). I will probably go frost first til I get some gear then try out arcane, though I'm sure I would end up back at frost eventually. Thanks Aradial.



That's probably what I'll be looking for in the long run Mcer, thank you. /bookmarked.

 

[Fourtwennay]

In the past 2 weeks I've lvled/geared both mage and warlock (plus I have a priest). Now I'm p2p so I already had heirloom shoulder/cloak/staff, so keep that in mind, but I've loved the results I'm having.



Support class is a myth btw. Yes you can control exceptionally well as a lock, and frostbolt/frost nova/CoC make for great support as a mage, however I refuse to be merely a "support" class. I have topped the damage charts as both mage and warlock, as well as racking up several killing blows (my first bg I played on my lock I went 14-2 with 2 flag returns and a cap). If you are a decent player overall, you should have no problem excelling at these classes with practice.



Now, to answer your question more to the point:

If you want to do less burst but provide more functionality, go lock. Bane of Doom gives a lot of burst when it ticks, but you won't see that damage right away like most classes. Your fear is your friend, and is excellent for keeping people off of you. However you're still going to be eaten alive by even some of the worst hunters if they get the jump on you, until you get an AGM. Of course that's probably the case with both classes, as I'm constantly raging "OMFG I HATE HUNTERS!!!" in /bg. Pick what you want, lvl it, play a few games before investing time into being full BiS. If you don't like it, switch. Worse case scenario, you'll have a 20 lock and mage for when you get bored of either.

 

[Mrcer]

I think you misunderstood what I mean by support class.



By support class I mean they are great at doing lots of little things that make a big difference in the long run:



IE: Fearing ppl off ur healers so they that the healers have more room to breathe for healing ur teammates.

IE: DoT spamming the entire team. 2-3 Dots on a single person wont do loads of dmg right off the bat. But when you DoT spam 2-3 dots on 5+ ppl; the dots start to show up on the charts(Like you said, a good lock can top the dmg charts).



But if you put 2 warlocks and 2 hunters in a cage together; who do u think is going to win? It's not a trick question. It's obvious who wins. By support class I mean they are amazing when in the background, but if you put them in the front lines expecting them to pull off "a hunter" move then dont.





By support class I mean they are able to fulfil every roll if not most. IE: Boomkins can CC, DPS, Burst dmg(with cds), and offheal. Warlocks have better CC and arguablly better burst dmg than a boomkin, but cant off heal. Mages without a doubt have the most CC and decent burst dmg, but cant offheal and cannot perform AoE dmg like a boomkin/warlock.





Support classes should never be assigned to do "just one thing" because they can do much more than just "one thing". Boomkins shouldnt just be doing single-target spells. They should be dot spamming, offhealing with CC procs(regrowth)/rej, and using roots when ever possible. And even in some cases, needed to fc. Mages can easily be assigned to being the "CC guy" but when needed, they can easily fulfill a DPS roll through shatter and controling their enemies.





That's what I mean by support class. They support their team by fulfilling more than 1 role.

 

[Freeranged]

You want to help your wife while doing damage?



Roll a BalDruid. It's a slightly less potent mage in exchange for stealth and minor heals.

 

[Mrcer]

Golden, after reading your sig. I have offically tasted the rainbow.

 

[Grunge]

roll mage and sheep targets so you can set your wife up for aimed shots.



kill ALL the things!

 

[Bengalosch]

i can only talk for locks (check my signature):



- you will top dmg-charts easily as a lock (affliction= easy overall damage, less burst, destro = better burst, less overall dmg, way easier killing blows)

- you will have to push a lot of buttons (mages seem to be easier to play in that regard)

- when you are getting used to playing a lock, other classes may seem boring to you (played my pretty well equipped resto-shammy for an hour at the weekend -> too easy)

- good equip (LFH, BOA-Staff) is way more important for success, than for other classes

- destro may get less dmg - but remember draeneis shadow-resistance, which can get annoying

 

[Rhaen]

I'm still new to the f2p Bracket but been playing a lock (Savour @ AP Alliance) and it's great fun.

