Lower-level Class Balance Issues & Solutions

[Doreah]

Blizzard speaks

 

[Doreah]

In a recent hotfix to the game, we reduced the base damage and increased the spellpower coefficient of Holy Shock.

We were seeing extremely high base damage at low levels, and made the change in such a way that it only has a moderate impact on characters at or near level 85.

By far, most of our effort is currently on level-90 balance, because that’s what’s important to most players. However, it’s not the only thing that’s important. We’re seeing some Mists of Pandaria changes causing a few balance problems at lower levels, especially in PvP. We’re working on fixing all such imbalances, and this is just the first of many changes. If you’re interested in discussing similar issues, I’ve just started a new thread about it them our class balance forum.

Details:
At level 10, Holy Shock damage has been reduced by 85%.
At level 85, with LFR gear, Holy Shock damage has been reduced by 39%.
At level 90, with normal raid gear, Holy Shock damage will be approximately equal.


The healing component of Holy Shock is unchanged.

 

[CripzBlood]

when is crusader strike and templar verdict coming back to the way it was on cataclysm? cuz now with 40%!! base resilience i see no reason why most of dps classes were nerfed.

 

[CripzBlood]

Blizzard speaks

yes they alot of classes to balance but they also have alot of employe´s... for each bracket i guess?

and even a blind men could see that the heals are healing way over any dps damage, less rogues, rogues dont need to do more dmg.

 

[Doreah]

The fact that they have even came out about doing something about lower class imbalances is a good sign.

 

[Mephisto]

I have hope..... especially since the buffed Explosive shots RaP modifier by 20%

 

[Mephisto]

I've looked at the Low level class balance and I see people are agreeing that Arms and fury DPS is too low (for all the brackets) and that the level requirement for Hamstring needs to be bumped down. Personally I would trade Execute for hamstring in a heartbeat... I rarely ever get to use it unless the person is at low hp for quite a while.

 

[rsq]

WTB a way to post on that thread.

 

[CripzBlood]

I've looked at the Low level class balance and I see people are agreeing that Arms and fury DPS is too low (for all the brackets) and that the level requirement for Hamstring needs to be bumped down. Personally I would trade Execute for hamstring in a heartbeat... I rarely ever get to use it unless the person is at low hp for quite a while.

today i got executed by lvl24 warr it did 2100dmg probably crit, and it was on my lvl24 pally Cripzbloody



i dont know why its so OP, if its only able to be used at 20% health, its like useless dmg.

correct me if im wrong pls, last time i played warrior was in WoLK.

 

[Ferro]

Game feels like a facebook app now - less specializing, less buttons, just spamming arcane shot for the most part. Heard it's similar for warlocks and other classes. Blizzard going casual once more, not a lot of fun.

Hunters cant nuke ppl left and right anymore making a bloody path, which is a good thing. But I'd have to say the game got so much more simple the way the talents work now. No more explosive shot, steady shot has little value and serpent is mostly useless unless you are fighting rouges/druids.

Healers have 2-3 the value of any dmg dealer right now, especially the ones that can dish dmg as well (Priests).

 

[Oniyui]

Game feels like a facebook app now - less specializing, less buttons, just spamming arcane shot for the most part. Heard it's similar for warlocks and other classes. Blizzard going casual once more, not a lot of fun.

Hunters cant nuke ppl left and right anymore making a bloody path, which is a good thing. But I'd have to say the game got so much more simple the way the talents work now. No more explosive shot, steady shot has little value and serpent is mostly useless unless you are fighting rouges/druids.

Healers have 2-3 the value of any dmg dealer right now, especially the ones that can dish dmg as well (Priests).

i think the bracket we're in was originally intended to ease into the game's learning curve, not be your endgame. I hear there's more buttons when you get to 85.

& healers should be able to survive 2-3 players if all they're doing is spamming dps like explosive shot, steady shot, and serpent sting. They should probably run out of mana eventually though... if a single dos can take out a healer, then the value of a healer is less than that of a dos player. If a single player can't take out a healer, then the dos player is not less valuable than that of the healer. The DPS should be able to get away just fine.

 

[Swoops]

Keep in mind that the lack of abilities on level 20s doesn't translate to higher levels. Very few abilities were actually removed from the game in this patch, but they did definitely push a lot to higher levels. It sucks at level 20, but it did smooth out the ability-learning curve a lot. I used to level 60 to 80 visiting a trainer once, when I transitioned from Outland to Northrend. Granted, that was mostly because I was too lazy to head back to Orgrimmar to visit a trainer (back when there weren't any in Shattrath/Dalaran), but I'd certainly make that trip if there was anything compelling to learn. I definitely did it to learn Mind Sear ("zomg shadow AoE!?").

