70-79 Level 70 PvE BiS Gear Compendium

Not to be a jerk, but I thought this list was for Best in Slot items. Even your own math has now confirmed it technically is an upgrade.
 
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Symandria said:
Not to be a jerk, but I thought this list was for Best in Slot items. Even your own math has now confirmed it technically is an upgrade.
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But it's not.

You said ''what if we ignore the error margin'' so that's what I gave you. What it would give if you ignored that the amount it ''increases'' your dps is offset by the error margin. If you ignore the error margin, it's not a difference anyone would be able to actually make use of. If you take the error margin into account, it just simply isn't an increase.

Instead, you should look at other items that have similar stat increases without a 2-ilvl loss. Like perhaps we should look at http://www.wowhead.com/item=32239/slippers-of-the-seacaller because I have a feeling that will be a tangible increase.
 
Running a sim on those boots, the DPS difference is actually very noticeable. Over 1.5% extra damage.

So perhaps you want to equip those first :)

And then as you pointed out, ilvl becomes stronger so that already non-existant boost for the belt might even become a non-existant loss :)
 
Symandria said:
TBH I've tried a ton of fights solo where survivability isn't just important it's life or death. My pet doesn't tank, there is no healer behind me. And time and time again I've gone back to shimmer, on the hard fights I tried switching (especially when a stun was involved and I could blink out of it) to the extra 11% damage reduction and shield, what I found was as a squishy mage it just didn't matter you needed to not be hit by baddies or things go bad super fast.
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But you're talking about soloing content where kiting is important rofl. I'm talking about a raid setting of 3-5 people trying to clear t6 content.
Onlydreams said:
you should change talents depending on the fight
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Happypanda said:
Has anyone tested the Spellfire & Whitemends set bonus vs BiS?

or the Band of the Eternal Sage + Band of the Eternal Restorer + Shattered Sun Pendant of Acumen vs BiS?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding-hollow/Poppems/advanced
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Whitemend is considered ''ok'', but not as good as just having two Sunwell pieces. It's funny because you lose a huge amount of avg ilvl, and it's still ''ok''. Really shows just how broken the set bonus is.

Spellfire is worse than Whitemend so yeah.

Shattered Sun Pendant is too much of an ilvl drop to be worth considering. The proc rings are already not -that- amazing compared to the static ones, and they have an almost equal ilvl. The Necklace makes you lose 3 avg ilvls for a similar proc, so it's not worth it.
 
Have you done a sim comparison for feral/guardian on

http://www.wowhead.com/item=34198/stanchion-of-primal-instinct vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=34183/shivering-felspine ?

Same item level and primary stats. (if you gem agility in Felspine)
However-
21crit on Stanchion
vs
22haste + 0.05 weapon dps on Felspine

Do you count crit as x2 stats for guardian as you get dodge from crit?

Not sure of stat weights for 70s apart from your comment about being hard to prove one stat superiority over another. So on paper the Felspine has more stats unless crit outweigh's haste in a sim I guess?

Interested on your thoughts.

I have bis gear apart from neck that I should get soon, then it's just a matter of updating gems and enchants and should be able to sim myself depending on how hard it is for me to use.

I Have only used Chardev in the past and it sounds a lot more complicated then that.



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Chey said:
Have you done a sim comparison for feral/guardian on

http://www.wowhead.com/item=34198/stanchion-of-primal-instinct vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=34183/shivering-felspine ?

Same item level and primary stats. (if you gem agility in Felspine)
However-
21crit on Stanchion
vs
22haste + 0.05 weapon dps on Felspine

Do you count crit as x2 stats for guardian as you get dodge from crit?

Not sure of stat weights for 70s apart from your comment about being hard to prove one stat superiority over another. So on paper the Felspine has more stats unless crit outweigh's haste in a sim I guess?

Interested on your thoughts.

I have bis gear apart from neck that I should get soon, then it's just a matter of updating gems and enchants and should be able to sim myself depending on how hard it is for me to use.

I Have only used Chardev in the past and it sounds a lot more complicated then that.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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weapon damage is irrelevant for druids so that weapon damage increase doesn't matter; and haste is worse than crit for both Feral and Guardian (conjecture) so Felspine just isn't as good as Stanchion. That's why we list Stanchion. The redeeming factor for Felspine is the +2ap from the socket bonus. I'll run some sims on it. For Feral that is. Guardian just wants crit because it doubles as avoidance.
 
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hey fx, did you know that a fury warrior can equip a slower, lower item lvl weapon in the mh and not loose any ilvls?

edit: also for ww monk, i see a 155 belt and deadly cuffs, would you not gain more by switching that for the 154 pvp bracers and don alejandro 's belt?

and i see alot of blackened shard x eng trink... but you lose 3 ilvls by going with the shard instead of 2x eng trink... is it really worth it?
 
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Would like to suggest for Brewmaster and Guardian that http://www.wowhead.com/item=34385/leggings-of-the-immortal-beast is better than
http://www.wowhead.com/item=34188/leggings-of-the-immortal-night

My interpretation of BiS;
An item in a slot that contains the most amount of beneficial stat values for your class/spec.