I haven't found it too difficult to learn but I've still got a long way to go. Destro is brilliant and you can win some 1v1's.

As others have said, Fear is an essential part of a locks playstyle.



Regardless of everyone saying it's underpowered you can really enjoy the playstyle and do well at the same time.

 

[Fourtwennay]

I think you misunderstood what I mean by support class.



By support class I mean they are great at doing lots of little things that make a big difference in the long run:



IE: Fearing ppl off ur healers so they that the healers have more room to breathe for healing ur teammates.

IE: DoT spamming the entire team. 2-3 Dots on a single person wont do loads of dmg right off the bat. But when you DoT spam 2-3 dots on 5+ ppl; the dots start to show up on the charts(Like you said, a good lock can top the dmg charts).



But if you put 2 warlocks and 2 hunters in a cage together; who do u think is going to win? It's not a trick question. It's obvious who wins. By support class I mean they are amazing when in the background, but if you put them in the front lines expecting them to pull off "a hunter" move then dont.





By support class I mean they are able to fulfil every roll if not most. IE: Boomkins can CC, DPS, Burst dmg(with cds), and offheal. Warlocks have better CC and arguablly better burst dmg than a boomkin, but cant off heal. Mages without a doubt have the most CC and decent burst dmg, but cant offheal and cannot perform AoE dmg like a boomkin/warlock.





Support classes should never be assigned to do "just one thing" because they can do much more than just "one thing". Boomkins shouldnt just be doing single-target spells. They should be dot spamming, offhealing with CC procs(regrowth)/rej, and using roots when ever possible. And even in some cases, needed to fc. Mages can easily be assigned to being the "CC guy" but when needed, they can easily fulfill a DPS roll through shatter and controling their enemies.





That's what I mean by support class. They support their team by fulfilling more than 1 role.

I got what you meant. And I wasn't trying to rebuke what you said. I'm simply making the point that some classes are labeled "support classes" and they are considered mediocre at best at things other than being a support class. But with proper effort/talents/skill/gear anyone can be a wrecking force if they desire, no matter the class. (Except ele shaman, they're pretty bad at 20

)

 

[R Prime]

http://chardev.org/?profile=312360 For a frost mage, I'd go with that set up. Crit is irrelevant since you have shatter. So you main focus should be stamina.

Good chardev - since you are horde I would add you should grab http://www.wowhead.com/item=62895 when going against 24s to get that extra hit.

Create a "Hit set" to swap out at will. Maybe add lavishly jeweled ring if necessary.

 

[Sinex]

I appreciate the opinions, everyone. I did end up going lock, since I do already have a mage at 20, though it is alliance. And since my wife is out of the house during the day and me at night, I figure I would go ahead and jump on the AP wagon for now, as an alliance warrior (since she doesn't want to.) I won't be downloading the addons right away, but when I hit 20 and get some gear, I will. but anyone who wants to add me can send me a message on here with their alliance name, I would like someone to talk to. heh. I'm fun, I promise.



Also, yeah I see what you meant Quetztal. I think I like having that little bit of burst as a lock, since healers can heal through the dots in affliction. I will likely make mine destro.

 

[R Prime]

I know you said you would wait but I would DL the f2p add on right away to get into the hot f2p action. It's nice to chat with folks and see if any events are running (premades, instance runs, rep grinds).



Peace.

 

[Sinex]

Good chardev - since you are horde I would add you should grab http://www.wowhead.com/item=62895 when going against 24s to get that extra hit.

Create a "Hit set" to swap out at will. Maybe add lavishly jeweled ring if necessary.

I hope I can last more than a few seconds with a 24. We'll see what happens. The server we picked would be easy for AGMs, as while we played last night, there were zero unguilded level 20's playing, so I'm assuming there were no f2p's (at least on horde.)