These changes aren't pandering (Panda-ing?) to casuals, f2p's are just unfortunately stuck in a very inconvenient spot. Just look at the next 4 levels. Off the top of my head, I know that Rogue's get Gouge, Druids and Priests get a dispel, Fire Mages get Inferno Blast for reliable Pyroblast! procs, Shadow priests come into existence, Warriors get an interrupt, etc. A lot of those things were dropped down, making more classes/specs interesting for lower level characters.

In the eyes of 99%+ of the player base, the only difference between level 20 and 24 is an hour of questing. With the time that we've spent playing at level 20, its easy to overestimate its significance. Blizzard cares about low-level PvP being playable. With the feedback coming in, an additional blanket nerf to heals is possible. However, perfectly balancing the way individual classes interact with each other utility-wise in every possible bracket just isn't realistic with the way the game is designed.

Semi off-topic, but imo the new talent system is amazing. They replaced the illusion of choice with an actual choice. I swap my talents and glyphs around on a fight to fight basis, and its super easy to do. If I want to pvp after a raid, I don't need to do a full respec. I can swap a talent or two around and switch a glyph in the time it takes for a queue to pop. The new talents are mostly interesting spells that actually affect how you play. They shine in different situations and can be tailored to your playstyle. Its not implemented perfectly, not every choice is especially intriguing and there are some weak tiers here and there among the classes. They make your choices simpler, but your actual gameplay more complex. That's an excellent change.

 

[Doreah]

Looks like a fix to unlimited mana will be coming soon.


Lower-level Class Balance Issues & Solutions - Forums - World of Warcraft

would say the most common issue in this thread so far has been some variation of this:

I don't particularly mind the damage done by healers right now in PvP, with Holy Shock, Denounce or Penance. What I DO mind is the fact that they can spam these spells endlessly while mixing in Flash of Lights and bubbles and CC and NEVER go OOM. I've been doing some BGs with a couple different classes from 10-54...and I can't say that I've ever seen a player (including Mages, Locks, Shammies, and even Rets and SPriests that spam heals) drop below 50% mana. If even that low.

I'm not a huge PvPer, so take it with a grain of salt. But I think mana regen rates really need to be looked at.


We’re working on identifying some tweaks we can make that will address this without throwing everything else off-kilter. Stay tuned.

 

[youakim]

Game feels like a facebook app now - less specializing, less buttons, just spamming arcane shot for the most part. Heard it's similar for warlocks and other classes. Blizzard going casual once more, not a lot of fun... But I'd have to say the game got so much more simple the way the talents work now. No more explosive shot, steady shot has little value and serpent is mostly useless unless you are fighting rouges/druids.

Explosive shot wasn't fun at all, steady shot has some value and serpent sting was never used for anything except fighting rogues/druids. Hunters have MORE (both in number and in complexity) buttons now than they did in Cata, you just have to look in your pet's spellbook.

 

[Ferro]

Explosive shot wasn't fun at all, steady shot has some value and serpent sting was never used for anything except fighting rogues/druids. Hunters have MORE (both in number and in complexity) buttons now than they did in Cata, you just have to look in your pet's spellbook.

I never said explosive shot was fun, though it was powerful, so that's -1.

You're wrong about Serpent sting as well. Improved Serpent Sting added initial damage and crit chance to Serpent Sting, which made it a moderately high damage per focus shot that was worth spreading onto many targets. With this talent, the first tick broke even with arcane shot damage, and the second and subsequent ticks surpassed arcane shot. -2

We now have a few pet gimmicks to help out teammates and the engage is pretty op now too. But altogether, I find the impact of the hunter much more reduced (not surprisingly) than I had hoped for. Of course before, they were op. Spamming arcane shot is very dull. If mana cost gets raised things might feel better hopefully.

 

[iaccidentallytwink]

rouge

How fitting that in a post where you complain about hunters being useless because of their low damage (both of which are wrong), you spell rouge like a 5 year old who just started playing. lmao.

I never said explosive shot was fun, though it was powerful, so that's -1.