The way I determine the stat values;
I have always used the gem values as the basis of my formula.
Why?
We can't change the stats on our gear so we use enchants and gems to gain more of a desired stat. You will find that bis enchant options are more or less consistent with the below gem values.

( X) Gem Main stats (agility, strength, intellect) are 10 per gem. (AP has about the same worth, but slightly less for some specs)
(Y) (Stamina) are 16 per gem.
(Z) Gem Secondary Stats (crit, haste, versatility) are 20 per gem.

Given this information I determine the worth of a stat using (Z) as my base because it has the highest amount per gem (excluding JC)

20/10 = 2 (X) has a net value of 2
20/16 = 1.25 (Y) has a net value of 1.25
20/20 = 1 (Z) has a net value of 1

Comparing the two http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=34385.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0;34188.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 (same ilvl and socket bonus) we can see Beast gains are 8stam vs Night gains 2agil, 2crit and 3haste.

Beast
8x(Y) = 10

Night
2x(X) = 4
2x(Y) = 2
3x(Y) = 3
Total = 9

Beast has 1 additional beneficial stat value for Brew/Gaurdian so would beast not be BiS for those specs?

edit:
Upon reflection the choice is subjective. Depends on how you gem/enchant the rest of your gear.

For Guardian Druid (my class)

An example of Beast > Night.
For a rounded build If you are using at least one http://www.wowhead.com/item=32286/design-solid-empyrean-sapphire gem with Night legs and then swap out for http://www.wowhead.com/item=46901/design-jagged-eye-of-zul with Beast legs.

You loose 2agility and 3haste, but you gain 1stam and 8crit which is better for Bear tank.

An example of Night > Beast.
For a dps/avoidance build (not recommend) and you are using full crit gems or agility gems and enchants obviously you don't want the stam so are loosing the 2agil, 2crit and 3haste.

My conclusion is that tank BiS is a lot more complicated than dps is. I doubt you could run sims for every possible enchant and gem choice for a "best" option because of all the variables including how many in your group, their gear/dps output and your healers gear/hps.

I maintain this guide is awesome and my small attempt at one slot shows me just how much work you guys have put into this!
 
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Chey said:
Would like to suggest for Brewmaster and Guardian that http://www.wowhead.com/item=34385/leggings-of-the-immortal-beast is better than
http://www.wowhead.com/item=34188/leggings-of-the-immortal-night
My interpretation of BiS;
An item in a slot that contains the most amount of beneficial stat values for your class/spec.

The way I determine the stat values;
I have always used the gem values as the basis of my formula.
Why?
We can't change the stats on our gear so we use enchants and gems to gain more of a desired stat. You will find that bis enchant options are more or less consistent with the below gem values.

( X) Gem Main stats (agility, strength, intellect) are 10 per gem. (AP has about the same worth, but slightly less for some specs)
(Y) (Stamina) are 16 per gem.
(Z) Gem Secondary Stats (crit, haste, versatility) are 20 per gem.

Given this information I determine the worth of a stat using (Z) as my base because it has the highest amount per gem (excluding JC)

20/10 = 2 (X) has a net value of 2
20/16 = 1.25 (Y) has a net value of 1.25
20/20 = 1 (Z) has a net value of 1

Comparing the two http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items=34385.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0;34188.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0 (same ilvl and socket bonus) we can see Beast gains are 8stam vs Night gains 2agil, 2crit and 3haste.

Beast
8x(Y) = 10

Night
2x(X) = 4
2x(Y) = 2
3x(Y) = 3
Total = 9

Beast has 1 additional beneficial stat value for Brew/Gaurdian so would beast not be BiS for those specs?

edit:
Upon reflection the choice is subjective. Depends on how you gem/enchant the rest of your gear.

For Guardian Druid (my class)

An example of Beast > Night.
For a rounded build If you are using at least one http://www.wowhead.com/item=32286/design-solid-empyrean-sapphire gem with Night legs and then swap out for http://www.wowhead.com/item=46901/design-jagged-eye-of-zul with Beast legs.

You loose 2agility and 3haste, but you gain 1stam and 8crit which is better for Bear tank.

An example of Night > Beast.
For a dps/avoidance build (not recommend) and you are using full crit gems or agility gems and enchants obviously you don't want the stam so are loosing the 2agil, 2crit and 3haste.

My conclusion is that tank BiS is a lot more complicated than dps is. I doubt you could run sims for every possible enchant and gem choice for a "best" option because of all the variables including how many in your group, their gear/dps output and your healers gear/hps.

I maintain this guide is awesome and my small attempt at one slot shows me just how much work you guys have put into this!
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Stamina is useless once you have ~30-35k health and you easily get there without gemming stamina. Also, you can't just compare the amount of stats on gems like that, stats have different weights for different specs. With your method Crit and Haste would be equal, when they clearly aren't for the majority of specs in the game. For example Guardian Druid values crit WAY higher than haste because crit also functions as avoidance.

In a similar sense, stamina isn't valued highly by any of the tank specs, because once you get past a certain amount (roughly 35k, it depends on the spec) it literally does nothing for you. The strongest bosses hit you for maybe 10-15k so you really don't need more health than double that.
 