You're wrong about Serpent sting as well. Improved Serpent Sting added initial damage and crit chance to Serpent Sting, which made it a moderately high damage per focus shot that was worth spreading onto many targets. With this talent, the first tick broke even with arcane shot damage, and the second and subsequent ticks surpassed arcane shot. -2

We now have a few pet gimmicks to help out teammates and the engage is pretty op now too. But altogether, I find the impact of the hunter much more reduced (not surprisingly) than I had hoped for. Of course before, they were op. Spamming arcane shot is very dull. If mana cost gets raised things might feel better hopefully.

Nigga what? Hunters are better now than they have ever been in the bracket.

 

[Ferro]

How fitting that in a post where you complain about hunters being useless because of their low damage (both of which are wrong), you spell rouge like a 5 year old who just started playing. lmao.



Nigga what? Hunters are better now than they have ever been in the bracket.

I think you might want to get tested for trisomy 21. I complained about the way blizzard keeps simplifying things and that I don't like it. It's my opinion and just like assholes everyone has one, right?

Also, you write like a no-life crackhead. Go play 25 troll.

 

[youakim]

I never said explosive shot was fun, though it was powerful, so that's -1.

Yes, it was ridiculously powerful. That's because it was an incredibly stupidly scaling ability that did imbalanced amounts of damage. You're complaining about simplification, but now you just use arcane shot instead of explosive shot constantly.

You're wrong about Serpent sting as well. Improved Serpent Sting added initial damage and crit chance to Serpent Sting, which made it a moderately high damage per focus shot that was worth spreading onto many targets. With this talent, the first tick broke even with arcane shot damage, and the second and subsequent ticks surpassed arcane shot. -2

I've always played BM. Why? Because survival was SIMPLE AND BORING. It was literally just spam (mostly) instant casts from range, with little to no impact from controlling and positioning your pet. Survival (and cata hunters in general, though bm with int gear was fun) was a boring snoozefest and I still can't understand how people played it.

We now have a few pet gimmicks to help out teammates and the engage is pretty op now too. But altogether, I find the impact of the hunter much more reduced (not surprisingly) than I had hoped for. Of course before, they were op. Spamming arcane shot is very dull. If mana cost gets raised things might feel better hopefully.

Hunters feel perfect right now, you're just too used to being an op wrecking ball that has the best cc and best dps at the same time.

 

[inoobupro]

lool explosive shot stupidly powerful.Says the priest.It used to take 2+hunters in cata just to kill a healer. Now we just have to wait till MoP and see but
Right now devouring plauge crits 1000 on average and mindblsat crits 400

Take a look at this 766 with ALL my cds popped(inculding astral shift 40%dmg reduction)thats 80% dmg reduction and hes critting

View attachment 316
and that rouge didnt even have berzerking or wasnt buffed.
Only priests rouges and druids are playable in this bracket atm.And paladins.

 

[yasueh]

By far, most of our effort is currently on level-90 balance, because that’s what’s important to most players.

It doesn't take a genius to realise that maybe if Blizzard put more effort into low level balance, then maybe more players would take part in low level PvP.

Unfortunately, and as usual, they're making piss-poor excuses. They're actually the cause for having most players focus on endgame, because they wouldn't do a damn thing for low levels for so long.

Maybe if they'd made use of the same normalisation across levels in a BG bracket, that has been used in RIFT and Warhammer, they wouldn't have needed to split the brackets from x0-x9 into x0-x4 and x5-x9, which made queues longer, and didn't do much of anything to reduce the main problem with having a range of levels in a bracket, which is the top half spends every game farming the bottom half, with no challenge, while the bottom half are the ones getting farmed. RIFT may not have had perfect class balance (in large part thanks to it's hugely complicated talents), but level difference was far less of a problem, because everyone was boosted up to the same level.

Something else RIFT has got right (after a ton of complaints on forums, that at least got listened to, unlike the same complaints made in WoW), is that they've gone further in limiting the difference in gear between the average leveller, and a twink in the bracket, by making sure that item enhancements have much stricter level requirements than those in WoW. Meanwhile Blizzard are releasing yet more heirlooms, that can take enchants intended for level 60s. I'm sure the whole of the F2P community could see the effect limiting 24s to level 30 enchants would have on the popularity of this bracket.

And finally, if Blizzard had actually made these efforts, limiting the huge disparity between what twinks can do, compared to what the average leveller can reasonably be expected to do, they might never have needed to split off XP locked characters into their own queues, which ultimately pissed off the huge majority of players who actually had an interest in low level PvP, by denying them the ability to take part in it.