Fx said:
Stamina is useless once you have ~30-35k health and you easily get there without gemming stamina.
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Fair enough, my current raiding experience is with solo Kara runs so I based my comments off the guardian Druid in your videos and they are using multiple stam gems so idk.

Fx said:
Also, you can't just compare the amount of stats on gems like that, stats have different weights for different specs
Click to expand...

Yes exactly but the weights will also change depending on your gear and how much of a particular stat you have already. The gem method is just a good starting point because you know how much you can exchange or change around for the same 'cost' or slot so to speak.

Fx said:
With your method Crit and Haste would be equal, when they clearly aren't for the majority of specs in the game. For example Guardian Druid values crit WAY higher than haste because crit also functions as avoidance.
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I understand this. I know also for example that it takes more crit rating to reach 1% crit than it dose haste rating for 1% haste.

Crit is not as good as you think for guardian, as a rule it is the worst stat for 110 and I understand 70 is different.
I tried this crit build and discovered why it's stat weight is so low at max level. I have about 46% crit that gives me around 25% dodge.
Dodge suffers from diminishing returns and if you check your logs you will see at 25% dodge you will only actually dodge around 8-11% of physical damage.
Over the last few weeks I have tried different builds for Prince Malchezaar solo Kills and by far the easiest was a versatility build. I just took slightly longer because dps was not as high. It was no where near as crutch as the other attempts.
Most of his damage is physical so for a purely damage reducing aspect stacking crit is not as good as versa.
I will be trying an agility/versa build this week.

Fx said:
In a similar sense, stamina isn't valued highly by any of the tank specs, because once you get past a certain amount (roughly 35k, it depends on the spec) it literally does nothing for you
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I know this list is for small raid groups and not soloing so I will take your word for it. Just thought it could be useful for larger trash pulling.
 
Chey said:
Over the last few weeks I have tried different builds for Prince Malchezaar solo Kills and by far the easiest was a versatility build. I just took slightly longer because dps was not as high. It was no where near as crutch as the other attempts.
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Indeed we have been moving towards vers builds in general as well. There's simply just a lot more magic damage in TBC encounters over all than damage from melee swings.
We also found that avoidance can be directly detrimental on Mother Shahraz (one of the biggest tank check encounters) because avoiding a saber lash dumps all the damage on the remaining tank(s).
 
my prot pally uses full vers gems, sitting at 30%/15% vers atm, and it feels super sturdy.
also the only class i can say 100% will want to keep the blackened sliver is fury warrior(and maby arms). because when you see it proc, you hit whirlwind 1 time and its at 10/10 for the entire duration. most other classes have a ramp up time, so you tend to only get about 10 ish seconds with the full power.

edit: i would also consider looking into switching fury warrior's mh to any of the slower ones with lower item lvl. (i havent done any testing yet, so i cant give any numbers) my warr has a world breaker in the mh and is still 164.18/164.5
 
Zoke said:
my prot pally uses full vers gems, sitting at 30%/15% vers atm, and it feels super sturdy.
also the only class i can say 100% will want to keep the blackened sliver is fury warrior(and maby arms). because when you see it proc, you hit whirlwind 1 time and its at 10/10 for the entire duration. most other classes have a ramp up time, so you tend to only get about 10 ish seconds with the full power.
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Ramp time is indeed the main concern with the sliver. A couple of things to keep in mind: most TBC encounters are fairly short even with very small raid groups. Usually we're talking 1-3 minute fights which means relatively high uptime on bloodlust. A sliver proc during bloodlust obviously ramps way faster.
Also, as you can see reflected in the compendium, dual wield classes ramp up the naaru sliver way faster than 2H classes. My assassination rogue stacks it fully in 2 globals outside of BL.

The only spec in the compendium I see as potentially showing the wrong trinket is survival hunter. I know for a fact we haven't simmed or tested sliver vs generator on survival hunter, so I'm assuming @Fx just put it there because it's what my hunter is wearing. I'll probably change to a lightning generator though.
 
wait you think feral is better with sliver x gen than 2x gen?.

edit: also for blood fx has boots of the unbowed protector > myrmidons? (2 gem sockets vs0) while also having dread boots of the legion for both uh and frost instead of the dps verson of those blue boots. curious why that is
 
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Zoke said:
wait you think feral is better with sliver x gen than 2x gen?.

edit: also for blood fx has boots of the unbowed protector > myrmidons? (2 gem sockets vs0) while also having dread boots of the legion for both uh and frost instead of the dps verson of those blue boots. curious why that is
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No idea about feral. Do you know how fast it stacks roughly?
 
Onlydreams said:
No idea about feral. Do you know how fast it stacks roughly?
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would be fast, 1sec normalized attacks in cat but with the un-avoidable haste on gear will be under that plus a couple of globals I can test tonight. Would say it would be at least 14secs full up time.

The problem is do you clip moonfire, rake and rip if they are already up or bite to early and possibly sacrifice down time on dots or just use on shreds and one bleed....

you get the idea anyway, very RNG for feral rotation.
 
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